Pulled my head today. (Think I have a problem) Pics inside
 

Pulled the head today to have it rebuilt and possibly a little porting. I noticed a little chip/crack in one of the exhust valves and a little indintation in one of the pistons. Tell me what you think. The oil was also very milky???

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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b1...d/IMG_7067.jpg
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something went through your motor. i suspect mine will look the same somewhere. it's also the only valve without carbon deposits....is it stuck? looks like your were getting hot in that cylinder.

Looks like he cleaned it along with the top of the piston. Looks like you're doing a rebuild along with the refreshed head. :bigtu:

That would be a cracked exhaust valve. Probably destroyed the seat too. Head will need some work. And the corresponding cylinder's combustion chamber and piston are very "clean" from water leaking into it. You likely had a blown headgasket, causing water to leak into the cylinder and oil into the water, water into the oil, etc. Rebuild time for you.

the presence of oil on the block/head surfaces and the piston being so clean says head gasket blew...probably running hot...

turn your cam...does the valves move?

Hard to tell but you may also have a hairline crack on your head.

uh oh...

Yes it does. Just as easily as the adjoining valve.

Attachment 211224

No crack, thank god!




So, you guys dont think that I would be ok with just having the head refreshed?
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wow--ugly valve fo sho. the head gasket is blown, but you were planning on replacing it anyway, amirite? get the mls one from fm with arp head studs.

did you do a leakdown before the teardown to check ring health?

how much money are you willing to put into this project? that will dictate your course of action.

Why the mls one? I searched around here and plenty of people say the stock gasket and bolts are just fine. I dont ever have plans for huge power. 200-220 and i'll be happy for a good while.

Id like to spend as little as possible.

No I didnt do a leakdown. I was going to do a compression test but I knew I had a leak somewhere so I figured the readings wouldnt be right anyway.
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Multi-Layered Steel: http://flyinmiata.com/index.php?dept...04-20005++80MM

Though personally, I'm with "everyone" on this. I think the stock gasket is probably fine, and used one when I had my head off a few months ago. I did spring for the ARP bolts, simply because they weren't much more than stock and I prefer not to to re-use head studs.

With a hole that size in your exhaust valve, a leakdown test would have been worthless anyway.

FWIW I'd keep the stock gasket and head bolts. They are proven to hold up to lots of boost. Besides, the head gasket is like the fuse in an electrical system. It blows if something dangerous happens and is cheaper, easier, and faster to replace than the system it's protecting.

I hit the 99' with a 100 shot at 800 RPMs. The math shows that's over 600 ft*lbs of torque at that RPM. Could have bent rods, broke pistons, etc. But it just blew the shit out of the stock head gasket thank god.

You might could just do a head swap, assuming the deck is square and there is no cylinder wall scaring. Would have been nice to do a leakdown before pulling the head to have verified the condition of the bottom end.

Ok, when I replaced my blown headgasket the MAZDA gasket was a multi layer steel gasket, 3 layers. The Felpro one I replaced it with was also a 3 layer steel gasket. I don't see what's special about the FM one vs stock.

Especially at $98
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So, anyone else think I could get away with just rebuilding the head?
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Do you guys think cruising to lean could have caused this?
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Yeah. What AFR did you cruise at? It causes EGT's to climb and can burn a valve (imagine that). I cruise at 15.5 usually. I've done 16:1 a few times but I worry too much. I'd rather have the peace of mind that I'm not on the verge of running too lean. FWIW make sure the machinist that rebuilds that head KNOWS this is going on a turbo motor. They should cut the exhaust seat a little wider to help pull heat out of the exhaust valves to help prevent what happened to you.

eek. I have done lots of cruising at high 16's low 17's. I guess its time to richen it up and forget about mpg's. Do you think it also killed the HG?
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Damn. Yeah that's way too lean. I don't think running lean could blow a head gasket. Knock will do it in short order though. Perhaps knock occurred in boost with the burnt valve. That's my best guess.

so with 195k on the odo I guess the question is, WWYD? This goes out to everyone.
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This guy may have something you need... If you have a 1.6L that is...

