So Summer's here! (heating problems)
 

I've done just about everything you should to keep the car cooled down w/ the exception of the OEM fans/radiator and relocation (because it looks too difficult and i dont want to start a project i can't finish)...

Here's the things i've done:

-Radiator flush(50/50 Prestone w/ water wetter)
-New radiator cap (came with radiator)
-New Koyo OEM Radiator (automatic)
-New Thermostat (i forgot the degrees it works on, but it came from napa)
-Dual Fans mod (it's not set to turn on when the car is on.... maybe i should do that mod?)

The problem is:
Before when the weather was 80 and under the car drove fine.... i did highway driving for an hr and the car wouldn't even get hot. But with the summer coming by and the 95+ degree weather of FL (which sucks monkey nuts cuz i sweat my balls off on hot weather) I attempted to do a 1hr drive to my girlfriend's house (from kissimmee to maitland if anyone's familiar with that) and the car went 75% on the highway... my POS metal OBX wanna-be short shifter got soo hot i could burn my hand if i left it there long enough. So i immediately got off the highway... took the car slowly in the backroads to her house until the overheating died down, when i got to her house i checked all my fluid levels and they were all fine. :mad:

is there anything else that i can do? besides godspeed radiator+new flex fans? i'm flat broke as of last week and i can't think of anything else besides those two and biting the bullet and attempting to do the relocation kit :hustler:

Uh...Cut up your bumper?

And since its summer and your in Florida theres no risk of your coolant freezing(I know anti-freeze has other properties too, I might still get flamed for this) you could try running a weaker(more water) anti-freeze mixture, since water cools better than antifreeze

oil cooler?

i believe that fatass front mount i have is what's causing major heating problems at higher speeds (the RPMS stay at 4000+ for an hour straight @70ish), so i don't really know about an oil cooler... i'm thinking about doing braineack's tip for other people.... 30/70 coolant/water mixture combined with water wetter.... OR run 25/75.... dunno if that'll help much but it's worth a shot right?

as for cutting up the bumper... i have the VIS wizdom kit... so i dont think air getting in is that much of a problem

http://i30.tinypic.com/33ou1jm.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/16kz2x5.jpg

Hi, I'll throw in my 2c worth. I have standard nose on my '91 MX-5. I had a big sucker of an IC. It was almost as big as the radiator. I also have a PWR all metal 37mm radiator and was having major overheating issues last summer. Oh yeah, I also has air conditioning. I had removed the under engine tray as the IC piping was in the way
I ended up fitting a smaller IC and modified the under engine tray to allow it to fit with the IC piping. So far no more overheating. I have read on the miata.net forum that the under engine tray makes a big difference to the amount of air drawn through the radiator. Yes the intake air temp is slightly higher with the smaller IC, but a small price to pay for resolving the overheating.

J

Hey Goku, I've faced overheating even before I installed the turbo kit. I too did all the things you mention and I still face some overheat. I decided to buy the Qmax system (which by the way has still not come to market :mad:). My suggestion would be to either do the Begi Coolant reroute or check to see when mkulak announces they have completed theirs.

I'm convinced that there is no other solution for those of us facing overheating problems.

I see (through) your problem. All that oncoming air is rolling off the face of your IC through all the holes in your "mouth". That's what is missing from your checklist: seal off air entry in front end. That's also the disadvantage of mounting the IC so far forward- the air that rolls off the face of your IC is less likely to enter the mouth and reach the rest of the heat exchangers.

