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Old 03-19-2008, 03:33 PM   #1
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Default New Tein Tophats (Information & Feedback)



Tein Tophats
- Single Piece (6061 Aluminum)
- Accepts the Entire Diameter of The Coilover
- Oversized Aurora Spherical Bearing
- Grade 8 Installation Hardware

Optional:
- 22mm Ohlins Bumpstops

Finshes:
- Machined
- Fully Polished (additional)
- Anodized (additional; few select colors)

General Information:
Replace multiple parts with just three (one reused part from Tein) on the Basics & SS, and will be a direct swap for the Flex's. They should be compatible with numerous other Tein coilover systems as well as other manufactures but since they're still in testing I don't have a defiant list.

Tophats feature Aurora teflon lined spherical bearings for better suspension response and assist in any mis-alignment in the shocks when the suspension travels. Using this bearing also allows the chassis-to-spring seat area to be a lot shorter; thus lowering the car (.7" to be exact; equals .5" drop). We'll be adding additional add-ons such as 6061-spacers in .25" increments so that you can fill the tolerance back up to what it was originally or be somewhere in-between. Either way you will still retain the same added shock travel.

In addition to the tophats I've spent hours on the phone collaborating on a new-shorter bumpstop option to pair with them. As time proceeds we may run across a better option but what we have now should and seems to be the sweet spot. Stock Tein bumpstops are nearly 55mm long and are fairly squishy; we have added Ohlins 22mm progressive bumpstops with a slightly higher durometer reading than the Teins and have the best compression curve of any bumpstop it's height.

---------------------------

All-in-All I wanted to produce a tophat that improved suspension travel effectively, performed better, looked good, and won't break the bank. As I don't have an exactly release date (in testing) I'm not sure if any other modifications with be needed (at this point it looks good) I don't have an exact price but should be around $200 for a pair. Wanted to be cheaper but using the best in materials, bearings, and hardware add up quick.

Heights are still being played around with slightly. The height of the cap will determine how much travel you will gain in addition to the bumpstops (if you decide to purchase & use them). We could make them super tall (w/slight trunk modification) but can the shock even provide that much travel? The other thing that comes into play is if there so tall; they still have to mount in the same location you would have to preload them against the springs in order to install them. Most ppl wouldn't want this. So there is a fine line with make them too tall or too short. In the end will find the best combo and offer 2 or 3 different height tophats so that you can purchase them for the best application.

Added Suspension Travel (as tested w/out Bumpstops): 1.3" w/.5" drop
Added Supension Travel (as tested w/out Bumpstops): 1.8" (coilovers adjusted .5" to retain same ride height as pre-installation)

Added Suspension Travel (as tested w/Bumpstops): 2.5" w/.5" drop
Added Supension Travel (as tested w/Bumpstops): 3" (coilovers adjusted .5" to retain same ride height as pre-installation)

Feedback....





Big thanks to chriscar, slutz, & the snowboarder for there help with this project!
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:03 PM   #2
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do you think those will fit on illuminas? where can i buy them?
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:40 PM   #3
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do you think those will fit on illuminas? where can i buy them?
Were working on expanding the applications. What type of springs are you running & are they progressive?
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:58 PM   #4
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fm springs
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:02 PM   #5
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just one question... if the FLEX come with top hats, why do I need new top hats?
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:20 PM   #6
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I was wondering this too. I'm curious to know how much more bump travel you'd gain with this setup without running into droop travel problems (how much is there to be gainde with the Flex). i.e would it be worth it for the flex when a little preload/stiffer springs/ or shorter bumpstops might suffice.
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:41 PM   #7
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you'd gain no bump travel. as the FLEX are, you can shorten the shock body enough to put a 195/50/15 tire into the fender.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:06 PM   #8
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you'd gain no bump travel. as the FLEX are, you can shorten the shock body enough to put a 195/50/15 tire into the fender.
From what i understand with the bottom mount bottomed out as low as it will go you can acheive somewhere around 12". From there you have to move the spring from a seated position to adjusting it downwards to get more drop. 11.5". 11.5" is zero wheel gap with 205/50/15's and 11.25-11.35" is zero wheel gap with 195/50/15's or 225/45/15's.

Any negative preload from adjusting the spring down will be a gain and fix with these tophats. You won't see as great of gains on the tein flex due to the fact the tophats are already alot thiner than a stock hat would be. Unlike the basic's and SS which use stock hats these hats are .7" thiner which means the car will drop .5". You can adjust the car back to the ride height you were at with the stock hats and will gain that .7" in shock travel.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:09 PM   #9
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Here are the prototype photos for more angled shots. Same design just shorter.

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Old 03-19-2008, 09:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danscreations View Post
From what i understand with the bottom mount bottomed out as low as it will go you can acheive somewhere around 12". From there you have to move the spring from a seated position to adjusting it downwards to get more drop. 11.5". 11.5" is zero wheel gap with 205/50/15's and 11.25-11.35" is zero wheel gap with 195/50/15's or 225/45/15's.

