The reason (I think) that everyone keeps saying TSE is because it's cast. All of the built tubulars we know of, even the best ones like absurd and artech, have cases of cracking documented with heavy and long periods of track use. The cast unit, in theory, should fix this issue. it is annoying to keep hearing "proven" when the product hasn't been proven to last, for multiple years, by multiple un-biased heavy track users, yet. But that's a different topic
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I want to be optimistic and agree with you on that, I'm a turbo guy at heart and Artech is good solid stuff, but I believe the TSE kit stands alone as the most comprehensively track-ready kit that exists. This is considering all of the associated bits as well, not just the big core items like manifold/DP.
But all that aside, you really won't be able to match with a turbo the reliability of a naturally aspirated K motor no matter which way we slice it. |
Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1378458)
I want to be optimistic and agree with you on that, I'm a turbo guy at heart and Artech is good solid stuff, but I believe the TSE kit stands alone as the most comprehensively track-ready kit that exists. This is considering all of the associated bits as well, not just the big core items like manifold/DP.
But all that aside, you really won't be able to match with a turbo the reliability of a naturally aspirated K motor no matter which way we slice it. and I hope you're right, and believe you're right about your statement on the TSE kit. BUT:
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1378455)
it is annoying to keep hearing "proven" when the product hasn't been proven to last, for multiple years, by multiple un-biased heavy track users, yet. But that's a different topic
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I agree with that. I have little doubt in the TSE kit being the solution, proof is a matter of time. Give it a year and SuperMiata S1 will have a full season of abuse on the kits.
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I thought absurdflow was holding up fine? Hadn't heard of any cracking.
cast manifolds can still crack. I think the TSE kit is epic. I love me some good engineering. But I until I see multiple cars running them hard for a long time I will reserve my personal judgement. To be clear I have recommended the kit to multiple people, and I believe it is the best kit you can currently buy. |
Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1378485)
I thought absurdflow was holding up fine? Hadn't heard of any cracking.
cast manifolds can still crack. I think the TSE kit is epic. But it is far from track proven. |
I'd love to be proven wrong. Seriously. I just hadn't seen it published yet.
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^yup.
So far it's been advertised as the most durable turbo kit available, but there hasn't been any published proof of durability testing. Also, it's one thing to show what it's been through during testing, and another to see what customers experience with the kit. RE: absurdflow, remember my bellows, and Tim's statement that they all fail? no bueno. Though it did last all year this year. |
Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1378487)
I'd love to be proven wrong. Seriously. I just hadn't seen it published yet.
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That's pretty fantastic! No question it still would be the kit I'd buy despite the newness.
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Originally Posted by aidandj
(Post 1378487)
I'd love to be proven wrong. Seriously. I just hadn't seen it published yet.
Some idiot then reads and regurgitates it verbatim. And just like that, it's "truth". That's what I deal with on a daily basis with my brand and I swear it's like pissing in the ocean sometimes. As you are a respected regular around this forum, I would expect more discretion than that. IOW, don't Trump this place with conjecture. Be better than that. /rant |
I see where you are coming from. Statement edited to explain my thoughts a little better :D
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It's really not a long wait now. It's out, people bought it, some have already done multiple track days. So far so good, and very promising, that's for sure.
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Even as someone that has never owned a turbo BP, I really appreciate Andrew's approach to his setup. That manifold is art. At the end of the day though, anyone developing new product is in the same boat. Thankfully there are early adopters that are willing to do their research and take a calculated risk. That's why the TSE kit is doing well, as is the K swap.
We already started building a World Racing League enduro K24 NA for 2017 to keep proving reliability in all situations. S1 is certainly that additional proving ground for the TSE parts. And yeah I need to start a build thread. |
Cat awarded for building a WRL car. YOUBETTERMAKEABUILDTHREADTHO
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I'd just like to point out than an n=1 is more of a proof of concept than anything I'd refer to as veritable reproducible truth. You just need more data points for that. Additionally when you take a product and mass produce it, small natural variations in how things come together can have pretty substantial results.
I'm not doubting TSE in the least, but things are conclusive when they can be successfully emulated and reproduced in different setups. /pedant |
With respect to both companies and their work, right now I don't think you can call either a "more reliable" setup. This is especially given that both products haven't been around for "years" as many people have stated. On paper, yes, the K Series should product less stress in most cases. My barometer is more of that guy who maybe cuts corners here and there on the up-keep and maintenance and still has a reliable car. Right now that just doesn't really exist for either product because typically early adopters are going give more attention to the details. Also, give everything a few years for the newness to wear off and the companies producing the products to start getting more lax. Not saying either one has evidence of it, but I've been around manufacturing and new product launches in other fields to see it happen eventually. Usually its not the fault of the designing company, but someone one or two tiers below trying to save a dollar or two.
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My thread has been sent through the blades of a turbine. Unintentionally, and in part by myself.
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Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit
(Post 1378649)
My thread has been sent through the blades of a turbine. Unintentionally, and in part by myself.
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Why not a turbo K? they can be built bulletproof for fairly cheap right?
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Lol
Fairly cheap, good one. Building a turbo K swap to be reliable is definitely possible, but the path is even less proven than turboing a BP, and it'll cost you about as much as an LS swap (though would likely outperform an LS swap). Either way, the cost goes way way up. |
Whenever people use "bulletproof" and "fairly cheap" in the same sentence, a kitten dies
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Maybe that was the wrong wording haha. I guess I mean that it goes a longer way than the options for the bp- cost to hp ratio. I mean the stroker kit for the bp from maruha cost like, what, 4 grand for only .3 liters ?
couldn't you boost a stock k series and get better gains than a boosted bp with less stress on the engine ? |
For whatever it's worth, this conversation isn't really relevant to this thread.
The stroker kit from Maruha has nothing to do with which one is cheaper to modify. A K swap will make more power than a BP with a turbo. but once you add boost, you're increasing service requirements for the vehicle for track use, full stop. |
Fair enough.
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Originally Posted by G_Wheezy
(Post 1378854)
Why not a turbo K? they can be built bulletproof for fairly cheap right?
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