I think I may have the same problem. I have had no overheating problems until yesterday. It was hot as balls yesterday and my temp gauge climbed slightly above the half mark. Im gonna replace my 10" fans with 2 12" fans. I have pretty much done everything else.
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Ha, I have the same issue with that. Replacing it shortly. No heating issues in the summer for me yet, just overheating :)

hmm... i'll take a look under there, i believe the undertray is still there, if not... it was thrown away from by my installer a while ago :( i even had the adapter for the K&N filter over at his house and he threw that away also

how has the qmax system been treating you? i may decide to do the reroute after i fork over money for bigger fans+radiator.... but i doubt it's the fan's problem(since this is at high mileage driving and not idle)

so you're saying i should move it back a bit? i'll try my best... but i'm not a professional welder or anything LOL.... i mean i can drill a hole at the bracket where the guy made the IC for me but that's the best i can do

yeah....HOT AS BALLS LEV!!! holy cow 95+ degrees owns me.... and i didn't wanna make it worse by turning on the AC on the highway lol

yeah.... well compy.... mainly you're suppose to put in a new shifter boot... i've been uber lazy and i dont have the money for it right now (what is it...like 15$???) but i'm pretty sure after you replace the shifter boot the heating problems will go away with that cheap assed shit-shifter

GoKu, as far as I'm concerned the PWR radiator and fancy spals didn't make any appreciable difference. If I were you I'd follow m2cup's advice and seal the front of the rad. I'm convinced that the best option is to go the coolant reroute way. BTW, check to see if your fans are working and try to turn the A/C on next time you face that issue. That will make the second fan come in.

About the Qmax; I'm still waiting for it. I got an email from Emilio informing me that now it would be available at the end of May at the earliest :mad:

Agreed. Mine just actually tore recently, hence the heat :(

lifting your hood in the rear increases engine bay pressure and reduces cooling efficiency at speed. it will help at low speeds and in traffic, but for highway you should put your hood back in the stock config in the rear.

I just got done with putting the thermostat on the back of the head and totally bypassed the heater and mixing manifold. It wasn't bad at all. The hardest part was taking the friggin coil pack off to be able to reach the rear of the engine. Anyways, before, I was hitting about 200 to 205 daily on the freeway (160*F thermostat, oil cooler, 2 fans) and today, I was getting about consistent 180*F at the front of the engine (160*, oil cooler, 1 fan). Next up on the list of stuff to do is to get the undertray back on or to make a new one from lexan that encloses the radiator sans end tanks.

ducting is the biggest key. your intercooler is too big and is is forcing air around and out of the nose of the car. If you duct everything up it will work better. My track got a v mount this winter with ducting that lets no air out. 1 hour track sessions see water temps no higher than 98deg..

Not to mention it looks rice as hell.


Like M2 said, seal off the radiator/ic flow so air doesn't go around it, but through it and you should have a noticeable difference in cooling.

Its ghetto, but for a short test couldn't you use cardboard to test where you'd need to place things?

and my god, drop the back of the hood down to stock.

I doubt you'll find a single intercooler setup here that required mounting. There are tons of threads with images showing IC mounting on this forum. It's usually a matter of some aluminum flat stock, bending and a drill. That location is poor ... and ugly, IMO. ;)

seconded on everything M2 said, seal so air can't escape around the rad and move the IC back. Also, water pump? Maybe the WP is on its way out and only gets ugly during prolonged mid-high RPM cruise?

i'm running dual fans, so the fans turn on whenever it's ready to... i will definitely think aobut the re-route now.... and i'll look up bell's kit :)

yeah...... damn heat! i think i'm gonna make that my next mod, the other day the car got so hot the CD functions of my radio stopped working (it said overheat) temporarily

thanks arkmage, i'll definitely lower it.... i had it raised cuz before i did a lot of city driving.... now with my girlfriend halfway across town i gotta make the highway trips :(

wow.... that's an insane improvement! i will definitely do that now!!

wth! that's amazing! i'll definitely try this too after the bell kit!

thanks for the advice... but i like the look of the big fatass intercooler up front, it was cheap anyways (i believe 50-100$?)... i will be running meth/water soon so i won't really need a IC pretty soon

will do mr ben sir... i PMed u a while back about the pistons you ordered man, you never got back to me :(

ohh... the guy who did mine's?(god knows why, but he freaking loves to weld...) welded the brackets for the intercooler.... yeah i believe it's a bit unnecessary but he did it....*sigh* if i could go back in time.... my turbo set-up would be insane(especially looking at some of you guy's setups!)

that's not a bad reccomendation! i looked up WP replacement, and man does it look ugly! (i definitely do not want to mess with timing right now)

dont wanna jack but would like more info on sealing the front end...I'm using a 18x12x3 IC so I'm not completely blocking the rad, and its sitting as far back as possible.