Any negative preload from adjusting the spring down will be a gain and fix with these tophats. You won't see as great of gains on the tein flex due to the fact the tophats are already alot thiner than a stock hat would be. Unlike the basic's and SS which use stock hats these hats are .7" thiner which means the car will drop .5". You can adjust the car back to the ride height you were at with the stock hats and will gain that .7" in shock travel.
there's been lots of debates on how to adjust the flex on miata.net. i'm in the camp of "set the length so that at full compression, the wheel doesn't rub". Once you do that, you should *never* have to change the shock length. If you want to change ride height, you move the spring collar. That way you always have maximum bump travel. You wont bottom out as easily.

so unless your shocks are so long that you have awesome bump and rebound travel, there's no reason to move the top mount up.

That said, it'd probably work well with stock length shocks--like the unshortened bilsteins.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:36 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
there's been lots of debates on how to adjust the flex on miata.net. i'm in the camp of "set the length so that at full compression, the wheel doesn't rub". Once you do that, you should *never* have to change the shock length. If you want to change ride height, you move the spring collar. That way you always have maximum bump travel. You wont bottom out as easily.

so unless your shocks are so long that you have awesome bump and rebound travel, there's no reason to move the top mount up.

That said, it'd probably work well with stock length shocks--like the unshortened bilsteins.
Exactly! After your setting your length; If...you adjust the spring collars to adjust your ride height lower (as it seems most ppl are) this is creating negative preload. You’re loosing shock travel due to adjusting the collars downward. These tophats will allow you to do that while giving you all your shock travel back. On the basics and SS you have to adjust the collars to do anything with ride height so the tophats are even more beneficial.
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Old 03-19-2008, 11:06 PM   #12
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You dont lose shock travel. that's a fixed value. set by the shaft length. cannot be changed.

i mean what good is having MORE bump travel if you can already put the wheel into the fender til it rubs?
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:22 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
You dont lose shock travel. that's a fixed value. set by the shaft length. cannot be changed.

i mean what good is having MORE bump travel if you can already put the wheel into the fender til it rubs?
Yes the shock travel is a fixed value but you do lose "useable" shock travel with negative preload. You lower the spring collars an 1" and that 1" of "useable" shock travel is lost due to the fact there is no spring there to support the car for that 1". These keep you from loosing in that area!

Were beating a dead horse here...and could go on forever. I'm looking for someone close to me that has a set of flexs so we can do more R&D for the Flexes specificly and get everything dialed in.

I have basics on my car now and I've been testing a pair of tophats for 4 days now it a night a day difference. Actually way better than I would have thought. Again with the basic's there will be more benifit from these Tophats. Went from having 2-3mm of "useable" shock travel until the tein bumpstops and now I have ruffly 2.75-3" of "useable" shock travel w/the Ohlins bumpstops. Which my wheels and tires WILL not bottom out on the wheel wells before hitting the bumpstops on the shocks. Might be slightly different on the Flexes due to the fact you can shorten the coilovers total length but the concept of retaining any lost shock travel due to negative preload is exactly the same.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:28 AM   #14
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For the price, I wouldn't produce these. Besides already having similar products on the market, they're really not a complete solution. Even the stock hat maintains an equal shock and spring angle (as an assembly). The spherical bearing is nice, but what good is it if you've got the upper spring seat fixed - you'll actually have the spring combined with the chassis load "fighting" the shock movement. (you asked )
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Old 03-20-2008, 02:09 PM   #15
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For the price, I wouldn't produce these. Besides already having similar products on the market, they're really not a complete solution. Even the stock hat maintains an equal shock and spring angle (as an assembly). The spherical bearing is nice, but what good is it if you've got the upper spring seat fixed - you'll actually have the spring combined with the chassis load "fighting" the shock movement. (you asked )
Agreed, thats one trade off! The bearing doesn't take anything to move but you'd be in the same boat with stock tein tophats as well.
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Old 03-20-2008, 03:06 PM   #16
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doesnt fatcat make new tops already?
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:03 PM   #17
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You know Im game for a set for the rear of my car
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Old 03-25-2008, 05:44 PM   #18
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You know Im game for a set for the rear of my car
Soon...Soon...My car rides awesome now; makes me happy!
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Old 04-16-2008, 01:33 AM   #19
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We've made alot of headway in the last week or so; working on the project on the side outside of my real job. Took some photos this weekend but only have a few edited; will have more edited and posted in the next few days. Enjoy!

Also the site is complete however untill I'm 100% satisfied with these and have all the data I need we're limiting orders. Good thing most of it is limited to forum members :-) www.DP6061.com





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Old 04-16-2008, 01:58 AM   #20
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Ide be happy to test fit them on my 90 with 6k rear springs at a 12.0 hub to fender gap. On my flex's i have the shock body shortened as much as possible with the spring "preload" setting its ride height. Im about 2.0 of droop travel, right there on the boarder of being on the bumps all day, yet i only feel them on the freeway on hard bumps.
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