Replaced Head Gasket... D'OH!!!
 

I think this thread will be a race to see who'll be the first one to call me a dumbass. But, I figured I'd give it a shot.

I pulled the head... not nearly as hard as I'd thought even though everybody was telling me it would be easy. It just took me some time since I wasn't following any directions other than "disconnect everything and then ubolt the head." I left both the manifolds which made things a little easier.

I scraped both surfaces with a razor-blade and put it back together. The old gasket didn't look bad, but I didn't know what would look bad anyway. It fired right up and was still pissing white smoke out the exhaust.

Old Compression Numbers 1-4:
191 189 130 125

New Compression Numbers 1-4:
205 195 135 125

When I pulled the #3 spark plug, there was steam coming out of the cylinder.

NOTICE ANYTHING SIMILAR? Yup, replacing the HG didn't do shit! I suspect that my head is warped a little after all... does anybody concur?

sounds like a warp to me or at least the head is not seating properly at the back end.

what are the compression numbers in your sig?

Probably... and you can probably still use that head gasket if it doesn't look harshed.

Mark

Did you check the block/head for flatness while it was off?

Did you replace the head bolts or have ARP studs?

Did you clean the threads in the block and oil the threads on the fastener when putting it back together?

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

use some restore, its garenteed to raise compression, lol and when all else fails, JB weld, or quicksteel

LOL, did I not tell you to take the head to a machine shop and have it planed? Do it, and while it's off again, check that the block is not warped with a straight edge and feeler gauge. .004" (1mm) is max acceptable gap.

No.
No.
No cleaning, but did oil. Now that it's had a heat cycle through it, do you think it would be worth it to pull the valve cover and torque the bolts again?


You did, and I will. Hopefully my shop isn't taking too much time off for the holidays.

Well, at least the work this time won't take as long. I think the total job to remove the head took about 4hours... that's 1hour to do the work, and 3hours of cleaning along the way.
Reinstall took about 3 hours, but 1hr of that was to re-wrap my heater core hoses with new wrap.

I guess the wise man that told me that was correct. Hope you get it sorted out quick and with little hassle.

Jay

All squids have weird heads. :)

dumbass.... I WIN! :)

what do i get?

ohh,by the way.... sorry to hear what happened :(

any chance you have a reference as to where i can get the torque ratings for each bolt while taking stuff apart?

torque ratings don't matter when you are taking things apart. apply enough torque that the nuts/bolts break loose. :D

when putting things back together try these specs http://www.miata.net/garage/torque.html

do you take a look at the cylinder walls while it was off? were #3 and #4 pistons cleaner than the rest?

I did. All the pistons and cylinders looked exactly the same. No scoring on any of the walls and only what I would call "extemely minimal" carbon buildup on the piston-tops and combustion chamber. Overall, it looked REALLY clean.
This time I will have the head planed and I will gauge the block. I will also clean the threads with the proper tap.

How much and where to buy upgraded head-bolts and what is the benefit?
If the motor finally blows at some future point and I decide to go with a mild build, can I reuse the ARP's that I might buy now?

GoKuUx, you win a smilie!:friday:

ARP studs, cheapest place I've seen is miataroadster.com. but I'd say f-it on this motor.

Yes, studs are re-usable. You can swap them over to a new motor. They are very much worth the investment in my opinion. even more so since i've had stockers stretch on me before.

I've never had a head milled or checked by a shop. I just use the edge of a metal yard stick and feeler gauges. If you are within .004 on both sides you should be in good shape.

Sam,
I have a 1.6 engine calling your name. Give me a call.

thanks for the help paul... but i looked there already, and i was looking for specific torque ratings for like... lifter bolts and such

as for samnavy... if you have a 1.6L...

https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14945

transfer what is needed from the old motor to the new

Can you show me a picture of said "lifter bolt", i think you are on crack. the closest thing I can think of would be a "cam bearing cap" which hold the cam down on top of the lifters.

