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remote turbos. ha
what is everyone's opinion on remote turbos. They remind me of those "electric superchargers" but they seem to work fairly well (not great, but not terrible either).
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are you talking about the STS systems? On v8's they seem to work well. I'm leery of the oil lines and having the turbos more susceptible to environmental damage (think road salt), but if you have a super crowded engine bay, hey, it's a solution.
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There was a big talk about this on .net i think. They would be good for a vehicle that didnt' have the engine bay space, but otherwise I don't see the benefits or reason for doing it.
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My LT1 camaro has nor room under the hood at all. Just an example of when the sts remote mount system works really well. On a miata with the room that is avaible, I would just mont under the hood.
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if I had a cheap beater miata and nothing else to do... I'd do it in a heartbeat, just to say I've done it.
Hell it can't be that bad at all, people WAY over-exaggerate what they don't already know about these setups. |
It would be cool I suppose. Could make for a super clean engine bay, I like the look of the big snail under my hood.
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It would make a killer sleeper, but I just couldn't live with the turbo being under the car. I bottom out alot..
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it works on v8's, but I believe people bitch about 500rpm-later spool in hondas.
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The V-8 setups are sick. And it's a great idea if they wouldn't fit otherwise. Wonder what the spool sounds like?
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that one guy kurt rohmer is doing one i think
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it would work, but it's easier to build a normal system. besides who really want to have the oil lines so low and have to use a scavenger pump for the return.
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not me that is my main reason for not doing it.
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the heat retention in the turbo manifold/exhaust would have to be amazing to spool any decent size turbo i would think :confused: after seeing a few they deffinetly do work but i still wonder exactly how. they seem like every single thing you try to keep from when designing a turbo setup they have done. i understand trying to stay out the bay but damn.
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I'm with him^. Spool would SUCK. All that volume...
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I actually started a discussion on m.net about this a while back....lol pretty intreasting responses from the m folk :), seems like just a waste of time and effort from a performance standard on a miata.
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They seem like such a compromised version of a turbo that I'd rather just go with nitrous, if I had a V8 car with limited space.
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I think there stupid.
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I think they're smart.
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I think they are made of magic.
well actually I think they work so well on v8's because of the volume of air they can move through the exhaust. small i4 seems a little weezy for that much air to move, but I guess kurt will be the proof. either its very similar to a standard install/better, or its not and worse |
Originally Posted by kotomile
(Post 90405)
I'm with him^. Spool would SUCK. All that volume...
all that volume huh? yeah there wouldn't really be any more piping than with traditional IC routing. And honestly, there isn't that much volume when you consider how fast the turbo is pumping and how much the engine can flow/consume Its way over exaggerated. |
Where are you planning on mounting the turbo?
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why? just to be different?
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Holy crap that looks like more stuff than i would want to tie/mount up under my car. Power to you for undertaking such a project.
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Will do.
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t3/t4!? that would be big and laggy for a standard setup, but for a remote mount, will it ever spool?
Aren't you supposed to use a smaller turbo for remote mount to make up for the lost energy? |
when you get done your setup let us know how it goes! Is an STS setup cheaper?
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Well, good luck then.
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i'm not mad or anything, but i'm telling you, a remote mount turbo setup for a 1.6 based around a t3/t4 WILL NOT work. at least go with a tiny turbo it could actually spool, like a KKK KO3.
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Originally Posted by Kurt Rohmer
(Post 90642)
that's why i'm doing it myself. it's a learning curve, and alot of people here are PISSED that i'm trying. i haven't the foggiest idea why.
STS has a great site. From that sites FAQ, however, I must agree with Al Hounos about the slightly smaller turbo being a better choice. At least a turbo with a smallish hotside. Agree that "lag by filling the I/C pipes" is b.s. Bottom line: If it's different but works (a la Turbo Tim or, say, a twin charged..) people will give props, and it will be "cool." heh.
