RotorNut's Build Thread
 

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Thanks to a bent rod from what I can only attribute to hydrolock, I am undertaking the following mild build:

1995 Block/Stock Head with:
- CAT Rods
- Triple Coated MSM 9.5:1 CR Pistons (Stock Bore)
- Undecided Rings
- ARP Main and Head Studs
- MBSP and MSM Oil Pan

I'd love to be able to afford to do some stuff to the head, but as it is, I'm barely able to afford this build. So I'll just lay low and snag a '99 head when a good deal comes around and do something to it.

Anyway, tonight I completely stripped down my '95 block. The cylinder walls all look great, so I have no worries that a simple hone will suffice. I'm glad I was planning on doing a timing belt change since the water pump was getting noisy, this was what was waiting for me behind the timing covers:
Attachment 212003

In any case, I'll be taking the pistons out of the MSM block tomorrow night to get them prepped for a triple coating job. I haven't gotten in contact with anyone to do the work, considering HPC since they are highly recommended, but also looking to see if there are local shops that can do it as well.

Also still looking around for a reputable machine shop and getting prices. I'm trying to have all the rebuild parts on hand so all they will have to do is source and install the correct size rod/crank bearings, wrist pins, and locks based on what they do, and then put everything together. One more order to Finishline and that will be done.

I plan on using the oil pump from the MSM donor block since it's newer and it's available for use. I'm pretty sure there is nothing wrong with mine, but seems like it's just a better idea to use the newer parts. The donor block was sitting for quite some time (couple of years), but there was still some oil in the pan, on the piston walls, etc., so there is probably still some in the pump area keeping things from drying out.

More on this as things move on. Or as I get questions...

should mount that piston/rod on your wall

looks like abstract art

sure does... enjoy the rods :)

I always keep the "offerings to the Gods of Speed" for show and tell. They don't have to know the car wasn't moving when it happened. Still, I'm glad to see that this is coming together for ya, and better than planned. ;)

That rod looks assraped :eek:
Good luck with the build. I was looking at HPC myself, they are semi-local to me (or where my parents live) and from speaking to one of the guys there, he stated that pretty much everyone uses the same stuff but differ in methods of applying it, the bigger the co. the better their equippment is and therefore the precision is better as well, and that's why they have the upper hand here, they are I would say globaly known for their coatings.
I still may go with them as they are actually cheaper than Calico, who is also local to me (NASCAR capitol FTW), but Calico is a very well respected name in the domestic side of things. I recommend looking into their main/rod bearings, H-hardness and coated for easier/safer break-in and longevity, and are good for .5whp lol.

One question...why the MSM pistons? Why not the 95 8.8CR ones?

Eric, contact Ben from Mazmart or Steve from Planet Miata on gettting a 99 head. They are normally good at having them and having them at good prices. Im glad to see the car getting the bottom end it deserves!

He bought the block from Ben...I think Eric is a cheap bastard like me and just wants to snag one up on craigslist for $100 like me.

Offtopic....but fancy meeting you here Leatherface..... ;)

Jared is in denial. He knows he wants boost again. :giggle:
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I want to incorporate the rod/piston into the car somehow so people can see it. lol Be a great topic starter. Speaking of which, I still have to send off the injectors to see if it's stuck open and caused this problem in the first place.

XxGoKoUxX - Thanks for the great deal man, you have no idea how much you helped out!

Machismo - Thanks for the support! I can't wait to have it back on the road again!

Zabac - I'm using the MSM pistons mainly on recommendation, but as it was explained to me, they will spool the turbo a little faster, be nice for power outside of boost, and help maintain a better fuel efficiency, which is good as the car will return to daily driver status as soon as it's completed. I'm not concerned about maintaining lower compression since super high power is not my goal, which is also a reason I didn't go forged on the pistons.
That and if you look closely at the second picture of the bent rod, you will see that there is a small chunk missing out of the piston skirt on the right side of the piston (the side that is against the ground). I never found the piece, so no telling how long it's been like that. So I only had 3 good pistons.
I've also been looking at Calico based on your build thread and some other people's recommendations. I'm going to let the machine shop do what they do, but let them know at the same time, I'd prefer parts from Calico.

