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Old 02-04-2008, 09:51 PM   #21
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I'll take a chalupa, as long as its not made with chihuahua.
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Old 02-04-2008, 10:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
would something similar in a -6an be better? i actually just wanted a teeny-tiny 6row to mount under the a/c dryer.
Just forget about -6AN. You'll kill your oil flow/pressure. Go with -10AN hoses & fittings.
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:05 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by j_man View Post
Just forget about -6AN. You'll kill your oil flow/pressure. Go with -10AN hoses & fittings.
Yeah, when I ran oil/air I actually did my whole setup twice- one with -8AN and a couple of machined elbows, then a second time with -10AN and all formed elbows. The first setup netted me a 10 PSI drop. The second setup had minimal drop, but I had to climb Mt. Palomar under boost to get the oil temp up to 180.


Mach929, this is an interesting question, and one surrounded by not much fact. The most plausible explanations I have heard are:
1- The oil needs to be operated at or above the boiling point of water, in order to keep it free of moisture.
2- The oil actually lubricates most efficiently at a temperature which is just short of its breakdown point.
3- Since we don't actually know the breakdown point of most oils (its different from the flash point) it's generally safe to operate a synthetic oil in the low 200s say, 220F to 250F.
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Old 02-05-2008, 11:31 AM   #24
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So.. I mean I see the need for a thermostat, especially when dealing with "overcooling" but what about using a straight sandwich plate combined with a tiny cooler? Something that will not pose a threat of getting "too cool", but will still moderate to some point. I see OEM GSXR 750 coolers selling for like 20 bucks, and they seem to be about that size.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2005-...spagenameZWDVW
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:26 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Newbsauce View Post
So.. I mean I see the need for a thermostat, especially when dealing with "overcooling" but what about using a straight sandwich plate combined with a tiny cooler?
Newb, the cooler that I had was the smallest one that Earl's makes. It was narrower than the one on my SV650. And even with a Mocal thermostat plate I still never got it above 180 in town.
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Newb, the cooler that I had was the smallest one that Earl's makes. It was narrower than the one on my SV650. And even with a Mocal thermostat plate I still never got it above 180 in town.
Well. This makes me worried. I have the same mocal.

It would be nice to have it setup so you could turn the oil cooler flow off with a ball valve for daily driving and then open it up for the track. Can't do that with the mocal though because if you turned off the flow to the cooler soon as the oil reached temp it would block the bypass hole and you'd be screwed.
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Old 02-05-2008, 04:51 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
It would be nice to have it setup so you could turn the oil cooler flow off with a ball valve for daily driving and then open it up for the track. Can't do that with the mocal though because if you turned off the flow to the cooler soon as the oil reached temp it would block the bypass hole and you'd be screwed.
You could. It would take two valves. One in series with the path through the cooler, and one which bypasses the cooler loop before the first valve. One of the two would always be closed, the other open. It would not be entirely idiot-proof as it would be possible to shut off oil flow altogether. (or nearly so)

This is why I think the OEM cooler makes sense. If you're still overheating your oil after installing one in the conventional manner, you can bypass the water through a small radiator, using a similar arrangement if desired. But in this case you're dealing with much lower pressure, much lower flow rates, non-flammable liquids, and a reduced possibility of instant and catastrophic engine failure if something goes wrong. The only downside is that you don't get to use shiny S/S hose and pretty red/blue anodized fittings. Less bling factor.
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:15 PM   #28
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For around town and mountain ****, the OEM 1.8 cooler is fine.

For hard track use, it may as well not even be there.

I had SERIOUS oil temperature issues when I went turbo. I would hit the track, oil temps would climb from standard 175-180 to 270+, where I would stop caning the car, bring it in, and let it cool. I've never pegged my gauge at 280, but I have come damn close a couple of times. It didn't do great things to the coolant temps, either, which spiked above 240 during the really hot track day I did at Buttonwillow in July (100+ degrees). Temps in my car are measured in the oil feed line to the turbo; not sure whether this ends up being hotter or cooler than the sump.

I thought lower ambient temps would bring oil temps down, but no dice. I did a 85 degree track day at T-hill, and oil temps were the same. So I ordered the Mocal sandwich adapter with 180deg internal thermostat, -10AN fittings, 5/8" high-temp silicone hose, and pushlock fittings. I also ordered the biggest ****-off cooler I felt comfortable with, 5.75"x11". Bar and plate style. It is mounted in direct airflow, in front of the radiator above the IC (my bumper is cut).

At T-hill in December, oil temps would not budge a bit over 230, so the huge cooler solved the problem. In 60-65 degree weather, oil temps were low, but not dangerously so. 165-170 on the freeway, 180 around town, although it took a while to get there. Now that the temps are in the 50s, it's low, 145ish.

My worry is that anything smaller won't do **** on the track, so I am keeping this setup. Another option is to tape off the front of the cooler with duct tape, and then un-tape it when you want to go beat on the car. I don't use a thermostat in the shifter kart and that's how we keep the temps in check (strips of duct tape on the radiator).
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Newb, the cooler that I had was the smallest one that Earl's makes. It was narrower than the one on my SV650. And even with a Mocal thermostat plate I still never got it above 180 in town.
Something was wrong with your setup then. With a huge oil cooler ( 15" x 8" x 3" ) and external Perma-Cool thermostat the coldest I get is the termostat temperature (190). So, it works just fine - the thermostat keeps the temperature at its set level and doesn't allow overcooling ...
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:29 PM   #30
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Problem is that the cooler still needs to maintain pressure in the lines, which means it needs to flow a small amount of oil.
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:32 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Problem is that the cooler still needs to maintain pressure in the lines, which means it needs to flow a small amount of oil.
IIRC the Perma-Cool thermostat docs were showing something like 10% through the cooler to keep the pressure/oil moving ... 10% is not much
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:36 PM   #32
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Here:

http://www.perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page14.html

Btw, my oil temperature gauge has always been on the return to the engine oil line. That's what I am monitoring - the temperature of the cooled oil flowing towards the oil filter. The temperature of the oil exiting the engine/oil pan - I don't know and no plans to measure that ...
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:38 PM   #33
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well how do you know the temp of your oil?
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:52 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Loki047 View Post
well how do you know the temp of your oil?
All that I care with mine is the oil entering the engine to be 190F always. If it is that - the cooler and thermostat are working fine
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Old 02-05-2008, 05:55 PM   #35
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Yeah but if your oil is coming out at 300deg F and you dont know.
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:09 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Loki047 View Post
Yeah but if your oil is coming out at 300deg F and you dont know.
so be it. the thermostat won't allow cooler oil entering the engine anyway and will try to maintain its preset temp unless the cooler stops keeping up ...
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:27 PM   #37
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Monitoring the oil in the return line from the cooler is a bit foolish IMO. It's not at all a true representation of the oil temp in the motor.
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Old 02-06-2008, 04:42 PM   #38
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fwiw, the B6T uses a similar cooler except the hoses are larger, ~3/4" like the heater hoses.
The GTR was supposed to get a better version?
That Miata cooler looks like an MSP (n/a FSDE?) cooler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Here it is in the parts diagram:



Here's a horribly underexposed and subsequently post-processed image of it installed. For reference, pressure sender is upper-left, alternator is at right.



Better exposure, but poorer angle:
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:14 PM   #39
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http://www.synthetic-motor-oil-chang...-to-synthetic/

the chart on this page suggests amsoil 10w40 synthetic is effective till 400 degrees, i'm not sure the cooling is worth the cost and complexity.
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