Race Seats - DIY
#21
Loki,
I'm not against your DIY seats at all. I'm just curious about what you want in a seat you haven't found in the existing market yet?!?
Removeable bolsters? Adjustable bolsters? Other features?
I wonder if it might be easier to modify an Aluminum framed seat like Kirkey or Ultrashield do do what you want. The frames are strong and reletively inexpensive. Might also be easier to work with their seat covers to than sewing your own from scratch.
I'm not against your DIY seats at all. I'm just curious about what you want in a seat you haven't found in the existing market yet?!?
Removeable bolsters? Adjustable bolsters? Other features?
I wonder if it might be easier to modify an Aluminum framed seat like Kirkey or Ultrashield do do what you want. The frames are strong and reletively inexpensive. Might also be easier to work with their seat covers to than sewing your own from scratch.
#22
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Loki,
I'm not against your DIY seats at all. I'm just curious about what you want in a seat you haven't found in the existing market yet?!?
Removeable bolsters? Adjustable bolsters? Other features?
I wonder if it might be easier to modify an Aluminum framed seat like Kirkey or Ultrashield do do what you want. The frames are strong and reletively inexpensive. Might also be easier to work with their seat covers to than sewing your own from scratch.
I'm not against your DIY seats at all. I'm just curious about what you want in a seat you haven't found in the existing market yet?!?
Removeable bolsters? Adjustable bolsters? Other features?
I wonder if it might be easier to modify an Aluminum framed seat like Kirkey or Ultrashield do do what you want. The frames are strong and reletively inexpensive. Might also be easier to work with their seat covers to than sewing your own from scratch.
#27
Designing a seat from scratch (the proper way) is not a trivial task. The structural analysis can be done by hand but an infinitely easier way is to use a linear FEA package. That will take a fair bit of time, and may NOT predict fatigue effects (which can have a significant effect if the seat is built of aluminum), unless you are using very high-end software like hypermesh/optistruct. In cases like these, the only thing to do is overbuild.
My advice: Buy an aluminum seat like Kirkey where all the structural and fab work is done for you already, then spend your time on bolstering it to your requirements. I am pretty sure there is nothing that you can do better over what Kirkey or Ultrashield have already done for you.
Other people's engineering is often the cheapest to buy in terms of both time and money.
My advice: Buy an aluminum seat like Kirkey where all the structural and fab work is done for you already, then spend your time on bolstering it to your requirements. I am pretty sure there is nothing that you can do better over what Kirkey or Ultrashield have already done for you.
Other people's engineering is often the cheapest to buy in terms of both time and money.
#28
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Designing a seat from scratch (the proper way) is not a trivial task. The structural analysis can be done by hand but an infinitely easier way is to use a linear FEA package. That will take a fair bit of time, and may NOT predict fatigue effects (which can have a significant effect if the seat is built of aluminum), unless you are using very high-end software like hypermesh/optistruct. In cases like these, the only thing to do is overbuild.
My advice: Buy an aluminum seat like Kirkey where all the structural and fab work is done for you already, then spend your time on bolstering it to your requirements. I am pretty sure there is nothing that you can do better over what Kirkey or Ultrashield have already done for you.
Other people's engineering is often the cheapest to buy in terms of both time and money.
My advice: Buy an aluminum seat like Kirkey where all the structural and fab work is done for you already, then spend your time on bolstering it to your requirements. I am pretty sure there is nothing that you can do better over what Kirkey or Ultrashield have already done for you.
Other people's engineering is often the cheapest to buy in terms of both time and money.
I will probably end up running the seat through mechanica for FEA
#29
I'm not trying to be a dick here, just pointing out that what you want to accomplish can be done alot easier and cheaper.
If you do intend to race this car I could see a tech inspector shitting all over having moveable or removable bolsters.
There's a reason real race seats don't recline, or typically have moveable parts.
If you do intend to race this car I could see a tech inspector shitting all over having moveable or removable bolsters.
There's a reason real race seats don't recline, or typically have moveable parts.
#30
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I'm not trying to be a dick here, just pointing out that what you want to accomplish can be done alot easier and cheaper.
If you do intend to race this car I could see a tech inspector shitting all over having moveable or removable bolsters.
There's a reason real race seats don't recline, or typically have moveable parts.
If you do intend to race this car I could see a tech inspector shitting all over having moveable or removable bolsters.
There's a reason real race seats don't recline, or typically have moveable parts.
My thought process.
1) Prove seat with out bolsters pass tech
2) Prove that the bolsters do not decrease stregnth or safety of seats
#31
FYI here is the seat section from the SCCA GCR.
I think the part about it being one-piece may hurt your idea.
