So I drove a Rotrex on Sunday at Buttonwillow... - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 12-24-2009, 10:09 PM   #61
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Aw damn, now I'm off to research crank triggers which I've never even read about lol.

Like I said, a linear power curve with a peak of ~280rwhp would be ideal for the SSM car I want to make. 100 octane is pretty obtainable out here in East Tenn. with all the hotrods/muscle cars that like to go to "da strip, mang"

When you say modification to the IM, does that include a gutted 99-00 VICS manifold like ArtieParty and patsmx5 did? I've got a Fuji IRTB kit(hince the avatar title ). But I figure the hassle and headache one would go thru for the air-box fab work, tuning, and such wouldn't be worth the power gain. So can an AEM EMS do sequential fuel and ignition? For some reason I doubt the MS can't because I've never dealt with or seen any individual cyclinder chanhges.

I would love to have a powerband of a VQ37 in my miata . But I want to make sure that its possible!
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:15 PM   #62
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This is the first I'm hearing of this stuff Emilio. Perhaps you should detail the ease of turning up the boost more on your site so people know that they don't need to buy like another pulley or **** like that in order to eventually max the system. Granted you will need additional charge cooling and fueling, those things are a given. Information about the system itself though seems sparse to the buying public. Most people know zip about the rotrex.
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:25 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
. Information about the system itself though seems sparse to the buying public. Most people know zip about the rotrex.
Yes but were learning!
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:45 PM   #64
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Thats the point though, when you are selling something you should go out of your way to educate people. It expands your customer base.
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Old 12-24-2009, 10:57 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
Aw damn, now I'm off to research crank triggers which I've never even read about lol

When you say modification to the IM, does that include a gutted 99-00 VICS manifold like ArtieParty and patsmx5 did?

So can an AEM EMS do sequential fuel and ignition?
The MS PnP won't do crank trigger on the NA box without internal mods.
The DIY PnP and the MSII boards will.
Yup, gut plenum, clean up rough stuff. If you can weld a box section into the throat right behind the TB so that incoming air is less obstructed, you should be good. That said, the OEM manifold is a turd. Figure on getting frustrated with it and building something from scratch like most tuners end up doing. Savington's own 2871 turbo car is probably tossing away 30-40whp because of his stock intake manifold.

AEM EMS V1 and V2 do sequential fuel and ignition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
This is the first I'm hearing of this stuff Emilio. Perhaps you should detail the ease of turning up the boost more on your site so people know that they don't need to buy like another pulley or **** like that in order to eventually max the system. Granted you will need additional charge cooling and fueling, those things are a given. Information about the system itself though seems sparse to the buying public. Most people know zip about the rotrex.
lol

We have been sharing this info for many months both on this forum and the m.net. It's just that every time we start, the exhaust driven turbo and MP62 mafia open fire on us. Corky himself seems to have a radar for my posts. No one notices all the data we're sharing.

I recall how resistant folks were three years ago to the idea that 8" wheels were faster

Detailed instructions for getting lotsa power from a Rotrex

1. Remove restrictor
2. Add fuel

The rest of the stuff is not Rotrex specific. High specific output from a BP series Mazda engine with any F/I requires the same mods for charge cooling, ignition and fueling precision, etc. Virtually every Kraftwerks Rotrex kit, be it S2000, Fit, Miata, are all geared for max blower RPM with the top end restricted to some degree. So max boost is as simple as removing the inlet reducer and that takes about 30 seconds.
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:02 PM   #66
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I didn't realize I had typed anything funny.
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:18 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
I didn't realize I had typed anything funny.
Just you exhorting me to supply information on making power with a Rotrex. We' have been doing that for many months but nobody noticed, until a well known "turbo" guy said, 'it wasn't bad at all'. Just some irony there that only me and the Jackson's would get a chuckle from.

No offense!
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:29 PM   #68
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:37 PM   #69
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Well Emilio, TBH I just never saw or read about the Rotrex in a thread or on any site until now, it's definately peaked my interest. If you couldn't tell haha. The fact that Sav, a well known turbo guy that does track events and autox's, says "it's deceptively fast" only helps hah.

Emilio does the Rotrex exhibit the PTFB you were talking about at all? When I had the turbo on my car I definately found myself using the throttle to steer. In my dad's STS miata I found myself at WOT as much as possible. PTFB would definately be a downside for me :-\.
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Old 12-24-2009, 11:37 PM   #70
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I honestly don't remember seeing anything on here, and I don't ever go on m.net. It has nothing to do with Sav posting about it for me. There is just no repository of info on the rotrex that I've seen on here.

