OMFG I want a rollbar but I don't want to die
 

I want a rollbar, for safety and for track days and i don't want to die due to concussion/cracked skull whatever.
Alright instead of me aimlessly PMing people lets throw all this info into a thread that has been created in different fashions by tons of other people before on every forums that all of us browse.
Here is the dilemma, i'm 6'2 or 6'3 who cares i'm too tall for a small miata basically. Same issue Samnavy has as well as many other people. I have a momo start in my possession and plan to bolt it in soon. It will be this high relative to a HDHCDD when i'm done.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...727_2_full.jpg
It will be using these sliders with this style brackets.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...727_7_full.jpg
If that doesn't do it for me I will attempt to bolt it to the floor in some fashion, no big deal.
Now here are some more pictures of some weird people sitting in the same seat I have. The first one is in the car, a '94 with a HDHCHT showing how close their are to the rollbar.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ht12-25012.jpg
Now imagine me in that same position but with my head in this high relative to the seat.
Attachment 214297

So I don't care about the 2" broomstick rule that is not going to work for me unless i get a different car or take out a couple vertebrae. I do care about having a rollbar that won't kill me in the event of a crash and the HDACE is not an option. The plan was to build a bar that was optimised for head clearance but that is apparently not going to happen at this point, maybe later when i'm not living in an apartment.

So OMFG WTF does a tall guy like me do. I know Y8s and Samnavy have bars and both have dealt with headroom issues and dealt with them in different fashions. Who else is dealing with or dealt with this.
I'd like to take advantage of the free shipping through ben(mazmart), that would be great.

I think you are going to need to pull the tracks off and mount the seat on the floor, you might also consider the Boss Frog MAXX roll bar, I believe it is slightly higher then the HD. Personally, this is far from a issue with me, as I am 5’5”

The issue is not the broomstick. Unless you are going to cut the stock seat mounts out of the car and bolt the seat *to the floor*, you aren't gaining anything more. In addition, the bottom of the Start is not flat so you can't even go that low.

Chad, you might want to look into an Autopower bar. The bar comes straight up the back of the headrest of the Momo and you'd be hard-pressed to whack your head on it in an accident. Without getting a different seat with a much larger headrest, you aren't really going to find much in the way of bars that sit behind the headrest.

The HardDog HardCore HardTop moves the upper bar further to the rear, offering more clearance for your head. I'm almost sure of it, but you could check the website. Or get the Boss Frog Clearview(think that's the name).

Yeah chad, consider one of the Hard Dog Ace bars (which unfortunately look like they're made for a 3/4 size miata). They mount WAY back and you could probably just sit reclined to get your head down.

http://www.bethania-garage.com/ace.htm

also unfortunately it's much shorter than the other bars.

I'm 6'3" and dealing with the same problem. I did manage to sit in someone else's car with a HDHCDD and some Momo seats on sliders, and it seemed the HD bar would work for me albeit with a different seat solution. Probably will order the bar soon to get the free shipping from Mazmart. Ditch those sliders. Just eyeballing the pic it looks like you'd gain 1-1.5" of clearance. I'll almost certainly be going with an aluminum seat like Kirkey or Ultrasheild w/o rails, and judging from what I've sat in before that should get me pretty close to passing the broomstick. If not, you'll notice there are two humps in the floor under the seat. One (rear) or both of these can be removed by drilling out the welds and/or flattening them with a BFH.

Now I see why everyone is afraid of hitting their head on their bar. That looks really close.

My boss frog dual hoop sits pretty far back, and since I'm short I sit closer to the wheel and under the bar. I know the bar is short, but hopefully the hardtop will act as a giant skid plate.

I'm about 6'2", and I remember having a very similar conversation with someone a short while ago.

An idea was proposed which involved building a rollbar such that it is a two-piece unit with the upper half easily removed and installed on the car. For normal everyday driving the rollbar would be left out (allowing the top to close), but for trackdays you bolt it in and satisfy the 2" rule. It might be constructed in such a way that even with the top half removed, the lower half (set back enough to clear your head) might still provide some protection in the event of a rollover.

Apparently, the rules of some clubs permit such an arrangement. It would probably be frowned upon by a SoloII inspector, but it might be something to consider.

No sliders is the way my friend.

Well, for what it's worth, i had a HDHCSD in my 96. I also had a Schroth 4-point harness that i has installed properly and wore EVERY TIME i got in the car. When i rolled the car, i never came close to hitting the rollbar. Mind you im 5'11" and that was with a stock seat.

