Taller gear ratios on a 5 speed
 

Hey guys, once again I'm thoroughly confused and need some assistance.:bowdown: I've spent the whole day searching old mnet threads on the subject and trying to make sense of all the info and I'm back to square one, so I have to ask for help.:mad:

Here's what I want to do: I want to get a shorter gear ratio on my car and I'm thinking about buying a set of 3.6 gears. The thing is that everything I read about it is based on a 6 speed transmission and I want to keep my 5 speed.

I want some simple suggestions on how to get the results I'm after without breaking the bank.

Brain, before you say it, I'll admit it: I know less about drivetrains than what I know about engines! :gay:

Thanks for the input.

Rafa

Ok, Paul thanks; now from your own link, see this:

94-97 36 59 84 112 137 (3050RPM @ 60MPH)

I want to change it to something close to this:

5-speed '06 38 63 90 120 147 (2873RPM @ 60MPH)

What is the cheapest way to go about it? and if I could I would even try to make the speed on 1st and 2nd gear even longer.

I'm I making any sense?

Thanks

A set of 3.6 gears would be considered taller gearing, not shorter. The 3.63s would allow you a faster mph at redline, or a lower RPM when cruising, however you want to look at it.

There really isn't a way to get 3.63 gears without breaking the bank though. They're quit expensive, if you can find them.

Ok, so then I'm looking for taller gears; I get that. By breaking the bank I was talking about a shit load of money but what I've read so far is that I can get a set for around $350; if that were the only cost involved I would jump on it. I've seen a couple vendors selling them for that price.

My question Chad is: would I get to have a higher (not so much faster) mph redline with a simple change to 3.6 gears on a 5 speed?

What has me confused is the fact that everyone mentions a 6 speed transmission when they talk about 3.6 gears and I definitely want to keep my 5 speed.

Yes switching to 3.6 is perfectly doable and it will accomplish what you're trying to do. The taller 3.63s will give you a higher mph at redline with your 5 spd. Considering right now you have either 4.10s or 4.30s unless someone previously swapped 3.9s in before.

This thing is then settled (man I'm really dense:bowdown:).

All you need is a new speedo gear in the transmission. Part number: M502-17-441

Thanks; from any Mazda vendor?

Can I take the opportunity to ask some dumb questions on this subject? As I stated before, I got absolutely no clue about drivetrains (sorry) :confused:

I always thought that for me to get the higher final speed on any gear I had to change speedo gears but I also get the sense that if I change my diff gears I would accomplish the same thing. Is that true or not?

The speedo gears are just so that when you change the gears in your diffrential your speedometer reads the correct speed.http://miataroadster.com/brands/mazd...vemechx200.gif
http://miataroadster.com/ They sell just the speedo gear i believe. Scroll half way down the page.

Shows you how much I know on the subject:o

I'll read about that one tomorrow. Thanks.

I know one day, all these dumb questions are going to bite me in the ass. :gay:

BTW, I'm going to start a thread in the BS section asking Rick to place my :gay: smilie back on the left side. I miss it!

Thanks for all your advice guys :bigtu:

Yep, cjernigan is correct. Sorry for being so vague.

reddroptop; when it is my fault you can fire away at will. You were not vague, I just go no clue. I do appreciate your assistance.

rafa- if you have any salvage yards with early 80s rwd 626/mx6 manual trans, you may find a 3.63 ring/pinion in them.

Thanks man. I just bought them this morning from mazdamart. It was their last set and I really wanted it.

I like your idea though (in fact, when I got married the first car I bought my wife was a 626 coupe with manual transmission:o)

What I can do is check those salvage yards for anyone who may be interested in this forum.

I appreciate all the assistance. :bigtu:

I'm interested...big time.

I've driven the red TDR car (260+whp from a blower) with a 3.63 and 5-speed...its really nice even with the blower. It would be god-like with a turbo.

Ok hustler. I'm going to the shop in 20 minutes. Give me some info on what do I need to ask the mechanics for. I plan to find out with them about Mazda salvage yards but I also need to know precisely what you guys may need. I presume I may find some diffs and then ask a mechanic to take the gearsets out; is this correct?

I have to go back to the shop tomorrow morning for what I hope will be the last time for the install. Ask and I'll find out.

3.63 ring and pinion. I can order a new one for $350 or whatever, so keep that in mind too.

One other thing; m2cupcar mentioned early 80s Mazda 626 but the one I originally bought my wife was a 79 and I recall that she also had an older 626 (73 if I remember) when she was single. If any of that generation appears, do I discard them?

