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Old 04-15-2008, 12:47 AM   #21
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There are definitely plenty of them around, but the cool rednecks have diesels.
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Old 04-15-2008, 12:57 AM   #22
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There's a station about an hour from me with pumps that have 98, 103, 108, and 114. I have no idea why there's a demand in the middle of nowhere here.
We have that too in the boonies. Usually means there's a circle track or dragstrip near by.

Always thought it was cool that there was an ethanol pump off to the side at one gas station. Really weird location though.
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Old 04-15-2008, 08:38 AM   #23
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When I was pricing Toluene through a body shop buddy, Torco became a much more cost effective solution. The price and availability of bulk toluene has gone up considerably in the last few years. I think meth labs have a use for it.

I've actually got a 5 gallon drum of Torco that I won't be using if any DC area folks want to buy it to try it.

Frank
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:24 AM   #24
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Got a 5 gallon drum this morning, as well as a gallon of mineral spirits, from the Sherwin Williams. Total was about $70. The toluene was $13/gal I think.

Going to mix 2 gallons of toluene with a splash of mineral spirits and an ounce or two of ATF, fill the tank, and consume it over this week. Then Saturday AM I'll run 93 with 20% toluene.

Expensive, but less costly and bothersome than dealing with the potential of failed ringlands.
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Old 04-15-2008, 09:46 AM   #25
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and what equivalent oct. number will that give you?
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:17 AM   #26
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geez, sounds like a lot of effort. I'm just going to do an oil change, fresh plugs, and cross the fingers. But then again, I'll only be pulling 9psi with a conservative timing map.
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:25 AM   #27
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20% = appx 97 octane

Effort yes, but it's pulling 17psi over atmo at 4300 rpm (and I'll likely tweak ebc to maintain thru 7k), and I'll be hitting zones in the VE table that won't be as dialed in as they should be due to the HR frimware change. It's more of a safety thing. I did peel my spark map back 3° across the top 2 rows, then 2° on the row below that. I also added +10 to all the VE bins in the top row (or 2 top rows maybe, can't remember).

Plus getting some mineral spirits and ATF through the system could help remove any varnish or carbon.

I'm not going to have time to change the oil, though it is due very soon.

Ben K, when is your appointment?
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Old 04-15-2008, 10:54 AM   #28
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1:30 for me. I requested afternoon, as I am flying back from SF via the red-eye the night before.
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Old 04-15-2008, 11:12 AM   #29
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mmm, damn, I don't think I can wait that long.
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Old 04-15-2008, 11:23 AM   #30
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If I can actually sleep on the plane, I'll try to show up for your run; if there is time, we could strap mine up around then too I bet.
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Old 04-15-2008, 11:30 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
20% = appx 97 octane

Effort yes, but it's pulling 17psi over atmo at 4300 rpm (and I'll likely tweak ebc to maintain thru 7k), and I'll be hitting zones in the VE table that won't be as dialed in as they should be due to the HR frimware change. It's more of a safety thing. I did peel my spark map back 3° across the top 2 rows, then 2° on the row below that. I also added +10 to all the VE bins in the top row (or 2 top rows maybe, can't remember).

Plus getting some mineral spirits and ATF through the system could help remove any varnish or carbon.

I'm not going to have time to change the oil, though it is due very soon.

Ben K, when is your appointment?
Be advised that a 20% Toluene mix with 93 octane fuel will end up being higher than 97 octane.

BTW, the reason we mix an ounce of ATF with the Toluene locally is because legend has it that Toluene tends to dry up the valve seals. FWIW, I used it for over 4 years in one of my previous cars and never had any problems with the valves or anything else in the engine. On the other hand, I've never heard of anyone using Mineral Spirits.

Just another heads up; I've been using 118 octane Sunoco fuel to mix with my gasoline and fuels with high octane rating are leaded fuels.
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Old 04-15-2008, 11:46 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Be advised that a 20% Toluene mix with 93 octane fuel will end up being higher than 97 octane.
Please enlighten me.

Toluene + mineral spirits + atf is pretty common, and essentially the same ingredients as a couple "high end" fuel additives.
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Old 04-15-2008, 11:51 AM   #33
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My oldest son works at the local Exxon offices. I had my mix (87 octane fuel with 10% Toluene) verified by them and the result was 91.2 octane fuel.

I see you need this info before Sunday. When I get back home from work I'll provide additional info. I will even give you the name of the gadget they use to check the octane rating.
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Old 04-15-2008, 11:59 AM   #34
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cool, that would be neat-o.
I was just using weighted averages
(93 x 8) + (114 x 2) = appx 97
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Old 04-15-2008, 12:12 PM   #35
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more toluene :-) - they used to call it rocket fuel...
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Old 04-15-2008, 12:37 PM   #36
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FYI these guys sell Torco

http://www.atlantaspeedshop.com/
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:13 PM   #37
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Here you go Ben; Toluene has a 121 octane rating. If you were to fill a 12 gls tank with 9.6 gls of 93 gasoline (80%) and 2.4 gls of Toluene (20%), that mix would come out closer to: 98.6 octane.
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:16 PM   #38
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Rafa, the most consistent octane rating I see for toluene I've seen is 114

But octane is rated differently in different parts of the world. And also is typically just best guess.
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:34 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Rafa, the most consistent octane rating I see for toluene I've seen is 114

But octane is rated differently in different parts of the world. And also is typically just best guess.
Ben, you bring up a good point. I'll see if I can find a gallon of Toluene and send it to my son so they can analyze it and give me some actual numbers. I can't promise I will be able to do so before your Sunday commitment but I'll give it a try.
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:41 PM   #40
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Rafa, while the data would be interesting, don't knock yourself out. I'm already steady in my course.
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