Have a bossfrog double hoop,

No head banging with/without stock seats, or MoMo Corse seats.

I'm 6'2"

-meaty

I will be watching this thread, as I am boosting my Miata, and the next mod will defiantly be rollbar/seat combo. I am 6'2" @ 175lbs, 34" waist. I've always wanted to get a rollbar, but I feel like I am way more likely to get rear ended (it is a Miata after all) than roll it.

6'2"also i have sparco sprints mounted to the floor. with an old school harddog bar(dont even know which one) and i built on it and have a full NASA legal cage I dont feel that i am close to it. and i have never hit touched it during a run or what not.....http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...ageID=11783461

I'm your exact measurements and I'm interested in a rollbar and have the same concerns...the only accident I've had in my life was getting rear-ended at 40mph at a traffic light in my previous miata.

I'd be a little worried about snapping my neck in a head on collision with a harness.

Thanks for all the input and photos some provided.
Right now I still have no clue which bar I should get though i'm slowly figuring it out. If anyone feels so inclined as so sit in their car and act like their smashing their head into the bar that would be sweet. I really really don't want the ace pretty sure it's the gayest rollbar one earth. Back to research, i'll post my findings if I scrounge up some more cool photos or w/e.

It is pretty close to it, ask me how i know.

Why would it be any different then the stock 3-point belt?

yeah man if your chin can reach your chest i don 't think you'll snap your neck. Has anyone tried making a bracket that raises the back of the stock seat so that there is no way of your head hitting the bar behind it because the headrest is in the way?

^^ Just buy some 01+ seats.. the seat back is PLENTY tall.

Chad,

I know the pics are off an NA seat, but this is the Kirk Racing Bar in the brg. It sits far forward and as high as possible so won't work with a HT. BUT, the pic is with a seat that is NOT lowered at all so just something to consider as I believe it's one of the tallest bars avail.

I'm 5'10" and with a major seatfoam mod, the top of my helmet is just under the top of the bar. You're probably still to tall, but if you could get a pic of yourself in an NA seat to see how high your head is and then see if a lower aftermarket seat bolted to the bottom could get you to safety.

Tom

Tall enough to pass spec and to save your head in a roll over is simply going to be dangerous on the street. You likely have no way around this at your height. Bars that sit back further are too short for you. The Ace won't likely pass inspection, it's WAY too low! I've got an autopower street bar, it doesn't sit as far back as the ACE but I still have to sweet talk the inspectors to pass and I'm only 5'8". ( the only reason they pass me is the hard top ) Bars tall enough for you are too far forward to be safe on the street. Get the best quality dual stage foam padding for the bar and live with the idea you could crack your skull anyway.

The only way to avoid this would be a completely custom soft top taller than standard with a custom roll bar to fit it. I have no idea what it would take, or if it's even possible, to have a soft top modded to be taller further back from the seats.

Sorry to be so negative, but it's the reality of the limited space available in Miata's.

Uhhhh 01 seats are not nearly tall enough. they clear the bottom of the bar by an inch at least.

my head, not so much.

http://www.y8s.com/miata/pictures/hdhc-head02.jpg

[Bitchin'] i just think that all of you bastards should quit bitchin' and sit a bit closer to the wheel and have your knees bent a bit more :vash: You may not be lookin cool like hustler did at prom but i'm sure your head would be far from the bar :cool: [/Bitchin']

are any of you guys worried about hitting your head on the vertical bar? I'm 6'1 but i'm pretty sure i sit far enough forward of the horizontal, i'd be more worried about the vertical in a side impact :dunno:

I guess for being 5'11" the 01+ seats seem tall to me:) :bang:
Anytime i get in my gf's MSM, the seatbacks feel like they're taller then me! My AE seats come right to the middle of the back of my head....i also sit kinda slouched in the way that my ass isn't as far back as it could go on the seat bottom. Seems to work fine for me! Though i want to do a foamectomy so i can sit a little lower.

I'll take some pics tonight of me sitting in my car with the BF Double Maxx if any of you want to reference it.

My I suggest Autopower's "Race" roll bar. I got mine from Brian of goodwinn racing.

http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda...t/30-1038.html

From all the roll bars I have seen in person, this bar is the tallest by far that will still clear softops and hardtops (without side latches though on HT)

With the seat all the way back to show you can still recline fully, if needed.
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Attachment 214220
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bolt it to the floor. It gets you another 1.5".

doesn't the harness keep your body planted alot more? Isn't that why nascar has those head restraint things tethered to the helmet? Because your body stays still while your head whips forward?