Jared, nice to see you over here man! This car is nothing like the car you sold me anymore! :) But that's a good thing! I just miss driving it now... And I agree you're in denial. One day you'll realize it.

And yes, a $100 '99 head would be great!

Not that there's a huge difference between 8.8 and 9.5, but why not use the more efficient pistons? This car is a daily driver and Eric's got a standalone that provides timing resolution to .25° and "only" a GT28 turbo. Not like it's a high boost drag car.

These MSM guys are doing real well on stock internals with 250-300 whp daily drivers with better turbo hardware and management. And have you seen Y8s' 10:1 car's plot?

Thats great to know. Can they be used in a 1.6L block?
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I may be wrong, but I don't think they'd work so well.
1.6L are a 78mm bore right? 1.8L pistons are an 83mm bore. That's a 5mm overbore, or 0.200. I don't think the 1.6L block has that much room. Also because when Mazda made the BP, they lengthened it to make room for the larger bore.

Thanks, makes sence.
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It kills me at how similar eric and i are at modding stuff. Id basically do the same thing hes doing now. Everyone, im not in denial!!!!! then again, i caught myself looking at manifolds the other day.....http://www.anaitgames.com/wp-content...ader_nooo1.jpg i must leave this place at once!

Some addictions can never be pacified...... ;)

Nah, I get it I just figured since he has both, I would do the same thing were I in his shoes. And I didn't know the 8.8's had a chunck missing :giggle: .

This thread makes me wanna quit my job and go build my motor... :(

+1, that bare block sitting across from my desk is screaming for attention.
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Mine is now in a cardboard box, buried in my garage...so sad.
But at least I got my car back yay!!!!

Try having two blocks and boxes of new parts, OEM and aftermarket, staring you in the face begging to be used. Dual feed rail, turbo blanket, revised BEGi downpipe, stainless steel lines, I could go on... Geez, I cannot wait for this to be done!!!

So I'm taking a break from the engine work for a minute. Here is an update of tonight's activities:
Buffed the gasket residue off of the head surface, one of the techs and I took a straight edge and feeler gauges to it and found that it is not warped at all, so great news there, and less work later.
Then took the straight edge to the turbine outlet, found the one problem spot that I knew existed (because there was exhaust residue on the hood :vash: ) and got it straightened out.
Told my buddy that I needed to take the EGR elbow off the manifold since I'm plugging it (don't have the valve, might as well finish the delete), walk off to get a tool I needed, when I hear him grunt and then say "Oops." The elbow didn't exactly turn, so the fitting in the manifold sheared off. So now I have to remove the manifold from the head and get the turbo off so that we can extract what's left. Oh well, can't complain about free help from a master tech.
In any case, when I'm done with my break, I'm taking the pistons out of the MSM motor, and then I'm quitting for the night.
Pictures up later this evening maybe.

This project must be surrounded by shitty luck... I pulled the pistons and rods out of the MSM donor block just a few minutes ago, everything went fine. Start cleaning everything up and find that one of the pistons has two small chips on the corners of the dome, definitely not usable. Fuck!

Pictures of the chips out of the piston top.
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Head:
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My CAT forged rods got here today though, so that helped the bad mood I was in on the way home from the shop:
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woah dude that blows!

Just get it over with- http://www.bellengineering.net/produ...roducts_id=243

You know you want to.
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So what are you going to do about pistons now? Forged? Or cheap used ones. I think somone here had some for free...search for sale section...

I'm going to find another set of used OEMs. The free ones on here are already gone, Ben had tried to get those for me. I have a lead on some 9.0:1 out of a '96 though.

SHUT. UP!




Besides, IF i ever returned tot the darkside, i wont be doing it with an s kit;) (not theres theres anything wrong with them)


Eric, ill see if i can find any pistons here locally

All or nothin' at this point RotorNut.....
Hang in there....it will live.
"The only reward for patience is - Patience"
The reward for your efforts however shall net one bad Ass little runner!