To add, before looking at the new dyno in like the last week the only dyno I had ever seen was the measly 6psi dyno that was not impressive to me at all for the price. I only TODAY know that there is 0 upgrade needed to the actual kit in order to max maximum output. That only the usual supporting mods were needed. Whenever I remember anyone asking about it making more power or turning up the boost I only remember seeing your reply "we are working on a kit for that". I don't ever remember seeing "just take out the restrictor".
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:02 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
Emilio does the Rotrex exhibit the PTFB you were talking about at all?
Never. It's as Sav said, like driving a bigger N/A motor. Direct link from throttle to all available torque, every time, all the time, instantly.

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Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
Whenever I remember anyone asking about it making more power or turning up the boost I only remember seeing your reply "we are working on a kit for that". I don't ever remember seeing "just take out the restrictor".
Most inquiries have been about PnP kits. Those are in the works. From day one, we tried to let people know the base kits used the same blower as the race kits, the boost limit being set by the inlet reducer.

Anyway, hope its clear now. One can start with a YouTune kit which is no piping or ECU and do whatever you like. One can also start with a KW1 and gradually up boost as the budget for supporting mods allows.
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:18 AM   #72
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guys, I actually take offense to Rotrex is "only" easier to drive. somehow that implies with a good driver, lap time would be the same. and not an advantage.

fact:
Savington - a very good driver did a best of 1:58.1 in one of best and fastest turbo track Miata in the country. He (in a borrowed helmet) jumps into a Rotrex making 88whp less (on the same dyno) and ~100LB heavier, complained about balance and aero setup, did a 1:57.5 on 4th lap. that should count for something.
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:22 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
[*] Crank triggered ignition. NB 2 tooth at minimum but I'd recommend at least 4 teeth.
Where is the link to the group-buy on this trigger wheel and the how-to set up MS thread?
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:23 AM   #74
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that is impressive to say the least.
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Old 12-25-2009, 01:11 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
guys, I actually take offense to Rotrex is "only" easier to drive. somehow that implies with a good driver, lap time would be the same. and not an advantage.

fact:
Savington - a very good driver did a best of 1:58.1 in one of best and fastest turbo track Miata in the country. He (in a borrowed helmet) jumps into a Rotrex making 88whp less (on the same dyno) and ~100LB heavier, complained about balance and aero setup, did a 1:57.5 on 4th lap. that should count for something.
this.

It's not always about peak HP or even torque curve. It's the AREA UNDER THE CURVE (AUC) that makes a car fast.
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Old 12-25-2009, 01:49 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by longuyen88 View Post
this.

It's not always about peak HP or even torque curve. It's the AREA UNDER THE CURVE (AUC) that makes a car fast.
yah, area under the power curve, which a turbo car is going to have more of.

Its not all about power, response is important too, and thats the only thing that holds back a turbo car compared to NA or SC.
On paper a turbo car is the superior, but that is not the end of the conversation.
Making the car more driveable is not just making it easier for noobs to be fast, it helps anybody be fast. Why do you think Formula 1 cars have traction control? because its easier on the drivers? no. because it makes them faster.

My faith relies in a turbo being the best option and having the best potential when optimized.

Everybody is trying to compare apples to oranges, and basically youre all ****, shut the **** up and let the cars do the talking.

P.S. Im kinda drunk so hopefully Im making as much sense as I think I am.
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:11 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
fact:
Savington - a very good driver did a best of 1:58.1 in one of best and fastest turbo track Miata in the country. He (in a borrowed helmet) jumps into a Rotrex making 88whp less (on the same dyno) and ~100LB heavier, complained about balance and aero setup, did a 1:57.5 on 4th lap. that should count for something.
To be fair, my car should be much faster than that. We experimented with the GTC-300 (which I didn't have enough front aero to pull off) and the changes we made to try to get the car to rotate just made it very, very twitchy and nervous. I have no doubt my car would be deep into the 55s with a little setup time.

What you SHOULD give weight to is how quickly I was able to jump into Will's car and go fast - we all know the 230whp/light weight/big tire/great suspension formula works, but for me to get in and set the 3rd fastest Miata time at BW in 4 laps is the impressive part.
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:34 AM   #78
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methinks that regardless of if it's comparing apples to oranges, if after some tuning and dialing in for both cars the Rotrex'd one that is 90 whp down from your car Sav, turns out to be capable of an equal lap time, you won't be a happy camper. Both are saying they expect their cars to be capable of 55's..
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Old 12-25-2009, 12:27 PM   #79
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what's this non-USDM intake manifold of which you speak, emilio??
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Old 12-25-2009, 01:00 PM   #80
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what's this non-USDM intake manifold of which you speak, emilio??
That is interesting. I am wondering/assuming that a non-US manifold won't have to be provisioned for the EGR valve, so the the runners will be more equal-length than the turd we got.
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