The hans (spelling I know) device that's used by a lot of racers is designed to help keep the head/neck/body moving together as one unit. Rather than having your head snap forward. It's not just a harness thing, it's a physics thing....

Hey doppel, can you post the pics of the BF? I've been thinkin' about getting one of the regular ones (to clear the HT). Unfortunately nobody up here in the great white north seems to have one....

Dave,

I have to disagree. Then again, my life was saved by a harddog double diag sport bar, so what do I know and I run a Harddog Hardcore double diag race bar now.

This is true, but the way around this is as others suggest, bolt the seat to the floor, this gets you an additional 3-4 inches at least. I had to do it for a lot of tall customers. I'm only 5'10" but with the factory sliders and relatively high seats, it's the same deal as being 6'2" or 6'3" with a race seat bolted to the floor pan.

Mark

I know, I need a haircut.
There is a lot of room in the cockpit... it just needs to be maximized.

1st Pic: Stock seat, 1" foamectomy, sitting bolt upright.
2nd Pic: Same seat, standard slouched driving position
3rd Pic: New uber-seat... now you know why I needed the steering column lowered.

The rollbar is a modified Autopower. It's an autopwer main hoop with the rear supports bent to allow the hoop to lay back more so a taller guy has more headroom. The Autopower bolts to the seatbelt mounts and a lot of the HD or BF don't. The single crossmember is a custom piece. That bar is as far back and as tall as it can possibly be without interfering with the top. It could be more forward and taller, but then it would certainly hit my head when driving.

the incredible shrinking sam. that's pretty damned impressive.

Man that is a huge amount of drop with that new seat. I think if I bolt this momo to the floor i can get away with a standard HDHCDD if not possibly the hard top version. There is a NB local to me with a HT version that I might get a chance to sit in next week that will make or break my decision. I don't sit with my seat at full recline when I drive usually 1-2 clicks vertical just because i prefer that driving position. So I'll try that and in the meantime try to devise from floor mounts.

Anyone besides savington have pictures of what their floor mounts look like? I'm hoping to be able to fab something that I can bolt to the seat and bolt into the car versus bolting it in the car and then drilling holes in the floor of the car so i can run bolts into the seats like some have said they had to do.

holy shit, talk about gaining head room...
nice work, how well can you see over the hood in that position, thats one thing i would worry about when auto-xing
im 5'11" and a half, and my seat has a removable cushion to let me sit lower, once i remove it, i feel im too low when auto-xing but feel ok when just driving around

In that position, I am slightly slouched... if I sit bolt upright in that seat, it'd raise my up about an inch. I've actually had to learn how to use the clutch all over again. Instead of lifting my foot up, I've got to pull it essentially straight back. I've had a couple interesting launches.

Chad, any reason you need the hard top bar over the standard? The difference is simply that you can't use the side latches as intended on the hard core. You have to get creative or make your own or whatever. Or run none. I drove 3000 miles with no side latches coast to coast. No problems.

Well a stock seatbelt is supposed to lock instantly upon and sudden movement. So whats the difference between that and already being "locked in" with a harness?

i guess you're right, just speculation. isn't that how dale earndhart (sp) died? I guess the speeds are a bit more extreme though.

The only reason i say the hardtop version might be better is because its supposedly further back towards the rear or the car. As for side latches, I don't care about them. If i end up needing them for some reason i will get some bolt in spec plates or the uber expensive low profile ones. I don't even own a hardtop right now anyway. So instead of being right on my head it'll be further back from the seat. I don't see myself getting below the bar but if I can get it back enough I figured that would be safer. I could be wrong though. When i talked to bethania he was saying if I can't get below the bar I should get the bar back as far as possible. There is no way i'm getting the ace though, like I said before it's just too queer.

So i found a local with an 01+ with a HD sport and snapped some camera phone pics of me sitting in it.
The first image is with the seat all the way back with me in normal driving position. His seats are un modified and the momo start has about the same seat back height as the 01 seats. The stock 99 seats are like 4" shorter.
http://i26.tinypic.com/beau87.jpg
2nd picture shows me with the seat all the way back full recline. Looks like I won't even fit in the car in the first picture, kind of like Sam.
http://i29.tinypic.com/etxlqg.jpg

I need a haircut as well. Yes my head is resting against the rollbar and the seat is below the bar.

here's how i interpret those pics:

hard dog sport = brain damage

it's not any better with the hard core.

i say have bethania make you a custom top hoop that has a slight U-bend (parenthesis bend?) behind your head like a little rollbar halo.

