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Old 10-14-2010, 01:26 PM   #1
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Default Some BMW dude asks some questions about something.

This thread has been an awesome read and i am looking forward to building a turbo'd miata down the road but its not going to happen overnight. I am hoping by learning from others here such as Savington, Hustler, and The Snowboarder... ETC. I would like to be able to build a reliable turbo setup.

Before i go boost i would like to get a grip of the car as is and fine tune my skills before i throw power at the car. I see a common upgrade is to go 6 speed so you don't grenade the tranny and what is the best head/block combination for boost. From what i read the 99 is a great head since it is more free flowing and with a mazda speed cam in there with the EDM Intake manifold. The 01 shortblock boasts the 10.1 compression pistons which seem great for N/A, but what shortblock is suggested for boost. Should i refresh my stock 95?

Once the car gets boosted i will slowly tune in more power on a overbuilt setup and progress into a faster car with fine-tuning a standalone AEM? Also, while fine tuning my skills, i will address suspension, brakes, cooling etc to prepare my self for boost. I like to have the car well rounded and prepared for what i am going to throw at compared to the vice-versa.
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Old 10-14-2010, 02:01 PM   #2
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Delete your post and search. All that stuff is discussed in the stickies.
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Old 10-14-2010, 04:33 PM   #3
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Delete your post and search. All that stuff is discussed in the stickies.
Yeah,

That would be really helpful except every thread that i have read so far is beaten to **** with fast and the furious jokes and mislead information.

I searched on multiple phrases to only come up with crap filled threads, searched in the saved useful posts area, searched in the engine performance sub-thread. So where are said stickies?

On other forums usually a experienced member would combine the useful information and create a hyperlinked thread but i guess i was mistaken by this forum and i assumed since this is a thread talking about reliability of turbocharged miata's on the track it wouldn't be a bad place to address what motors you have been successful with.
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Old 10-14-2010, 06:30 PM   #4
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That would be really helpful except every thread that i have read so far is beaten to **** with fast and the furious jokes and mislead information.

I searched on multiple phrases to only come up with crap filled threads,
Welcome to MT!

In short, for a solid setup - decent ECU & injectors tuned on steady state dyno, decent radiator with proper ducting (and leave the splash tray on), oil cooler.

Dunno what the verdict is on power levels requiring new rods and/or pistons though, I've not yet gone down that route...
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:14 PM   #5
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Welcome to MT!

In short, for a solid setup - decent ECU & injectors tuned on steady state dyno, decent radiator with proper ducting (and leave the splash tray on), oil cooler.

Dunno what the verdict is on power levels requiring new rods and/or pistons though, I've not yet gone down that route...

I covered that already, this will not be my first turbo car or track car. All i am looking for is information on the best OEM block and head combination to use for a turbo'd setup which i have not been able to find in any search and why...

Should i stick with my 95 shortblock and get 99 heads... etc

I don't get why people are so afraid of giving an answer, it wouldn't have clogged up this thread and would provide information other people are looking for. Or just assist with providing a thread since the search never queries what you are actually searching for.
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:22 PM   #6
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All of the 1.8L short blocks (94-05) are basically interchangeable. The 99-05 head flows better than the pre-99 and fits that block. The 01-05 heads (except for the MSM) have VVT so you need an ECU or something that can control it.

The main problem with the short block is the rods. Anything over 200 RWHP is getting risky. Over 250 RWHP is really getting risky. Stock head components (valves, cams, springs) work fine unless you want to rev a lot higher.

There are discussions on all of this on the site so if you want more detail go forth and search. That is all I am going to tell you. Sharpen your search skills. Use quotes, search titles only, read all the stickies, etc. etc.
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWidmer View Post
I don't get why people are so afraid of giving an answer, it wouldn't have clogged up this thread and would provide information other people are looking for. Or just assist with providing a thread since the search never queries what you are actually searching for.
Because rather than sit here and wait for self-righteous newbs to show up so I can answer their basic bullshit questions, I'm busy getting blown by super models. For that reason I recommend you do a few things like fill out your profile, make a welcome thread, read this, then read a few build threads.

This is a thread about turbocharged, reliable racecars; not a thread about fundamentals.