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25675

To bad its a short nose.
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The FM MLS gasket is a Cometic MLS gasket for the 1.6. The stock 1.6 HG is not MLS nor are any of the aftermarket "cheapo" brands. I can't speak for 94-97 1.8 HG's but I do know that starting in 99 the stock gasket is a MLS gasket and all the aftermarket manufacturers followed suit.

Pat, the 1.6 oe gasket is composite. The only 1.6 mls gasket I am aware of is retailed through FM. Personally, I would pony up and get the mls gasket. <edit>damn, guess I should have read all the replies before posting. :dunno:

I see you posted on m.net...great help you got :giggle:

One of the reasons I only post there in the Water Cooler or Pricing anymore. All tech questions here...

So should I even bother with using this block? should i source another one? or should rebuild this one?
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Check the block to make sure it's ok. If it is then just do an OEM rebuild or mild build.

If I were in your shoes, I would prob consider this...
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25465

What do you mean check the block?
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Me no wants a 1.8
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Make sure it didn't warp somehow, I know it's iron and not likely but I just like being safe. Lay a straight edge on it and check it with feeler gauges.

hypothetically speaking, what would one expect to pay in labor for a rebuild.

Complete rebuild kit from Performance auto parts is $326.70
Rods from M-tuned $399.00
Head refresh was gonna be $130 will obviously need more work now $??
Labor????

Someone tell me to just rebuild the head and slap it back together please. lol
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Phil, call Sebastien. He just did a full on race build for an old buddy of ours.

I'd definitely look to a used engine from one of the guys that import pulled, low mileage engines from Japan before thinking of rebuilding. Local guy sells them for 6~700 complete. Pull off the parts you don't need as spares.


http://www.jdmenginesinc.com/shop/


They don't list their whole inventory, you need to call or have someone vist for you.

I had Gary remove my access from the Water Cooler, I never have to see all the stupid political posts ever again.

if it were me....i'd get a new head (or fix & work this one) and slap it back on with a new HG.

Complete rebuild kit from Performance auto parts is $326.70
Rods from M-tuned $399.00
Rebuild the spare head that I have so I dont have to mess with having valve seats replaced. $130
Block labor $300
Now lets talk Pistons. What do you suggest? Oem coated pistons or some after market pistons?
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You conservatives are all alike:gtfo:

Thats what i would love to do. Id just hate to have to pull it all again because the bearings went from having water in there.
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Ah, si. Well then it may be worth upgrading. I do hate the composite gaskets myself. The blow too easy. Ok, to the OP buy that FM gasket. :)


Make sure the deck is square. I already said that.

I can assume you know little about engines. You need to look and see if there's any visible scaring in the cylinders. See if the deck of the block is flat.

Buy a replacement and drop it in, or take your old motor to a machine shop and tell them to build you a long block with the parts you supply.

+1

If you are just looking to get back on the road and be whole for the least $$$, find a used motor and swap it and be done with it. It shouldn't be too hard to find a wrecked car with a good engine for cheap. People sell whole cars (1.6l) for way under $1k when they've been cosmetically trashed.

If you want to use this as an opportunity to justify engine work "while you are already in there", that's a different story. At this point, cheapest/easiest is a straight swap.

You could even buy a beater, swap your bad engine into the beater and resell it to someone that wants a project.

Im not the most knowledgable. I have never done any internal engine work so this is new to me. Im seriously considering taking this opportunity to do a "mild" build. Like I said earlier, I have no plans for huge #'s. My 2554 can only do so much.

With that said. Im giving myself 2 options. 1st. Rebuild my spare head, slap it back together and hope for the best. 2nd. Save some money and do a mild build.
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1.6's are CHEAP. Buy one and drop it in. Done. Fast.

Meh, if im gonna pull the rest of the motor id rather just put a nice fresh one in there. Im not a big fan of buying high mileage motors and not knowing its history.
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I have a motor at work w/ under 40k. We get $900 for it. I recommend something like this as a path for you to take.

You're going to be in this old motor for at least $2500 to rebuild the whole thing on the cheap.
I'm projecting $2500 for just my block, and it's not an "all out" build.