Do they stretch during the removal process or simply over time of being installed. They only need to last until the motor really does blow up if I reinstall them now. The motor does have 150k after all.
PM'd sir.
Nice idea, but looks like too much work if I really just need the head planed to be good. We'll see just how f-ed up it is when Abacus gets ahold of it.

they stretch during install when they are torqued down if they are even slightly overtorqued. once their yield point is exceeded they will continue to stretch after install when peak cylinder pressure is hit. I know this because my car would idle great with no leaking or oil consumption. But when it was rev'd it would burn oil and spit oil and water out of the side of the head gasket all over the block. it wasn't pretty.

Theres also the factor of did the head have any gasket bite to seal the head gasket. When you pull the head even if it true and not warped the face of it could be to smooth and not seal good. Also you should let the engine warm up on a new head gasket with no load or high revs then drive it for about a good 15-20 than come back let cool down a bit and retourqe the head studs back down to seat the head gasket. This is the same thing i did on rebuild except geting the head resurfaced but you could see and feel the tool marks on it still.

Please quit the internetz. goodbye....

Here are some pics after the second removal.

I have not touched the valves at all, what you see is how they were. The pistons I only wiped clean, no scrubbing at all. The cylinder walls of #2 and #3 feel prefectly smooth to my highly calibrated fingernail. Everything looks pretty good to me.

I used a standard combination square and a .004 feeler gauge and it was fine. I went all the way down to .0015 (my smallest one) until it started fitting under, and even at that I can't be sure due to the inconsistancy of my square. Both the head and the block were good. Again, the engine has never overheated... in fact, the one thing I've never had any issues with is heat.

The plan now is to get in touch with a guy in town who has a 200k mile complete engine for cheap. I've gotta swap in a new clutch disc (going with the 6puck) anyways, so it makes sense to pull the current motor, remove the tranny on the workbench, then tap the pan of the new motor, and drop it in with the clutch/tranny already on.

The other option is to take the head to a local machine shop and have them shave it just to be sure and then get some ARP studs and try it again.

The kicker is that I can get this used motor in town (high miles but female driver and a LONG commute) for less than half of the headwork/studs.

While I'm beating the 200k mile motor into the ground, I can start acquiring parts for a mild build on my current motor. I might be on the lookout for a '99 head, aftermarket moly-coated rings, stock rods, and ceramic coated stock pistons. I think we established that the recognized weakest link in the stock engine is the rings.

As usual, I'm looking for advice... what do y'all think?

sam physically turn the crank to reveal #4's wall. any vertical scoring on #3?

Sam: '99 head won't fit on a 1.6L block.

No vertical scoring on #3... #4 will check tomorrow morning.
DO'H!!! I remembered that halfway through a round of CallOfDuty4 and didn't want to get up to edit the post.

I've decided that I'm gonna buy both the motor and have the head done. Can't turn down a complete running motor for the price.

I saw someone selling OEM Mazda rings on m.net for $170. Deal?

What does moly-coating and shot-peening cost?

lol sorry arkmage... that's the bolt i was talking about.... my head was out of it since i was on medicine last night hahaha

Sounds like a crock of shit to me. I seem to recall seeing a set of new stock pistons, with rings and wrist pins for $200. Just the rings shouldn't be more then $75 or so. Course I could be think'n of a different car I was shopping for a while back.

When shopping for rings, I see several different brands/levels... some say "basic" while others are "premium"... what's up?

I won't be able to afford any fancy pistons or rods, but I think I can swing piston coating... How much and where?

When I have the head planed, should I be worried about getting a thicker-than-stock Head Gasket to maintain the same compression?

If I do want to have the current engine "rebuilt" while beating the 200k mile motor, what is involved in that? I assume I want to take it somewhere and have it done? What exactly are they going to do to it? How far will they break it down and what else will be reused? Bearings/races/pins... I'll admit I don't know engine internals down to the last little piece. Can I completely dismantle the engine and take it to someone in pieces to save on labor or what?

You can disassemble it and take it to them for them to machining. That might save you on an hour of shop time if that's how that shop works. They won't need the old bearings or anything because you'll want them to fit new bearings to the crank along with your new rings.

http://performancecoatings.com/

they do an excellent job, get their triple coat service. they will put a dry film lube on the skirt, ceramic on the dome, and heat dissipating coating on the bottom. I believe they quoted me $45+shipping/cylinder for that service about 2 years ago.