Duh! even I know that. Not only that, I have to take into account what shipping them to Miami would cost. There is no way I would pay anything above $150 at the most for those. Don't worry about it.

Hell, if you can get it for that price sign me up immediately. I'll send you some cash for your trouble.

I have a guy at the wifes work with 4 626's sitting in his field, I'm getting one and I'll try and con the others off him but shipping them down south prolly would suck.

I'm down for it if the price is right.

they need to be manual trans- rotate one tire with the other "locked down" and count drive shaft revolutions - should be just over 3-1/2

I've yet to find one that still has the diff in it. All the autos are something like 4.3. The nice thing about these is the cars were so underpowered that the gears are usually in good shape. I'm not sure what years- but for the USDM is was the first gen - rwd.

Ok, I found at least one salvage yard locally. I can't go until next week but I promise to do so. Most of the 626s we use to have locally in the 80s were manual transmission cars. The price difference on the original cars was too great for must local pocketbooks.

The local salvage yards work differently (manual labor is much cheaper). You go to one of those and ask for a set of diff gears from a manual transmission car and they take them out of any diff they have laying around and then sell it to you.

Anything I could look for in that case?

Hustler, don't worry about any cash in my case; you pay if I find it but I'll let you know beforehand what they're asking for.

I'm confused about the shipping; are you thinking about shipping the complete diff? because my set's shipping costs were only $10 to Miami.

Whoa- I get dibs on a set if you find another. That'll make 'em way easier to ship. Here in the states that stuff is usually sold as a complete component and the buyer pays big shipping.

They just need to be absolutely sure that they are 3.63.

There's some confusion here. I bought mine from mazdamart in Atlanta. I did so because when I contacted them they told me they only had 1 set left. The shipping for those from Atlanta to Miami was $10 if I'm not mistaken. I'll verify that and get back to you. On the other hand, any 626s I find here will not be above $150 that I can guarantee because I would not buy them if they asked me for any amount above that. I'll make absolutely sure they are 3.63 beforehand, otherwise I would be stuck with the purchase.

BTW, I paid $330 for my set to mazdamart, which I thought was a really good price since the only other vendor I found that was selling them was selling them for $450 plus the speedo gears and that price I found too steep.

I won't be checking on that until the beginning of next week. The rest of this week is going to be dedicated to finally trying out what a turboed miata feels like.

So, I needed to buy some parts for my car today and went to check on the gearset as promised. Hustler, they do have them and they quoted me $120 for the full differential including the housing. Now, what do you want me to do?

Rafa

find another one for me, and then figure shipping :D

I private messaged you.

All I want is the ring and pinion, spacer...and I think that's all I need. I have some parts in the garage if you'd like to barter.

I pmed Hustler. He can forward the info I got to you. I'm not going to charge anything for checking or acting as a go between to anyone. I figure this will be my payback for all the shit I've needed assistance with.

I already started checking with potential shippers to find out what would be the cheapest option. I already know that if I were to use the local Post Office (they have a deal with the USPS) they would charge me about $75 to ship 70 lbs. I'm also going to check with local mechanics to see how much they would charge me to disassemble the ones I may find; this way shipping costs would be much cheaper.

Rafa

So this is what I'm going to do: next week (please don't forget that next week is Christmas and my mom's birthday is on the 24th) I'll go back and buy a set out of my own pocket. I'll take that set to my friend's shop and have one of his mechanics open it. We'll confirm what I got and then I'll post my findings; if these are indeed 3.63 gears for a manual transmission from a Mazda 626, Hustler has dibs on the first set (I must clarify, the one I'm going to open will not be the first set I ship because that one belongs to my "guru") and m2cupcar has the second dibs.

If this works out to be what we're looking for and there's anyone else interested please let me know so I can check how many this local guy can come up with. And also so I can organize the shipping part which to me will be the hard part since I need to find the cheapest alternative.

Fair?


Rafa

cool. I'm in on this.

works for me :bigtu:
although I think I should get the first set since hustler isn't making over 100whp :gay:

Yeah but hustler cracks me up!:gay:

One other thing I was forgetting; I plan on taking pics of the diff once we take it apart and posting them.

I suggest you guys provide me with any questions I may have to ask the guy selling these. Don't forget I know shit about this. I'm the same person who thought he needed "shorter gears". That should tell you how much I know. I'm going to start by re-reading some of your previous suggestions but the thing is that these diffs are not in any car.

ms2cupcar; this was your post I was referring to. Here go the dumb questions:

1) If I buy the diff housing (which is what they have lying around already parted) how do I know if those belonged to a manual transmission car?