9.3.40. SEATS
The driver’s seat shall be a one-piece bucket-type seat and shall be securely mounted. In cars where the seat is upright the back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the main roll hoop, or its cross bracing, so as to provide aft and lateral support. Seats homologated to and mounted in accordance with FIA standard 8855-1999 or higher need not have the seat back attached to the roll structure. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 (lateral, bottom, etc). Passenger seat back - if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place.A system of head rest to prevent whiplash and rebound, and also to prevent the driver’s head from striking the underside of the main hoop shall be installed on all vehicles. Racing seats with integral headrests satisfy this requirement.The head rest on non-integral seats shall have a minimum area of thirty-six (36) square inches and be padded with a minimum of one inch thick padding. It is strongly recommended that padding meet SFI spec 45.2 or FIA Sports Car Head Rest Material. The head rest shall be capable of withstanding a force of two-hundred (200) lbs. in a rearward direction. The head rest support shall be such that it continues rearward or upward from the top edge in a way that the driver’s helmet can not hook over the pad.
I think the part about it being one-piece may hurt your idea.
9.3.40. SEATS
The driver’s seat shall be a one-piece bucket-type seat and shall be securely mounted. In cars where the seat is upright the back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the main roll hoop, or its cross bracing, so as to provide aft and lateral support. Seats homologated to and mounted in accordance with FIA standard 8855-1999 or higher need not have the seat back attached to the roll structure. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 (lateral, bottom, etc). Passenger seat back - if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place.A system of head rest to prevent whiplash and rebound, and also to prevent the driver’s head from striking the underside of the main hoop shall be installed on all vehicles. Racing seats with integral headrests satisfy this requirement.The head rest on non-integral seats shall have a minimum area of thirty-six (36) square inches and be padded with a minimum of one inch thick padding. It is strongly recommended that padding meet SFI spec 45.2 or FIA Sports Car Head Rest Material. The head rest shall be capable of withstanding a force of two-hundred (200) lbs. in a rearward direction. The head rest support shall be such that it continues rearward or upward from the top edge in a way that the driver’s helmet can not hook over the pad.
#32
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FYI here is the seat section from the SCCA GCR.
I think the part about it being one-piece may hurt your idea.
9.3.40. SEATS
The driver’s seat shall be a one-piece bucket-type seat and shall be securely mounted. In cars where the seat is upright the back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the main roll hoop, or its cross bracing, so as to provide aft and lateral support. Seats homologated to and mounted in accordance with FIA standard 8855-1999 or higher need not have the seat back attached to the roll structure. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 (lateral, bottom, etc). Passenger seat back - if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place.A system of head rest to prevent whiplash and rebound, and also to prevent the driver’s head from striking the underside of the main hoop shall be installed on all vehicles. Racing seats with integral headrests satisfy this requirement.The head rest on non-integral seats shall have a minimum area of thirty-six (36) square inches and be padded with a minimum of one inch thick padding. It is strongly recommended that padding meet SFI spec 45.2 or FIA Sports Car Head Rest Material. The head rest shall be capable of withstanding a force of two-hundred (200) lbs. in a rearward direction. The head rest support shall be such that it continues rearward or upward from the top edge in a way that the driver’s helmet can not hook over the pad.
I think the part about it being one-piece may hurt your idea.
9.3.40. SEATS
The driver’s seat shall be a one-piece bucket-type seat and shall be securely mounted. In cars where the seat is upright the back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the main roll hoop, or its cross bracing, so as to provide aft and lateral support. Seats homologated to and mounted in accordance with FIA standard 8855-1999 or higher need not have the seat back attached to the roll structure. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 (lateral, bottom, etc). Passenger seat back - if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place.A system of head rest to prevent whiplash and rebound, and also to prevent the driver’s head from striking the underside of the main hoop shall be installed on all vehicles. Racing seats with integral headrests satisfy this requirement.The head rest on non-integral seats shall have a minimum area of thirty-six (36) square inches and be padded with a minimum of one inch thick padding. It is strongly recommended that padding meet SFI spec 45.2 or FIA Sports Car Head Rest Material. The head rest shall be capable of withstanding a force of two-hundred (200) lbs. in a rearward direction. The head rest support shall be such that it continues rearward or upward from the top edge in a way that the driver’s helmet can not hook over the pad.
"if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place."
Folding seat makes me think the one piece bucket is misleacding and might be refering to the actual seat bucked that mounted to the car. I have to look into it, but if my seat passes inspection without the bolsters then I should be alright.
#33
I have to look up the FIA rules...
"if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place."
Folding seat makes me think the one piece bucket is misleacding and might be refering to the actual seat bucked that mounted to the car. I have to look into it, but if my seat passes inspection without the bolsters then I should be alright.