Please explain this to me...thanks

they mean seal all openings around the intercooler. so that it doesn't hit the intercooler, and move up/down/sideways and block the other air from coming in.... that way all air that comes in comes directly in

So no adverse affects from completely blocking the radiator? I went with a smaller IC to a) save money & b)not completely block the radiator (was a good idea in theory at the time)

i believe thats what they meant for me... for you i think they mean block the whole around the mouth so that it doesn't go in and back out or something like that... plus make sure your undertray seals up the intercooler so air doesn't completely go downwards

I'm a lil confused... Can someone clarify? In my case are you guys saying to make some kind of shroud/blocking so that in the reg mouth of the fascia air ONLY gets to the face of the IC...IOW my "mouth" will only be 18x12, so only air coming in will be on the IC itself?? sounds weird

There are adverse effects to blocking the radiator.

Couple things in play here. If you have to have your intercooler in front of the radiator, make sure they are stacked tightly together. The larger the gap between them, the larger the pressure drop will be making it harder for your radiator to transfer heat to the air moving through it as there is less air being forced through it.

Also, completely closing off the whole mouth and forcing all air through the radiator is a big factor. make sure any air that enters the mouth doesn't have a chance to go around the radiator. The only outlet for air to escape should be through the radiator.

The size of your intercooler core matters as well as design. my bar and plate intercooler covered the whole mouth of the car. And for a track car, I couldn't keep the car cool. I ended up having to semi v mount the intercooler so the radiator got fresh air to keep it cool. This shouldn't be a requirement for a street car.

The coolant reroute helps because it gets the hottest water from the engine to the radiator which creates the larges temperature differential allowing the radiator to be as effecient as possible. External oil coolers will help to - do you have a guage to see how hot that is getting?

At high speeds, if you have air flow to the radiator, fans aren't needed. but if you have an intercooler that blocks the mouth, in my experience they help - even if it is just putting a bandaid on the bigger problem.

Lower temp T stats are useless, and a aftermarket radiator shouldn't be necissary for a street car if the ducting is done properly.

Matt
(who has owned 4 FI miatas as track cars and only feels like he has finally kicked the heat issues with his final car...)

thanks matt for your imput... i'm definitely thinking about coolant reroute

no. seal the radiator to the mouth of the car. if anything, you might consider moving your intercooler some to allow air to pass around it to get to the radiator.

hmmm still a lil confused...

I have my 18x12 IC, centered in the mouth (from left/right), and directly behind it is the radiator, seperated only by about an inch or so due to ac lines.

The far left and far right sides of the rad are still exposed/not blocked by IC as the rad is wider than the IC.

I have the normal NA front fascia/mouth opening....

Is the idea to seal the rest of the mouth closed besides the 18x12 face of the IC??? Meaning basically the only air the radiator gets is what passes thru the IC??


I apologize to everyone and the OP, this is just how I am understanding it, and it goes against my current inexperienced logic...Just looking to better understand...
I dont quite understand how i can seal the radiator to the mouth of the car if the IC is in front of it...

pics maybe?? sorry so stupid, just again dont get how you'd seal the rad with the IC in front of it

I said radiator multiple times intentionally. :) Your intercooler blocks airflow to the radiator and is the enemy of your water cooling system. While it is common to put the intercooler in front of the radiator, the better design is to give them both access to fresh air. If you can monitor your air intake temps, you really should move the intercooler out of the flow of fresh air to the radiator until your intercooler can no longer keep up and heat soaks. (you could do this by moving it up into the nose more allowing fresh air to go under it to get to the radiator)

So for simplicity's sake, think about the nose of your car without the intercooler. seal all the exits of the nose off so all the air that enters the nose goes through the radiator instead of around, over, or under it. Now put the intercooler in there free floating and allow as much air as you can to get around it to keep the radiator doing its job.