2) Once I open the housing how do I identify the gears' size? (I mean whether they are 4.1, 4.3, 3.9 or 3.6?). I'm sure the mechanic who'll be opening them can tell but I want to be able to confirm whatever he says.

3) One thing that I figure they should not have are the senders. I'm saying it because I just got mines from mazmart and I assume those were not available in the 80s.

Just FYI the Aussie 6 speeds have that diff ratio as standard. Who knows why, made my MSM feel as quick as a dead dog.

the 3.63 is too big for the msm.

plain and simple, count the teeth:bigtu:

Ok Oscar and Olderguy; got it and thanks for the link.

I know I am jumping in a little late, but I would really really like a set of 3.636 gears too. If you have any information on an available set please let me know.

No problem. I just don't want the local guy to increase his prices but I figure he'll be glad to sell as many as he has and I'll be glad to buy as many as he has from him:)

Ok guys; since my car is finally running I figured it was time to keep my promise. I'm going to buy the first diff next Monday morning. If I can convince ($$$) any of the shop's mechanics to open it that same day we'll be able to know for sure whether these are 3.63 gears or not. Please take into account that Monday is going to be the 31st. I'll check on past threads and try to see who's on this list. I'll ask the store owner Monday how many sets he can come up with after I pay him for this first one so he can't then try to screw me by increasing the price. I'll try to make him lower his. We'll see. At that time we'll get organized and I'll post the list in the "first come, first served" order.

Wish me luck and cross your fingers. I already spoke with the co-owner of a local shipping company who consolidates cargo from Miami to here and he said he could also quote me the other way around. This way shipping to Miami would be really cheap. I still have to figure how to organize shipping from there to the different zip codes without paying through the nose.

Rafa

thanks Rafa! :x:

Thanks for all your efforts! I really appreciate it. BTW I live in zip 55434, MPLS, MN.

also the only years that had 3.636 gears were the 79-82 manual 626's

didn't some Australian MSM's come with a 3.6? or european. thought i've read that somewhere

Yes- and they're dealer available, but you're looking at $400+ to get them to the states. Mazcomp had them relisted but no date for availability.

Ok guys, I wanted to surprise you all and went to the store this afternoon to see if I could buy the first one today. I spoke with the owner, who btw has no clue and told me that the Miata diffs and those of the 626 were not compatible since the Miata was fwd, (see how much he knows). Since he did not know either what were 3.63 gearsets :mad: I just told him I would be back Monday morning with the 3.63 gearset I already got from mazmart. I figure once he sees it he may finally know wtf I'm trying to get. He insisted he could only sell me the pumpkins. I said that was fine and that I would take care of disassembling them.

In the meantime, I already located a bigger used Mazda parts store:cool:. I'll be visiting them also Monday morning.

FWIW, I reminded this asshole about the price and he said it was ok. I asked how many he had and he said that he knew he had 3 diffs for sure. I get the sense those parts are not as easily sold locally as I originally thought so I take it anyone I find is not going to be more expensive than the price I was originally quoted.

Rafa

Sounds good. Thanks again.

Based on this info the one they had and I just bought from them will not work. If I'm not mistaken this is a 3.9 gearset.

Here are some pics:



Sorry guys.

Rafa

we need a group buy on these too

Guys, read my last post. THIS IS A 3.9 gearset.

I'm looking for 3.63 gearsets not the 3.9.

I don't think the 3.9s are worth the effort.

has anyone checked with mazdaspeed motorsports

Loki I bought mine from mazmart. I was just trying to see if I could find some of the ones in past 626s locally but it looks like we're not going to have any luck. I'll keep searching.

One quick question for everyone; should I return this gearset? If so, I have to do it today.

Thanks,

Rafa

I doubt keeping it would be worth your time since they're available here, and not that big of difference from a 4.10.

mazda motorsports just relisted them but doesn't have a date for arrival- that is pending a mazda manufacturing date... iow they may never show up

Did you count the teeth on both the ring and pinion? Also do you know what year that came out of? The only years applicable are from 79-82.

Thanks for your effort.

The mechanic at my shop counted it first. My building's super after him and finally I myself just in case because I realized that there are some 3.3 gearsets to be had if I find an old B2000 mazda small truck.

The large one has 43 and the small one 11. Sorry guys. I'll keep looking but that will not be worth waiting for. I figure if I can find the 3.3 gearset I can send it to mazmart and see if they can reproduce it. That's the one I'm really interested in.