Should I just give up and start over?
 

I feel like no matter what direction I go with my car it's the wrong way because it's a 1.6. I feel like I started out wrong by jumping the gun and getting a 1.6 instead of waiting and getting a 1.8. Should I just cut my losses now and sell my Mia and get a 1.8 car? I'd prefer to stick with an NA8 since I fit better in them than the NB.

Well, what are your goals for the car?

My goal was have it be fun, reliable, and quick. Like my power goals were 200-225whp and do it without going bankrupt and without blowing up the engine 3 miles down the line.

200-225whp and reliable?

TSE EFR kit
949 Big Grip Kit
15x9 6ULs
TSE wilwood BBK
6spd
VVT motor
MS3 PNP Pro
ID1000s
E85

And that's just it, that would cost me $10k, and breaks my requirement of affordable.

Sounds like turbo Miata is not for you.

Lol.

It's always best to start with a 1.8. Larger fuel tank, larger brakes, larger differential, variable throttle position sensor, more displacement, larger clutch, frame bracing, and whatever else I forgot.

If you're not planning on a track car then there is absolutely nothing wrong with your 1.6 car (besides a cheap 1.8 diff upgrade).

Unless your car is in bad shape already you're really overthinking this. If your car is trash and you need to start over then get a 1.8 if you feel like you need it.

Well fuck me then. Any alternative recommendations?

Yeah, this was gonna be my daily and weekend fun car. Only was gonna do autocross every now and again.

M45 kit with a Powercard.

Hmm, I've just heard people shit on that setup here is it good for some added power?

When I was in high school/college I ran this exact setup for autocross. Ended up as class champion two years in a row. On a 1.6 diff, too.

Edit: Turbo is/was better, but if it gets you going out there having fun then I can't hate on it too much.

Okay, would an M45 be good for 150whp? Like with MS2, injectors and and TDR intercooler?

$3850 for MKTurbo with an EBC and you can hit the power level you want. Then budget $500-$1000 for a new rear end. Budget $300 to upgrade to 1.8 brakes. Then another $300-$400 for a clutch. You will then have a reasonable reliable miata with 200whp. It is the setup that Braineack ran for 8 years or something.

Whoa, whoa. No. I wasn't implying you should use the M45. It sucked and was constantly finicky. I was just stating that I was able to be fast on cheap parts that everyone hates.

Turbo > all
Success!

Your kit runs a T3 right? How's the response on it?

​​​​​​​https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b5ca53617d.jpg

​​​​​​​Dang, on just 10psi? I'll just have to buckle down and save as much as I can

This. Or try out the new Kraken cast subaru TD04 mani. Don't need the 1.8 brakes on a street/daily. Just get some good pads. You can do a 1.8 open for about $300. I have been getting away with my 1.6 VLSD at 150hp for the last 5k miles though.

Really though,for budget 200hpish street car.

Decent quality kit (MK turbo or something similar, even one of the old Greddys will work if you can find it.)
Megasquirt
AEM UEGo
FlowForce injectors
FM clutch
1.8 diff.
Intercooler setup.
Done.

It costs $4000-5000 to properly boost a miata for the street.

I've seen kraken's stuff and it's great. But I really want a complete kit personally

Yeah, that's usually including a diff and clutch right?

Just a clutch, because a proper miata will already have a good diff.

$4000-$5000 assuming you're starting with a solid base.

Mine's an NA6 so no Torsen

Time for some basic arithmetic.

MKTurbo $3850
96 Torsen $550
Clutch with flywheel $670
$5070 total
Cooling and brakes have already been taken care of.

Well done, gold star. :)

Good wheels and tires have also been taken care of. Being in the South, cooling was a big one

You can do the clutch for cheaper. I would buy a used 1.8 stock flywheel. Then put on a 949 Organic clutch or a FM1. You can use the 1.6 949 Organic clutch, but I am not positive if it will hold enough torque. I would rather you not have to rebuy parts. That will get the clutch into the $300-$400 range.

1.8 diff is anywhere from $300-$1000. Just depends on luck, timing, and what exactly you want.


I can say when I was working on the price for my full setup. I wanted to make it as cost competitive as possible to what you will end up paying when going the DIY route. After seeing hundreds of builds on mt.net and doing several myself, I found that $3000-$4000 is about what you will end up cost wise on turbo parts to max out a stock motor. You can do it a little cheaper with searching out used parts, but you will be waiting for them to pop up.

This sounds like an excelent plan. On a street car, you can totally skip the lightweight flywheel (a used 1.8 one can be had cheap) and do an open diff for half the cost if you are on a tight budget.

And while the 1.8 is better, I can tell you for sure, a boosted 1.6 miata is nothing to sneeze at and a whole heep of fun. I have been enjoying my stupidcharger for the last 5k miles trouble free and my friend has a heavoly souped up greddy kit on his 1.6 crap can and that is a hoot (especially on 700tw all seasons.).

Yeah, I plan on getting a 1.8 clutch from 949 since it holds almost 300lbtq on it's organic disc, and I found a complete 96 torsen with axles and driveshaft for $550. And I might just go with a stock 1.8 flywheel

MK Turbo got Sonofthehill to 12 second quarter mile times. What is he running, about 15psi?

Damn, that's impressive. But I'd imagine his engine is pretty built

stock engine in STH's car.

For clutch, you could always do an eBay flywheel and 1.6 949 clutch, rated to 220 ft lbs. about to put that combo in my dad's MSM.... will report in my thread how that goes. Totaled $470.

