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Old 03-29-2012, 02:31 AM   #1
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Default New motor with not start

After about 4 hours of trouble shooting im lost.

Its a 90 miata that i just rebuild a new motor and dropped it in.

I have compression, i have fuel, i have spark, i have air...... so very lost

It will just sit there and crank not even a shudder or attempt to fire.

Every wire i can find is plugged up. I only have one ground strap on the motor (friend said his 350 wouldn't start until he added a ground strap.)

I did the COP but the wiring matches the thread and all the coil packs spark to the block so im guessing that means the coils work.

i have no idea why i don't get anything just cranking.

im about 99% sure the timing is right i used the FSM to set the timming.

ONLY odd thing at the moment is i can't get a timing light to work. i jumped a spark plug wire off the cly 1 into the block and i can only get the timing light to blink once when you start cranking then once when you stop cranking but the plug is still firing.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:39 AM   #2
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Pictures of valve cover off with your crank at TDC and the cam gears in the correct position so we can verify that your timing is correct.

Also what EMS are you using? Is it possible that settings in there are wrong if you are not on a stock ecu?
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:00 AM   #3
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Also, what method did you use to determine "I have fuel"?
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Pictures of valve cover off with your crank at TDC and the cam gears in the correct position so we can verify that your timing is correct.

Also what EMS are you using? Is it possible that settings in there are wrong if you are not on a stock ecu?
Ill get the crank pic maybe tonight

Stock EMS


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Also, what method did you use to determine "I have fuel"?
pull a spark plug crank the motor and you smell gas up out of the cyl
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:16 AM   #5
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So re reading the COP set up thread.

the 10,000UF capacitors are listed at "optional required" so do i have to have them?
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:44 AM   #6
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Have you tried moving the CPS?
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:58 AM   #7
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Have you tried moving the CPS?
i switched cly 1-2 and 3-4 wondering if i got the wiring backwards and still nothing
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiesoup View Post
i switched cly 1-2 and 3-4 wondering if i got the wiring backwards and still nothing
I meant the cam position sensor on the back of the motor. It's the thing that actually sets your timing. Also, you need the big ground strap hooked up near the exhaust header (the OE one).
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Old 03-29-2012, 01:36 PM   #9
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Not quite sure whats wrong, but I'm here in Blacksburg if you want another set of eyes and ears on the motor.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
I meant the cam position sensor on the back of the motor. It's the thing that actually sets your timing. Also, you need the big ground strap hooked up near the exhaust header (the OE one).
thats what i get for read it early in the morning i read COP not CPS yes i rotated it to both extremes slowly while cranking

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Originally Posted by petrolmed View Post
Not quite sure whats wrong, but I'm here in Blacksburg if you want another set of eyes and ears on the motor.
heck ya man PMin you my number taking today off work to get my truck fix (go figure it broke lastnight too) then i should be working on the miata by 2pm and most of the evening.
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:06 PM   #11
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^opps i was signed into my friends account
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Old 03-29-2012, 02:18 PM   #12
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Cops with the stock ecu might become iffy after a while because of the dwell times.

If you have fuel, and you have spark, it has to be a timing issue.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:18 PM   #13
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Okay well after a day or working on it i think i kinda made progress.

swapped back to OEM ignition stuff still doesn't start.

checked timing belt and its right at TDC the intake and exaust cam marks are vertical and the ones that point down and to the inside are lined up dead on with those bends in the backing plate and the letter match.

so Physical timing is right.

As far as cam angle i have no idea i just put it half way and figured its close enough to get a studder.

DEF have fuel i cam smell it out the back and it doesnt start on starting fluid either.

so i think i can pretty well say its spark

i have spark on all 4 cyl when i have the spark plug wire out of the block. but the timming light doesn't work. IF it does it flashes once when i start cranking then never again. i tried the timming light on my truck works fine.

so im kinda at the point that i think i have super week spark..... not sure why i have week spark on the COPs and on OEM set up.

any thoughts?

Block is DEF grounded check and i get a good ground signal touching the valve cover to any unpainted surface.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:46 PM   #14
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Pic of cams with valve cover off.
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Old 03-29-2012, 10:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowihss View Post
Pic of cams with valve cover off.
This. We do not accept you just telling us the timing belt is correct. Without a picture we will not believe you.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:49 PM   #16
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K well if i ever take it off again i will try and clean my hands up to use my phone but it matches the OEM service manual. and its not the first motor i have built.

Just the first with electrical problems.
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Old 03-29-2012, 11:55 PM   #17
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Thats merging my old Subie harness



The motor i build

Attached Thumbnails
New motor with not start-dscn0157.jpg   New motor with not start-dscn0183.jpg   New motor with not start-img_1482.jpg  
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:22 AM   #18
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At least take a pic of the cam gears while the crank is at TDC.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:49 AM   #19
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My money says the cams are 180 out. Crack the throttle body and see what happens, if it pops and sputters, it's definitely out. Ask me how I know.
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Old 03-30-2012, 04:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookiesoup View Post
K well
After the number of people who have gotten the cam setup wrong, we would tell a Ferrari mechanic to take pictures of the cams. Pull the VC and take a picture.
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