Got the pistons in my hand. The damage on #3 piston looks like detonation to me.

This motor looks like it was run HARD. The block is great though for someone's rebuild.

hey Eric

Steven I think still has the pistons and rods. Now that you have the forged one you don't need to worry about the lack of end caps. You could at least check out his pistons. If anything I will try and get him to bring them to the meet tomorrow and I will look at them for you and take some pictures.

Call or text me about it if you want.

BTW the rods look bad ass.

RotorNut man get this ASAP. Sell your rods to someone and just pick up a 99 head. This is a really good deal for $300 dollars. Hurry its gona end soon. This block already has je pistons,paulter rods,arp main studs,turbo drain installed,turbo feed installed, head gasket, timing belt, pulleys, water pump, oil pan. everything in the picture is included.
If I my car didn't have a 1.6 I would have bought this thing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...281855170&rd=1

hmm, it's local but I'm not sure if a 94 block with 25k hard boosted miles is worth that kind of money. I think he's on a better path with billet OP gears, forged rods, coated pistons, and MBSP. Built and balanced FTW.

Brian, Stephen just called me back on them. I'm going to see if I can make it to the meet tomorrow, inspect them, and buy them. Just take Britt's Miata. Thanks though!

Yeah, that's a damn good deal considering the price of the parts, but Ben makes a good point. Also, he told me the seller has some bad history that I think I will avoid. And the pistons look like crap, black in the middle and white on the edges, it's been dogged.

That's the motor from the guy who ripped off Bruce (olderguy) and some other people. That motor he sold to somebody and never shipped, don't remember who though.

Bad karma there.

Well its good to know, I was almost gona buy it...

After I got screwed on that 99 head i bought a while ago, ill never buy a built anything ever again. I sourced a set of stock pistons in good shape locally eric if you want em.

suppose to tell me you got them so i threw away the 330$ receipt but wahtever *shrugs* glad you're happy you got the CAT rods...they look nice don't they? :)

Thanks man! LagunaRoadster is selling me the pistons out of his '96 motor. If there is anything wrong with them, which there shouldn't be, I'll give you a call.

Eh, figured you'd read the thread and see. But oh well. They are very nice, can't wait to put them to good use! Thanks again!

supra441979, you are a fucking moron. hope you really enjoy that stolen, beat to fuck block.

At this rate, you need to go ahead and get them, just in case. :giggle:

anytime buddy... hopefully somewhere down the line i'll have some extra cash on the side a few years from now to do a monster miata or a 400RWHP miata.... i know what i need and what i need to do, i just haven't got the monies :(

Very funny... :fawk: lol

First part of my update, and this may be common knowledge to some, but for people (like me) who are comparing t25/t28 turbos, this was a good quick reference tool:

Lets break it down.
The GT2871R is known as ....well....the GT2871R
The GT28RS is known as the GT2860R
The GT28R is known as the GT2560R

TURBINE
GT2560R
* Wheel: 53mm w/ 62 trim
* Housing: .64 ar

GT2860R
* Wheel: 53.85mm w/ 76 trim
* Housing: .64 or .86 ar

GT2871R
* Wheel: 53.85mm w/ 76 trim
* Housing: .86 or .64 ar

COMPRESSOR
GT2560R
* Wheel: 60mm w/ 60 trim
* Housing: .60 ar
Flow : 320hp

GT2860R
* Wheel: 60mm w/ 62 trim
* Housing: .60 ar
Flow : 350hp

GT2871R
* Wheel: 71mm w/ 56 trim
* Housing: .60 ar
Flow : 400hp

Anyway, after a day full of research (and one failed attempt at picking up a turbo because of a dishonest or confused seller) I'm trying to find a .64 a/r GT2871R turbo because I think that at 15psi, I'm about at the limits of the 2560R, and the 2871 isn't too big of a turbo for our cars.
I'm just concerned as to if it's a worthwhile move, or if I should be happy with what I have for a mildly built daily driver. Input?