Make sense?

my set up is a little different from yours, but I think you'll get what I mean. here is my car with the nose off...

LIGHT BULB just lit!!!

Now this makes alot of sense!

So basically get ALL the air u can trapped so the rad gets MAX air, then throw on the IC which will block alot of it, but still not as much as it would without doing this...

So whats the theory? Without this the air hits the IC and finds its way around the rad, but with this the "elusive" air will be trapped and routed to the rad..even if the outer edges of the rad?

Please tell me I'm close! lol
And thanks so much for having the patience to explain this (43x's lol)

wow very nice setup...my previous post was started B4 u posted that pic!
i can see how effective that can be! Basically giving the IC only what it needs, and providing the rad with the most air possible..

So can good results be seen with the IC still in front of the rad?? I guess it'd be pretty difficult to do what u did with a 18x12 IC

it'd be difficult to do with MY IC... *sigh*

Tony your setup is fine. As long as you have that plastic piece behind the bumper cover back in and you need to put your belly pan back on.
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Yea I'm sure, but wanted to understand this concept...pretty sweet setup IMHO

my setup is overkill for what most people use their cars for, but the concept is what matters. You'll get better results with any intercooler by sealing things up. If you can, get your radiator some relief by moving your radiator mount up some, or even tilting it at an angle so some of the air flows under it to the radiator. 18x12x?? sounds like a really big intercooler for a miata, but you should be fine.

You got it. Air enters mouth of bumper, gets trapped by shrouding, can't escape over, under, or around radiatior/intercooler/heat exchanger and is forced to go through. Cooling panels are popular to seal off the top, but the sides are up to you.

The theory is that it works off of a (wait for it..) pressure differential. If there's high pressure air in front of the rad and low pressure behind it, this promotes flow. This is why pressurizing the engine bay is a bad idea (lifted hood), because it raises the pressure under the hood and is detrimental to getting air to pass through the rad.

there is a reason million dollar race cars seal up the radiator to force air through the front, and create a pressure differential behind it to pull the air through. The also don't use fans because they know what's up.

Make sure to post pics on how you do this so I can follow your example.

Matt--Mad props on the shrouding

The two biggest offenses in XxGoKoUxX's car are 1) the IC is flush with the front of the car, and 2) there's open areas for all the air to just blow right through the mouth. Remedy those and things will improve. Even though you've move the IC back and reduced the rad exposure, sealing off the leaks will still get more air to the rad.

I feel like I've got a good handle on coolant temps at this point using a race radiator, sealing off the mouth and a hood extractor. And that's with a traditional FMIC setup. I did take advantage of some available vertical space and use a taller rad so it has some direct exposure to air flow. My fan has yet to come on stopped at a traffic light this year. That's with 80f ambient and sunshine.

I agree with Matt - I've come to the conclusion that if it gets temps under control without screwing anything else up, then it works for me.

Here's the exchanger stack and the current shroud job on the mouth:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...upcar/IC05.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...aseshroud3.jpg

Geez, I need to work on my shrouding I guess. I'm still using the stock nose deflector and undertray.

we need to have a pre summer tech day specifically to cut sheets of plastic into trays/shrouds/ducts.

I've got the lifts...

Indeed. I'd even take a day off work for it, since the rest of the weekends in May are shot.

Yeah, mine too, and I'm pretty busy next month as well.
The weekend would really be best for total access to lifts and tools.

That shroud looks awesome, what air intake and water temps are you running? Cruising, and under boost?

guys I highly recommend an air rivet gun for the shrouding work- it makes it WAY easy. I'm using a harborfreight unit that was $25 on sale.