The Jap motors are low mileage. The taxes in Japan on a car more than a couple of years old are so high that they are better off scraping and sending the motors and transmissions to the US and/or exporting the parts/cars to other countries.

It would be almost impossible to build a stock 1.8 for less than 2K. 2500 is about right for a stock motor rebuild after all expenses, and that's if you do the motor swaping. Find a 1.6. Do a LEAKDOWN TEST ( Hint: this is what you should have done before pulling your head). If it don't leak it's fine. Pull the valve cover and make sure it's not full of acorns or sludge. Buy it. Put a TB and WP on it and run it. Used motor if you pull it at a local yard is 200-300 probably. Then another 300 for TB WP and whatnot. Cheaper than a "mild build" which would likely be a new stock motor with 2-3 insignificant upgraded parts.

Who are they kidding? "FM Exclusive"...HAHAHAHA, they are Cometic gaskets, I have 3 .040" and 4 .051" thickness ones about 20 ft from me. I guess I work at FM now.....:cool:

You are so getting proved wrong on at...wait a few months. (not me btw, but I know of a build that will blow your mind)

What are you doing for $2500?


Here's what im thinking.

Belfab rod and piston combo $805
Labor from a friend $300
Refresh my spare head $130
Re-Ring Kit: contains complete gasket set, main bearings, rod bearings, thrust washers (if applicable) and a ring set. Rings: Std., .020, .040. $220-$235

Total= $1455-$1470

Timing belt and water pump are less than a year old, so no worries there.

Anything else im missing?
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Who in the world could possible build a 1.8 for any less than 2k, I call shenanigans!

People take the word "rebuilt" differently. Depends what you replace I suppose. Here, a machine shop charges 600 labor to rebuild a 4 cylinder, 1000 labor to rebuild a V8. That cost is for standard labor of machining and assembling the long block to factory spec. It doesn't include any parts and gaskets. Your head needs 3 seats, a valve guide, stem seals, 4 valves, and a lifter, that's extra. Parts and gaskets can vary a lot too, depends what you call a rebuild. Could spend a 1000 on parts easy. But I will say there's a BIG difference between a rebuild and a refresh, which I believe some people are getting confused. GOOD machinist aren't cheap. New parts cost more than old used parts. Shit adds up.

I know a "refresh" can be done cheap, I've done that too. That's not a rebuild though.

Well then, good luck proving yourself wrong. :giggle:

Im not gonna use that head. I have a good spare one that I will just have refreshed.
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new head gasket $20, spare head $40 milling. I think the choice is clear :)

Yes if you have a good head chillin in the garage, put it on your block (check the deck for square and get a new gasket). Then do compression and leakdown. That's only an afternoon's work.

BTW, you're retarded if you don't get a new timing belt, water pump, tensioner, and guide. I don't care if Jesus changed it out himself. If you're there, replace it. And the oil pump too (get the oil pump gears from the gb).

I've listed my intended build in another thread. I don't have time to list it out now. There are incidentals and might as wells that should be done while inside the motor. I'm doing all the practical ones.

So maybe im retarded then. The timing belt and water pump are the least of my concerns. To easy and cheap the even worry about it. As for the oil pump gears, no thanks. Like I said I have no plans for huge #'s or to spin this engine any faster than it does.

Belfab rod and piston combo $805
Labor from a friend $300
Refresh my spare head $130
Re-Ring Kit: contains complete gasket set, main bearings, rod bearings, thrust washers (if applicable) and a ring set. Rings: Std., .020, .040. $220-$235

Total= $1455-$1470

Is there anything im missing from this list?
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You can't just throw on bearings from a generic kit and expect them to work. What if your clearances are too tight, or too loose? Then what?

You are definitely retarded not to include the costs of timing belt, water pump, and oil pump. Thats another $200 right there for parts off Ebay.

Im just using that bearing kit as an example for pricing. My friend who would build it would get the correct bearings and at a better price.

I already have all the gaskets and seals.

So, adding the water pump/tb kit and oil pump $200
Belfab rod and piston combo $805
Labor from a friend $300
All new bearings $100-$150 ish
Refresh my spare head $130


Puts me between $1550 and $1600 and I would keep a couple hundred on the side for just in case.

Anything else?
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