In any case, my ARP head and main studs arrived today. Got a pretty good deal I think at $185/shipped for both.
Still got to get the pistons coated, and then the block and parts can go to a machine shop. Need to test the injectors and make sure that they aren't responsible for this mess. And now I need a passenger side rear brake caliper, because mine seized up and won't release the e-brake unless you reach under and release it manually. No amount of PB Blaster and working it will free it up.

And I'm hoping the GB and actual production of the billet oil pump gears doesn't take much longer, as I'm sure others are as well. I'd like to get them installed at the same time as all the other work instead of having to pause the rebuild to wait for them to arrive.

I know for a fact on that car the turbo started to run out of juice after 15psi. If your looking for more power, i say GT2860R

Fuck that. The 71 was designed by Garrett to stomp out the 60 (newer, more efficient blade design). ;)

But how much later will it take for the 71 to spool? Or because of this new blade design is it close to the 60?

No real world difference in spool. As I understand, the upgrades are in the compressor side.

Eric, you know you can get that local 71 and change exhaust housings right? I mean, if it's cheap enough.

Yeah, I know. It wasn't that great of a price though. And the guy was a dumbass.

Well, finding a nice, used 2871 for a decent price has proved almost impossible. I'm beginning to just think it might be a wiser idea to stick with the 2560 I have, go with BEGi's new manifold, and be happy with it since the car is going to be a daily driver.

the turbo never did you wrong dude. even though id like to have it again, i think you should keep and put the new manifold on.

or just have the old manifold cleaned up on the inside

I am with Ben on this one, just sit down and clean up the old manifold.

I might look into that. Just sit down with the Dremel and go at it. I have plenty of the attachments to get it done.
On the other hand, I'm pretty sure no matter what I do, it will never be as efficient as the newer design.

Would you happen to have the torque specs for the bottom end? (Rods, mains, clearances) I cannot find them anywhere?

Nope, sure don't. Leaving that to the machine shop.

OK, noob question time.
The OEM rods have pressed-in wrist pin bushings. Do the CAT rods require bushings for the wrist pin, or just machining to make them fit?
Just as a side note, my wrist pins fit perfectly into the CAT rods, which is why I ask.

So I got some seals, gaskets, belts, pumps, pulleys, and bearings from Finishline to rebuild the engine and trans. Oh, and the Workshop Manual too since they are on sale.
Not from Finishline are my ARP head and main studs and the pulley/bracket for adding a/c without power steering.

Attachment 211141

And while I was at it, I snagged a set of MSM pedals and an oil cap, not exactly needed, but oh well.

Now, it's time to take the pistons to get ceramic coated and the rods cryo treated.
Then, to the machine shop.

Anyone have an answer to my question in the post above?

So today ended on a good note, this showed up on the doorstep:

56 Trim GT2871R (743347-2) - .60/.64
Hopefully will be a nice bump in power! And of course, I took it apart, but I needed to because the turbine housing is going off to get ported, fit for 10mm studs, have the cast-in divider (which is a nice feature) finished, and ceramic coated by BEGi along with the new manifold.

Pictures of course:
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Been busy as far as acquiring parts go.
A couple weeks ago, I got my 3" Enthuza dual outlet exhaust, gently used, and got a great deal too:

Attachment 210641

Got my internals and valve cover back today. The valve cover is powdercoated, the pistons have a ceramic coated dome, dry film lubricant on the skirts, and an oil shedding coating on the undersides. The rods were simply cryo-treated.

Attachment 210642
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Also have these stock sized Supertech valves thanks to Neogenesis:

Attachment 210648

Unrelated to the engine build, I snagged these Tein SS coilovers w/ NB tophats and FM front sway bar (with new bushings).

Attachment 210649

Within the next week or so I will have a '99 head, 6-speed transmission, and a set of new 3.636 gears.

I can't wait until this car is on the road again.