Originally Posted by mxv
(Post 90403)
the heat retention in the turbo manifold/exhaust would have to be amazing to spool any decent size turbo i would think :confused:
Doesn't heat create the velocity in the exhaust gasses to spool the turbo? No, heat doesn't create velocity. Heat creates volume. If you look at any of the physics laws for gasses, you will find that pressure and volume and heat are related. PV=NRT is a popular one, The V isn't for velocity, it is for Volume. The turbine housing is what creates the velocity. The scrolling design that reduces the volume of the exhaust chamber as it scrolls around causes the gasses to have to increase in velocity and pressure to maintain the same flow rate. |
Originally Posted by UofACATS
(Post 90658)
I'm stoked you're doing it. Nobody's pissed. I've only read about the v-8 kits, but from that info I say it'll work.
STS has a great site. From that sites FAQ, however, I must agree with Al Hounos about the slightly smaller turbo being a better choice. At least a turbo with a smallish hotside. I am very interested in your progress. I am seriously considering a similar kit for my brother's saturn. |
just mount that turbo as far north as possible. you dont want to go through all that trouble and have drainage problems.
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i wouldn't post, there is no oil pressure on the return, the safest best it to make a sump catch, then you can run the oil pump off that.
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yeah very similar,
basically a aluminum catch can could work, drilled out to 1/2" you could use a small section of thread pipe to the return fitting, and screwed directly into the catch. then the pump can scavenge off that. that way the turbo won't backup and the pump shouldn't run dry. plus you keep everything as far from the ground as possible. then the return line can go up, down, every which way. |
Cool project. Best of luck!
I like that windscreen too. |
Originally Posted by Kurt Rohmer
(Post 90717)
one of the nice things about this setup is that i can swap turbo's with very little modifications, only the flange needs to be changed to mate the turbo to the exhaust. ALL of the other plumbing remains the same. once the system is installed, i could change turbos in less than five minutes. (remove from hangers and unbolt the exhaust flange and loosen the intake charge pipe silicone adapters.) here are some pics of the car...
. Frank |
I think with an .48 exhaust housing, and a reasonable compressor you'll be fine... I'd expect full boost a few hundred RPM later than a typical setup so probably around 12psi@4500 rpm. You will probably see positive pressure around 2600 rpm. This is obviously a guess, so take it with a grain of salt.
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Kurt, how do you keep the windscreen clean?
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Originally Posted by Kurt Rohmer
(Post 93086)
olderguy, i don't. the whole car is a pigsty. halfassed ideas and uncompleted concepts riddle the vehicle. if i ever win powerball, i'll pay someone to hire a top of the line machine shop to realize all of my hairbrained schemes, but for the time being, it's just me and my duct tape. and if something gets too dirty, i just chuck it and start over. (soapy water)
arkmage, very very good guess, i would probably postulate the same numbers: out of vacuum at around 2,500 - 3,000 boost to start after 3k, real boost (2-3psi) around 3,500 - 3,900 and then it should hit hard (6psi+) after 4,500 and like you, these are guesstimates, with a truckload of salt. fmowry, you give me too much credit, i've got no skills, just dogged determination, for better or worse. as for swapping out turbos, you're right. i am starting with the smallest chinese turbine i can get (not too worried about the compressor side, as i am more concerned with spool than with charge at this time), and cost is most assuredly the main consideration, but truth be told, i do like the idea of being able to step up from one turbo to another with very little hassle. i am not trying to change anyones perspective on what is "BETTER", - that concept is purely subjective, all i want to know is whether or not a 1.6 stock motor has enough exhaust to push a small remote system. STS has proven that the concept works and is viable for large cube engines. i want to see if a tiny motor can do it too! believe me --> if this system doesn't pan out, i'll gladly take the hit and wave off anyone else from doing the same mistake, and then meekishly get in line and get a BEGi. |
Originally Posted by magnamx-5
(Post 93130)
Im pullin for ya if us texans dont stick together what will become of the rest of the country.