Read my build thread and Savingtons to start, then a few others. We've built very reliable street and racecars that can go for hours at the track and either drive home or break records.

I'll let Rick know the search function is broken. Don't worry about clogging up the thread, I'll clean it up with my faculties derived from the 99-head supremacy, the best set-up without VVT for these cars.

Hell, I bet you can make a thread in the meet & greet section and people will answer any question you want with a searched link.
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:25 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
All of the 1.8L short blocks (94-05) are basically interchangeable. The 99-05 head flows better than the pre-99 and fits that block. The 01-05 heads (except for the MSM) have VVT so you need an ECU or something that can control it.

The main problem with the short block is the rods. Anything over 200 RWHP is getting risky. Over 250 RWHP is really getting risky. Stock head stuff works fine.

There are discussions on all of this on the site so if you want more detail go forth and search. That is all I am going to tell you.
I've been running ~300 hp on stock rods for much of this year.
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:28 PM   #9
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I've been running ~300 hp on stock rods for much of this year.
I knew that was coming I did not say it was impossible, just risky. Braineack also made 300 HP on stock rods IIRC. I blew mine through the block at 250 RWHP. Many others have too.
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Old 10-14-2010, 07:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
All of the 1.8L short blocks (94-05) are basically interchangeable. The 99-05 head flows better than the pre-99 and fits that block. The 01-05 heads (except for the MSM) have VVT so you need an ECU or something that can control it.

The main problem with the short block is the rods. Anything over 200 RWHP is getting risky. Over 250 RWHP is really getting risky. Stock head components (valves, cams, springs) work fine unless you want to rev a lot higher.

There are discussions on all of this on the site so if you want more detail go forth and search. That is all I am going to tell you. Sharpen your search skills. Use quotes, search titles only, read all the stickies, etc. etc.
Thanks man, I understand how they are interchangeable except the VVT head will require a merge.

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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Because rather than sit here and wait for self-righteous newbs to show up so I can answer their basic bullshit questions, I'm busy getting blown by super models. For that reason I recommend you do a few things like fill out your profile, make a welcome thread, read this, then read a few build threads.

This is a thread about turbocharged, reliable racecars; not a thread about fundamentals.

Read my build thread and Savingtons to start, then a few others. We've built very reliable street and racecars that can go for hours at the track and either drive home or break records.

I'll let Rick know the search function is broken. Don't worry about clogging up the thread, I'll clean it up with my faculties derived from the 99-head supremacy, the best set-up without VVT for these cars.

Hell, I bet you can make a thread in the meet & greet section and people will answer any question you want with a searched link.
Already read savington’s build thread but he is on a built motor now, I was looking for answers on stock oem block. But I will go ahead and read others since I am sure I will be proven wrong. Already introduced myself in the meet and great section and my profile is filled out. Thank you! Also, that link that you posted is all common knowledge drilled out about turbocharging a car, where did i say i needed help with the fundamentals of understanding a turbo'd car. I was simply asking for best shortblock/head combo for a turbo'd miata which still isn't covered in that post. If you are going to waste your time and link me somewhere, at least link me to what i am asking for.


I thought since I accomplished those two things I might get an answer or two. What’s with all the fast and the furious jokes since you can easily answer that while getting blown by a model.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWidmer View Post
I thought since I accomplished those two things I might get an answer or two. What’s with all the fast and the furious jokes since you can easily answer that while getting blown by a model.
Give us a full run-down on your familiarity with all things related to cars so we can be certain to not insult you with useless details on rudimentary Miata facts. We all know that "which head flows the most" is not a basic question.

Again, please make another thread to discuss this or I'll move it over there so we don't water down this excellent thread.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:24 PM   #12
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I prefer the early 1.6 block for the strong key ways mated with a 06+ head.
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Old 10-14-2010, 08:43 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Give us a full run-down on your familiarity with all things related to cars so we can be certain to not insult you with useless details on rudimentary Miata facts. We all know that "which head flows the most" is not a basic question.

Again, please make another thread to discuss this or I'll move it over there so we don't water down this excellent thread.
QFT. Delete this thread jack out.
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Old 10-14-2010, 11:52 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
QFT. Delete this thread jack out.
Done. No idea what this guy is asking, although I read enough to figure out it wasn't on topic.