I'd definitely like to hear how that goes! I like to save money where I can, but not cheap out on quality

I haven't been recommending the 1.6 949 clutch just because I'm not sure if my turbo setup will beat that torque limit. The 1.8 I know will hold far more then enough. I f you can stay away from wanting to turn up the boost to much then it will probably work great. If you think you might want to turn up the boost then I don't want you having to buy a second clutch.

I was planning on the 1.8 clutch because of it's greater torque capacity and pairing it with a stock 1.8 flywheel

Since no one else mentioned it, keep a close eye on the classifieds (and facebook). I just picked up a mint FM2 clutch on the dirty. Quality used parts are pretty easy to come by.

I wouldn't recommend SOTH's power as something for a newb to emulate on a stock motor. He had it last as long as he did because he knows how to tune. He was probably in the 280 range with his trap speed.

I know that my motor would have blown a long time ago if I had tried that...

225 is a healthy goal though.

The worst thing about having a turbo kit for a 1.6 is that you'll have to replace it with another 1.6 if/when you blow it. Or you'll need an entirely new setup as well.

Yeah true, or wouldn't I just have to change out the manifold if I went to a 1.8 later down the line?

Oh I check the classified section pretty regularly on here. It's always unfortunate because I never find something when I have money, but always find exactly what I need when I don't have money.

With the MKTurbo setup you just need the 1.8 manifold when you do the swap. Well and some slight changes in IC pipes.

That's what I thought. Obviously IC piping for a bit of a different engine layout

Ask him how that turned out :party:

Ha. Well, it WAS stock, til it popped. Definitely was well past the sell by date on that one.

I agree with Lars on the clutch stuff. In a stock turbo MSM we'll be fine but a 1.8 clutch would be a safer bet. Same deal though, can go with an eBay flywheel if you want something lighter than stock. We'll see how it balances out...

Theres also the ACT HD and Xtreme pressure plates good for 250-350 depending on the exact flavor disc. You can buy a complete kit for around $400.

Isn't that plus flywheel?

Well there's a big difference between street reliable and track reliable. If it is a street car only then I think you can get by with the 1.6L route (flame-suit on).

200-225 WHP can be achieved with:

-Your choice of log manifold + DP
-Megasquirt 3
-Intercooler
-GT2554R or GT2560R
-E85
-FF640CC Injectors
-Used 1.8L Open or Torsen Diff
-Clutch
-Radiator

Not having to be track prepped really opens up your options and that's what I think makes it viable.

I liked my ACT clutch, but I like both the FM1 and 949 Organic better. They are both cheaper and hold more torque.

Why would 1.6 vs 1.8 make a different for track? It'll still cost about the same to get either of them to that power level reliably. The power delivery will be better for the 1.8, but I'd think that might matter a bit less on a track car that's mostly going to be in the higher revs.

You also don't need E85 for that power level, but I'm sure it helps everything along.

When building a car for the track it justifies getting some of the best parts that money can buy with some in-depth research and testing. (Examples TSE Turbo kit, Xidas, Inconel studs etc.). Where as you can get away with a lot less on street cars. So if you are going to build a car for track use, it warrants the ~$1,000 1.8L swap as you are already pigeon-holed into buying quality parts. Any lost track time is expensive and can be worth the whole racing season in points for a TT competition. Any lost street time is just that, time.

What's $1,000 on top of a $8,000 track build? Not much.
What's $1,000 on top of a $3,000 street build? Quite a bit more.

Also I suppose you could make the argument that a 1.8L VVT @ 200 whp will be running less boost than a 1.6L @ 200 whp and therefore it's stressing the turbo less and less heat etc. But that's splitting hairs.

Yeah, Mia is definitely not a track car. She'll be going to the occasional autocross and track day, but most definitely not a dedicated track car. And for the most part I've got everything planned out. I just want to get my bullshit stuff sold right now.

It's actually pretty relevent, I went from 10 psi to 12-13 psi at my last track day and it was enough exhaust heat to stretch my down pipe studs when they had previously been fine. Swapping in inconel now.

The 1.6 vs 1.8 makes a difference because the TSE manifold is 1.8 only.

Gearing and turbo choice play a part too. My car with 3.6 gears and a 2871R at 8 psi is less fun than Aidan's old 1.6 with a TD04 and 3.9s at 10-12 psi. Roughly the same WHP, but his car spooled quicker and pulled out of slower corners harder. At ORP he was down at like 6 psi and I was at 8, but he came out of the corners just as hard.

This is the other part of the reason I am playing with superchargers. The JRSC kit can be easily put from a 1.6 on a 1.8 (which is happening far sooner than I would have thought!). But I am holding off on buying a turbo mani until I for sure have a 1.8 to put in. I want to buy one, nice, cast one and call it done. (the other reason for the superchargers is that I got them cheap, but in repairable condition and once fixed, just one kit will cover the cost of my 1.8 swap, and the other should cover the mani, downpipe and turbo.)

I would imagine so. I've got a 4.10 torsen in the mail and a buddy gave me his "kit". But I just want to sell the shit. It's a stainless manifold and a TD05 16G turbo, I would see it breaking after 3 minutes of driving. At least he gave me a treadstone intercooler and an innovate AFR gauge and boost gauge. Turbo and manifold are going bye bye

The only real silver lining for the 1.6 is that people, literally, throw away baller turbo parts and built engines for dirt cheap because of the stigma created by this board that the 1.6 is almost unusable as an engine. The absurd deals I've gotten on parts is almost unfair.

That's good to hear! I actually just made a list of all the things that I need now for my build and priced everything out so I can build in stages