I think, though, that rollbars have to be all one piece so they'd have to bend it that way, not cut 'n weld a chunk. here I drew a picture:

nice picture...

Slide the seat forward and slouch a little. Do a foamectomy. Remove the seat, oval out the forward mounting holes in the rail, and bend them up a little to get the front of the seat lower.

That is an option, i've seen cages with a horizontal support that goes around the back of the seat but it is never in the main hoop. I wonder if these rules from NASA can be worked around because I want to do an HPDE at road atlanta once in a while.

So based on these rules I could get away with a half halo only if I went up one weight class and used 2" tubing which is rediculous and not going to happen.

I need to buy a drill and make brackets for my damn seat so I can see how low i'm sitting in it when bolted to the floor. Guess i'll go rip out the stock seat now real quick and drop it in there on the sliders and see what that gets me.

Also the stock standoffs for the stock seat, are they actually part of the floor pan, or are they just spotwelded in place? I was thinking of going to a fixed back seat to allow me to get low enough, and sidemount the seat and bolt the brackets to the floor pan.

They're part of the floor via spot welding.
http://targamiata.com/images_lrg/IMG_6621.jpg

chad, all you gotta do is get the car under 2001 lbs and you can use the 1.75 hard core tubing diameter.... :)

good to know the rules though. it'd almost be worth a 2" bar just for the main hoop if it got it off my head.

Sweet, I guess I know how I will be mounting the seat I get.

All of this indecision is killing me softly.

bliss is buying the hard core bar before thinking too much about it.

I hear that. i think we bought our roll bar about 6 years ago. just wanted something that fit under the hardtop and had a harness bar...didn't think much about anything else.

Now that's Cal Poly engineering design for you. ;)

So I have come to a conclusion.... ok not really. The seat is still on the sparco sliders and it's just sitting in there in the general position it will be in when i'm done with it.
Attachment 214162 Attachment 214163 Attachment 214164 Attachment 214165

Then judging by these photos, both of which are using the standard HDHCDD, i think I will be just fine with the seat bolted to the floor or on sliders even.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...55_12_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...55_11_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...55_13_full.jpg

Ordered the M2 HDHCDD HT bar. I decided that because no matter what I do the bar will be close to my head so I might as well be able to pad it. So with the hardtop bar, I won't have any issues using the HT both with the sidelatches(not really an issue to begin with) or with the bar making contact with the HT itself. Plus, with the extra clearance I can pad the HT model bar to help keep my noggin safe.

But once I have the momo I deem the bar completely unsafe, I will sell the HT bar. Make a different bar that is taller as well as try a different seat. Such as a kirkey bolted to the floor. Those are all options but I wanted to take advantage of the free shipping now because I don't see used bars coming up for sale often enough.

chad, you know you can always sell a HD bar for almost what you pay for it...so you made a good choice...
Im thinking about an Ultrashield or Kirkey myself eventually...

Got my hardcore today, install tomorrow, pictures to follow.

2" helmet rule abider? I'll never make it, WHO CARES
 

Well i've had the bar installed for a few days now and i'm super happy with it. It has tightened up the car a good bit and I'm loving that part. I'm also really happy i ordered the standard hardcore instead of the HT version. With the seat back and fully reclined my head goes just under the bar in normal driving position. If I tip the seat up a little to where I actually driver the car then I still don't come close to hitting the bar.

Went to my first autocross today and had a blast. Here are a couple pictures the g/f took of me in the car while in grid. With the helmet on my helmet hits the seat and doesn't come close to hitting the bar. Couldn't be happier.
The person in the green hoodies is kyra, not I. So keep the height difference in mind. She just wanted some poser shots to show friends. She did ride along the 2nd run so that was fun. She wouldn't ride along again after that though.
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Looks great chadwick, glad to hear your choice worked out.

I was going to ask what the hell class "NSMZ" was but then figured out it was SM2 novice..

sweet chad, glad you are happy with the non- hard top bar.

vettes and 3rd gens and s2ks oh my. those pics really make me want to try an auto-x this year.

glad it worked out

That's not even the best ones. There was a C6R, another amazing Z06, STI, real RHD silvia, a mean RX8 that sounded like it was going to eat you, a camaro that made the corvettes sounds like hondas, and of course a bunch of other awesome cars. It was awesome to be able to race and push the car as well as being able to be around all kinds of car enthusiasts that care about real car modification instead of LED washer nozzles.