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Old 05-15-2008, 02:00 AM   #21
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dont wanna jack but would like more info on sealing the front end...I'm using a 18x12x3 IC so I'm not completely blocking the rad, and its sitting as far back as possible.

Please explain this to me...thanks
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:11 AM   #22
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they mean seal all openings around the intercooler. so that it doesn't hit the intercooler, and move up/down/sideways and block the other air from coming in.... that way all air that comes in comes directly in
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:24 AM   #23
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So no adverse affects from completely blocking the radiator? I went with a smaller IC to a) save money & b)not completely block the radiator (was a good idea in theory at the time)
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:29 AM   #24
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i believe thats what they meant for me... for you i think they mean block the whole around the mouth so that it doesn't go in and back out or something like that... plus make sure your undertray seals up the intercooler so air doesn't completely go downwards
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:33 AM   #25
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I'm a lil confused... Can someone clarify? In my case are you guys saying to make some kind of shroud/blocking so that in the reg mouth of the fascia air ONLY gets to the face of the IC...IOW my "mouth" will only be 18x12, so only air coming in will be on the IC itself?? sounds weird
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:41 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvalenziano View Post
So no adverse affects from completely blocking the radiator? I went with a smaller IC to a) save money & b)not completely block the radiator (was a good idea in theory at the time)
There are adverse effects to blocking the radiator.

Couple things in play here. If you have to have your intercooler in front of the radiator, make sure they are stacked tightly together. The larger the gap between them, the larger the pressure drop will be making it harder for your radiator to transfer heat to the air moving through it as there is less air being forced through it.

Also, completely closing off the whole mouth and forcing all air through the radiator is a big factor. make sure any air that enters the mouth doesn't have a chance to go around the radiator. The only outlet for air to escape should be through the radiator.

The size of your intercooler core matters as well as design. my bar and plate intercooler covered the whole mouth of the car. And for a track car, I couldn't keep the car cool. I ended up having to semi v mount the intercooler so the radiator got fresh air to keep it cool. This shouldn't be a requirement for a street car.

The coolant reroute helps because it gets the hottest water from the engine to the radiator which creates the larges temperature differential allowing the radiator to be as effecient as possible. External oil coolers will help to - do you have a guage to see how hot that is getting?

At high speeds, if you have air flow to the radiator, fans aren't needed. but if you have an intercooler that blocks the mouth, in my experience they help - even if it is just putting a bandaid on the bigger problem.

Lower temp T stats are useless, and a aftermarket radiator shouldn't be necissary for a street car if the ducting is done properly.

Matt
(who has owned 4 FI miatas as track cars and only feels like he has finally kicked the heat issues with his final car...)
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:45 AM   #27
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thanks matt for your imput... i'm definitely thinking about coolant reroute
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:48 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvalenziano View Post
I'm a lil confused... Can someone clarify? In my case are you guys saying to make some kind of shroud/blocking so that in the reg mouth of the fascia air ONLY gets to the face of the IC...IOW my "mouth" will only be 18x12, so only air coming in will be on the IC itself?? sounds weird
no. seal the radiator to the mouth of the car. if anything, you might consider moving your intercooler some to allow air to pass around it to get to the radiator.
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:49 AM   #29
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hmmm still a lil confused...

I have my 18x12 IC, centered in the mouth (from left/right), and directly behind it is the radiator, seperated only by about an inch or so due to ac lines.

The far left and far right sides of the rad are still exposed/not blocked by IC as the rad is wider than the IC.

I have the normal NA front fascia/mouth opening....

Is the idea to seal the rest of the mouth closed besides the 18x12 face of the IC??? Meaning basically the only air the radiator gets is what passes thru the IC??


I apologize to everyone and the OP, this is just how I am understanding it, and it goes against my current inexperienced logic...Just looking to better understand...
I dont quite understand how i can seal the radiator to the mouth of the car if the IC is in front of it...
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Old 05-15-2008, 02:59 AM   #30
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pics maybe?? sorry so stupid, just again dont get how you'd seal the rad with the IC in front of it
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:00 AM   #31
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I said radiator multiple times intentionally. Your intercooler blocks airflow to the radiator and is the enemy of your water cooling system. While it is common to put the intercooler in front of the radiator, the better design is to give them both access to fresh air. If you can monitor your air intake temps, you really should move the intercooler out of the flow of fresh air to the radiator until your intercooler can no longer keep up and heat soaks. (you could do this by moving it up into the nose more allowing fresh air to go under it to get to the radiator)

So for simplicity's sake, think about the nose of your car without the intercooler. seal all the exits of the nose off so all the air that enters the nose goes through the radiator instead of around, over, or under it. Now put the intercooler in there free floating and allow as much air as you can to get around it to keep the radiator doing its job.

Make sense?
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:04 AM   #32
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my set up is a little different from yours, but I think you'll get what I mean. here is my car with the nose off...
Attached Thumbnails
So Summer's here! (heating problems)-no-nose-2.jpg  
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:07 AM   #33
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LIGHT BULB just lit!!!

Now this makes alot of sense!

So basically get ALL the air u can trapped so the rad gets MAX air, then throw on the IC which will block alot of it, but still not as much as it would without doing this...

So whats the theory? Without this the air hits the IC and finds its way around the rad, but with this the "elusive" air will be trapped and routed to the rad..even if the outer edges of the rad?

Please tell me I'm close! lol
And thanks so much for having the patience to explain this (43x's lol)
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:10 AM   #34
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wow very nice setup...my previous post was started B4 u posted that pic!
i can see how effective that can be! Basically giving the IC only what it needs, and providing the rad with the most air possible..

So can good results be seen with the IC still in front of the rad?? I guess it'd be pretty difficult to do what u did with a 18x12 IC
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:16 AM   #35
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it'd be difficult to do with MY IC... *sigh*
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:52 AM   #36
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Tony your setup is fine. As long as you have that plastic piece behind the bumper cover back in and you need to put your belly pan back on.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:47 AM   #37
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Yea I'm sure, but wanted to understand this concept...pretty sweet setup IMHO
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:22 AM   #38
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my setup is overkill for what most people use their cars for, but the concept is what matters. You'll get better results with any intercooler by sealing things up. If you can, get your radiator some relief by moving your radiator mount up some, or even tilting it at an angle so some of the air flows under it to the radiator. 18x12x?? sounds like a really big intercooler for a miata, but you should be fine.
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Old 05-15-2008, 11:35 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvalenziano View Post
So basically get ALL the air u can trapped so the rad gets MAX air, then throw on the IC which will block alot of it, but still not as much as it would without doing this...

So whats the theory? Without this the air hits the IC and finds its way around the rad, but with this the "elusive" air will be trapped and routed to the rad..even if the outer edges of the rad?
You got it. Air enters mouth of bumper, gets trapped by shrouding, can't escape over, under, or around radiatior/intercooler/heat exchanger and is forced to go through. Cooling panels are popular to seal off the top, but the sides are up to you.

The theory is that it works off of a (wait for it..) pressure differential. If there's high pressure air in front of the rad and low pressure behind it, this promotes flow. This is why pressurizing the engine bay is a bad idea (lifted hood), because it raises the pressure under the hood and is detrimental to getting air to pass through the rad.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:06 PM   #40
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there is a reason million dollar race cars seal up the radiator to force air through the front, and create a pressure differential behind it to pull the air through. The also don't use fans because they know what's up.

Make sure to post pics on how you do this so I can follow your example.
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