At near 80f ambient coolant temps are 190f peak cruising or under boost - as long as I'm at speed. When coming to a stop they've never gotten over 92c oddly enough- usually dithering between 90-92c. That's after the hood extractor install. Prior to that, the fan would always come on after the car stopped at a light. I'm sure that'll change once summer sets in.

To complete the job, I think I need build an undertray like the factory unit to prevent the pressure rise from the underside of the car. Right now, any air coming under the front lip is pressurizing the back side of the rad- the only saving grace there is the extractor.

talk about taking cooling to the next level! holy cow....

these shrouding jobs you guys do do NOT look simple at all =/

It's really not that complicated. Use cardboard first to create a template for test fit. Then trace it over to sheet plastic and trim it out. Make your bends, hold it in place, drill and rivet. Doesn't have to be pretty either- it's under the car. :D

thanks m2! i'll definitely come back with pictures one of these weeks... and i'll post it up in here if things turn out successful!

Matt+M2 thanks for the great explanations, pics, and patience..lol

Matt, sorry thought i had posted it before...18x12x3 ic, i think its on the smaller side, or what several people are using..

Anyway, very interesting stuff guys...I have a sheet of abs plastic waiting to become my undertray, should have a decent amount leftover and might just have to try this!

lol... sounds like WIN!

fyi, had some decent overheating again today... FTL
It's kinda odd, drove it to work this morning...let it warm up, 3miles to the highway, 20miles on the highway, 2miles to the office...needle never budged...

Get in to go home, 2miles to the highway, 20miles on the highway (about 10in heavy traffic), 3miles off the highway, needle never budged..

I run into the store for 15min, come out start her up and before i get out of the parking lot i notice the needle is at the 1oclock position...Start to drive doesnt get worse, but not better either (only 1 mile to get home from store).

This was all with close to 90* temps outside and ac on....running 5lbs, 70/30mix
sorry i didnt have my laptop to give actual temps...

I dont have my undertray on, and I know that can be it right there...but kinda weird no?? Throughout the whole commute this was the last plae I thought i'd see a rise in temps...(ie more likely at idle after a stint on the highway, or at a light, in traffic,etc)

seems like it's not all just the undertray... but maybe your fans?

tvalenziano- run a datalog so you can see what you're temps are actually doing

Yea, I'm gonna do that...like I said I really dunno y I haven't already....just keep forgetting to take the laptop on the way to work...

Anyway, she's up on stands for now...adressing brakes (pads, rotors, ss lines, motul), gonna make/install my undertray, and while I'm at it HD lips...

Soon as she's back on all 4 I'll do a datalog and show you guys...

Fans are working as of about 20min before this incident happened...

I'm gonna do my best to see what different solutions really accomplish...
I'm on stock cooling system right now, as mentioned 70/30 (approx) mix...(no undertray/alum rad cowl cover)..

I have the ABS (as mentioned) to make the undertray, so that will be 1st attempt, got 2 12" fans, new thermostat, bottle of water wetter, and a Godspeed rad (on order). Also with the extra ABS I can look into making a fan shroud, and possibly sealing the radiator...
(sorry so long)

I can't wait to deal with heat on the track. I'm still worried that I'll have to hack the bumper to death.

I don't think hacking the nose is going to fix the problem. You need to cover the rest of the fundamentals first.

This comes from someone who has hacked up a nose without having the fundamentals done. And it didn't do anything.

It will get a proper shroud too, I just have too big of an intercooler to do what you've done, and don't have the fab skills. I have a stock nose on the car, the big begi intercooler, a 2" radiator, 24-row oil cooler, coolant reroute, and I plan on making a proper undertray...but it gets really, really hot in texas.

I'm going to start by closing up the front around the rad, then cutting a vent in the hood (hopefully the reversed mini vent is big enough), then move on to hacking the bumper.
I'm going to follow your example with my oil cooler too:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...upcar/IC05.jpg

I need to get all c6r-on this shit.