OP, don't take any of our bashing too seriously, your questions were valid, just a little off topic. Good luck here.
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:18 AM   #15
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my preferance on shortblocks would be 94-95 for the driverside oil and water ports to feed the turbo, if you can get your hands on a MSM block you will have an oilpan on it with a provision for the oil drain for the turbo (but you can easily drill and tap a stock pan and put a fitting into it) MSM block aslo have the driverside oil and waterports. so get you a 94-94 block and slap a 99-00 head on it and be done.

/Thread
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:39 AM   #16
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What curly said. 99 head is win. 94-97 has lower compression, and as you move up in years you get more compression. So yeah. There you have it. What else can be said. Although just leaving your 95 stuff would work. I don't quite know the HP difference between 99 head and 95 head boosted, but everyone who is cooler than me has a 99 head. Sooo you want a 6 speed. Then to make it geared non stupidly you want atleast a 3.9 rear end. On another note you know you are getting old when MTV is retarded bullshit you can no longer relate to. Is swinging upside down trying to grab beer steins really that cool? Oh breh, you spilled beer while passing it to the other doucher. Damn. That is retarded. It could atleast be hot chicks with their ******* hanging out like it used to be.
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Old 10-15-2010, 09:05 PM   #17
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Thanks a lot for clearing that up, i have the opportunity to by a 94 longblock for 100 bucks so i am going to take it as a spare. I wanted to make sure that the route i am going wouldn't be detrimental in the end since i will stay N/A until the car is properly setup but i don't want to have to do things twice.

My bad if i went off topic on the other thread, i was curious what cores and if people were running on oem internals to stay reliable on the track but i guess the other thread has more covering on development of parts and ways to keep your turbo setup reliable on the track. Opps
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Old 10-15-2010, 09:41 PM   #18
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Thanks a lot for clearing that up, i have the opportunity to by a 94 longblock for 100 bucks so i am going to take it as a spare. I wanted to make sure that the route i am going wouldn't be detrimental in the end since i will stay N/A until the car is properly setup but i don't want to have to do things twice.

My bad if i went off topic on the other thread, i was curious what cores and if people were running on oem internals to stay reliable on the track but i guess the other thread has more covering on development of parts and ways to keep your turbo setup reliable on the track. Opps
I feel ya, I did everything twice and it was very expensive. The best rule of thumb I can think of is headway. I look at people like Savington, BBundy, TheSnowboarder, and the rest of the gang and although they are running faster than me and 100whp more on similar motors (not bbundy), I've had a very reliable car and its not short on fun at all. If we ever end up with a reliable transmission option I may turn the wick up a bit but right now everything works all the time and I can run the car for hours at a time.

Strong rods and forged pistons are so cheap now that it makes sense to build a motor since solid motors like mine can be completed all said and done for <$2000.
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:04 PM   #19
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I feel ya, I did everything twice and it was very expensive. The best rule of thumb I can think of is headway. I look at people like Savington, BBundy, TheSnowboarder, and the rest of the gang and although they are running faster than me and 100whp more on similar motors (not bbundy), I've had a very reliable car and its not short on fun at all. If we ever end up with a reliable transmission option I may turn the wick up a bit but right now everything works all the time and I can run the car for hours at a time.

Strong rods and forged pistons are so cheap now that it makes sense to build a motor since solid motors like mine can be completed all said and done for <$2000.
Yeah,

I'm a big planner and it usually saves me in the end and that's why i was asking these questions although i want boost in the miata now, i know i will be much better turning the car quickly around the track if i take it in strides.

Looking at motor builds for the Miata compared to my Subaru is night and day, this motor is so cheap to build. The only thing that is more expensive is the oilpump but i can deal with that since i would rather be safe then sorry. I have had 4 failures due to the Subaru's oiling system sucking for track... I have done everything except for drysump and can't justify dropping that coin so i am giving up on tracking that car. Also the consumables are so cheap in the Miata i shouldn't be complaining and it doesn't plow like a f*cking tractor!!!

Thanks again for answering the questions, hopefully i didn't twist anybodies panties with my "Idiocracy"!
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:37 PM   #20
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I've recently done some reading on how "real cars make power" and I'm going to do a few other things to the head like:
http://www.theoldone.com/components/cylinderheads/
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