"if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place."
Folding seat makes me think the one piece bucket is misleacding and might be refering to the actual seat bucked that mounted to the car. I have to look into it, but if my seat passes inspection without the bolsters then I should be alright.
You may want to give the guy who will be doing your annuals a call. I know what my local SCCA tech inspector would say, but yours may be different.
To me it's pretty clear it's not talking about the drivers seat but the passenger seat.
The full sentence reads:
"Passenger seat back - if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place."
Meaning, if you don't remove the stock seat on the passenger side, you'll need to brace the back either with a strap or bolting it something solid like the rollcage, so that **** doesn't become a projectile in a crash.
For FIA certs you'll need to probably ship them a seat or two. For testing and evaluation.
#34
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Do you have the link to the full spec? Guess I didn't read it too clearly. Also, maybe I need to sit down and read this in full but I am not seeing that the seat has to be FIA cert.
PS: I dont plan on doing SCCA.
PPS: I dont know what annuals are
PS: I dont plan on doing SCCA.
PPS: I dont know what annuals are
#35
I think FIA certs are only good for 5 years from date of manufacture.
Here's the SCCA stuff.
www.scca.com/documents/Club%20Rules/GCR2008.pdf
9.3.40. SEATS
The driver’s seat shall be a one-piece bucket-type seat and shall be securely mounted. In cars where the seat is upright the back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the main roll hoop, or its cross bracing, so as to provide aft and lateral support. Seats homologated to and mounted in accordance with FIA standard 8855-1999 or higher need not have the seat back attached to the roll structure. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 (lateral, bottom, etc). Passenger seat back - if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place.A system of head rest to prevent whiplash and rebound, and also to prevent the driver’s head from striking the underside of the main hoop shall be installed on all vehicles. Racing seats with integral headrests satisfy this requirement.The head rest on non-integral seats shall have a minimum area of thirty-six (36) square inches and be padded with a minimum of one inch thick padding. It is strongly recommended that padding meet SFI spec 45.2 or FIA Sports Car Head Rest Material. The head rest shall be capable of withstanding a force of two-hundred (200) lbs. in a rearward direction. The head rest support shall be such that it continues rearward or upward from the top edge in a way that the driver’s helmet can not hook over the pad.
Here's the SCCA stuff.
www.scca.com/documents/Club%20Rules/GCR2008.pdf
9.3.40. SEATS
The driver’s seat shall be a one-piece bucket-type seat and shall be securely mounted. In cars where the seat is upright the back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the main roll hoop, or its cross bracing, so as to provide aft and lateral support. Seats homologated to and mounted in accordance with FIA standard 8855-1999 or higher need not have the seat back attached to the roll structure. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 (lateral, bottom, etc). Passenger seat back - if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or strapped in place.A system of head rest to prevent whiplash and rebound, and also to prevent the driver’s head from striking the underside of the main hoop shall be installed on all vehicles. Racing seats with integral headrests satisfy this requirement.The head rest on non-integral seats shall have a minimum area of thirty-six (36) square inches and be padded with a minimum of one inch thick padding. It is strongly recommended that padding meet SFI spec 45.2 or FIA Sports Car Head Rest Material. The head rest shall be capable of withstanding a force of two-hundred (200) lbs. in a rearward direction. The head rest support shall be such that it continues rearward or upward from the top edge in a way that the driver’s helmet can not hook over the pad.
#36
Where do you plan on racing?
Annuals are your annual tech inspection every car that races has to undertake. Every racing club I know of does annuals, from my local vintage group to the SCCA, to NASCAR.
P.S. FIA certs aren't required, unless you do not want to mount the seat with a back brace, as long as the seat is mounted in accordance with the FIA required mounting procedure.
#37
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Where do you plan on racing?
Annuals are your annual tech inspection every car that races has to undertake. Every racing club I know of does annuals, from my local vintage group to the SCCA, to NASCAR.
P.S. FIA certs aren't required, unless you do not want to mount the seat with a back brace, as long as the seat is mounted in accordance with the FIA required mounting procedure.
Annuals are your annual tech inspection every car that races has to undertake. Every racing club I know of does annuals, from my local vintage group to the SCCA, to NASCAR.
P.S. FIA certs aren't required, unless you do not want to mount the seat with a back brace, as long as the seat is mounted in accordance with the FIA required mounting procedure.
#40
You should contact your local NASA tech inspector that will actually be doing your annual. He as the final say, despite what the random "BenR guy on the internets" says.
If it was my neck as a tech inspector, I wouldn't sign off the log book to pass it. But I take my safety and liability seriously.
If it was my neck as a tech inspector, I wouldn't sign off the log book to pass it. But I take my safety and liability seriously.