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true that is why i am a libertarian :pitlab:
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Go for it Kurt. I am going to be rebuilding my camaro with thicker head gaskets to drop compression down and then make a rear mount centered around a t76. I cannot wait to start that project.
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5
(Post 93137)
true that is why i am a libertarian :pitlab:
that's why im a scientologist. :hahano: |
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Originally Posted by getsidewaysd1
(Post 93194)
just wait till Xenu hears about this! :vash: |
Very interesting. Kudos for trying something different. I'm not sure how you could percieve any performance gains from it, but ease of installation and such may outweigh that for you. Let me know if you need any material or parts.
-Michael- |
Originally Posted by boostinsteve
(Post 90303)
My LT1 camaro has nor room under the hood at all. Just an example of when the sts remote mount system works really well. On a miata with the room that is avaible, I would just mont under the hood.
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Originally Posted by Kurt Rohmer
(Post 90809)
hmm sump catch, like a catch can... intelesting, vely vely intelesting
man have I got the brain farts today, no way to mount a one way check valve on the pre side. so only one on the post turbo side, to prevent oil from backsliding. You could use a seconday oil supply in the trunk with an oil cooler under the trunk, and run the entire thing closed loop. |
I do a remote mount for my xB kit.. It's more a mid mount than a rear mount..
This is the original prototype with the bogger mig welds, but you get the idea.. http://www.zeropointindustries.net/g...y/IMG_1714.jpg |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 90813)
yeah very similar,
basically a aluminum catch can could work, drilled out to 1/2" you could use a small section of thread pipe to the return fitting, and screwed directly into the catch. then the pump can scavenge off that. that way the turbo won't backup and the pump shouldn't run dry. plus you keep everything as far from the ground as possible. then the return line can go up, down, every which way. |
The pipes are most likely ceramic caoted they do most of there products like that to save on heat. Sweet job nester :D
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Originally Posted by nester
(Post 97291)
I do a remote mount for my xB kit.. It's more a mid mount than a rear mount..
This is the original prototype with the bogger mig welds, but you get the idea.. http://www.zeropointindustries.net/g...y/IMG_1714.jpg Also, you might want to address that over stretched rubber hanger. i'd hate to see it break,and the turbo drag the ground. |
toyota reliability there are probably 3 others to take up the slack there. :rofl:
If you want more info on there products here is the companys web site. http://www.zeropointindustries.net/ |
Yeah, that was a prototype.. :)
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How will you control fuel? If your o2 sensors are before your turbo, is that going to make it hard to judge? Do you have to run a stand alone or is this the same as a standard turbo as far as engine control?
It seems like a cool project. I'm just trying to imagine how you control the electronics (obviously it can be done, I just don't understand it yet.) Good luck, should be really cool to see when it's done! |
I just drew up a quick diagram, I see it now. The turbo isn't really doing anything to change the exhaust. The gas before it is the same as after, the turbo is just in the way. Just seemed really backward at first. Good luck on your car, I hope to see pictures of it on here someday soon!
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Heres a remote turbo set up that looks pretty damn sweet. I thought wrapping your pipes was a no-no? A few places said it has 810 horsepower. Is the exhaust super loud like that?
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/att...7&d=1172016017 http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/att...4&d=1172008209 |
Please don't go with the pepboys welder. Go to home depot and pick up a Lincoln unit, or better yet, pick up a Clarke 130EN kit. If you go with the Clarke unit it comes with a regulator and everything you need to mig other than the bottle of C25.
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Originally Posted by iWeasel410
(Post 102681)
Please don't go with the pepboys welder. Go to home depot and pick up a Lincoln unit, or better yet, pick up a Clarke 130EN kit. If you go with the Clarke unit it comes with a regulator and everything you need to mig other than the bottle of C25.
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Very nice, both your setup and that Scion setup. I'll be doing something like this on my brother's saturn eventually. Keep it up!
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very cool, can't wait to see pics and vids.
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