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Old 07-20-2009, 03:20 AM   #1
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Default Track day preperation

I have a track day coming up next Monday, weather.com is prediction 95*, and I've always had overheating issues, so I need help.

First of all, my setup. BEGI reroute w/180* thermostat and freeze plug in front of head, mishi radiator, 100% water with a bottle of royal purple's version of water wetter, intercooler right in front of the rad, two ebay slim fans behind the rad, and no holes in the bumper.

First of all, the water isn't distilled, I know this can cause corrosion but after installing the reroute, it's all I had access to test for leaks, and it's stayed in there. Would distilled water also have better cooling properties? I know our well water is hard if that changes anything.

I still have the heater core for cold rainy Oregon track days where I need a defroster, and I currently use it to help control my temps at the track. Although in 95* weather I'd rather not have the heater on full blast. Would plumbing that into the upper radiator hose so it goes through the radiator help cooling at all? I don't give a flying **** about warm up time. Also is there an ideal place to route it. i.e., does it make a difference if its plugged in right behind the head or could I route it all the way to the front if necessary.

Regarding my fans, I need one for cooling while idling of course, but since it's 95% track car, would it be better to ditch one to keep it from blocking so much airflow through the radiator? And with this fan, would converting it to a pusher setup be better?

I seriously hope the reroute is doing more than I think it is, I don't like going to the track with an irreversible, untested modification. I'm also hating myself for not installing an oil cooler, yes I'd now be out about $200 and a couple hours of my time, but after seeing Sav's new setup it looks so simple. Just the thought of ordering plumbing stuff online gives me a headache, it's annoying figuring out what time of fitting you have, than what size, and then what converters you need if both side aren't the same. I really wish I had the $370 for FM's new oil cooler setup.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:35 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I have a track day coming up next Monday, weather.com is prediction 95*, and I've always had overheating issues, so I need help.

First of all, my setup. BEGI reroute w/180* thermostat and freeze plug in front of head, mishi radiator, 100% water with a bottle of royal purple's version of water wetter, intercooler right in front of the rad, two ebay slim fans behind the rad, and no holes in the bumper.
If you get a chance, make a blockoff plate that holds that freeze plug in place. I've heard of them popping out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
First of all, the water isn't distilled, I know this can cause corrosion but after installing the reroute, it's all I had access to test for leaks, and it's stayed in there. Would distilled water also have better cooling properties? I know our well water is hard if that changes anything.
Mineral buildup won't help anything. If it wouldn't kill you, change it out. Also, I've seen data that suggests that having SOME antifreeze helps the water do its job better (something about lubricity or transfer between the aluminum and the water?)

[QUOTE=curly;432280]I still have the heater core for cold rainy Oregon track days where I need a defroster, and I currently use it to help control my temps at the track. Although in 95* weather I'd rather not have the heater on full blast. Would plumbing that into the upper radiator hose so it goes through the radiator help cooling at all? I don't give a flying **** about warm up time. Also is there an ideal place to route it. i.e., does it make a difference if its plugged in right behind the head or could I route it all the way to the front if necessary.

Shouldn't make any difference, but it will help for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Regarding my fans, I need one for cooling while idling of course, but since it's 95% track car, would it be better to ditch one to keep it from blocking so much airflow through the radiator? And with this fan, would converting it to a pusher setup be better?
I'm a firm believe in shrouds and fans if you don't have direct airflow, but a magnehelic gauge is required to see what's best for your setup. With direct airflow, you want to be rid of the fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I seriously hope the reroute is doing more than I think it is, I don't like going to the track with an irreversible, untested modification. I'm also hating myself for not installing an oil cooler, yes I'd now be out about $200 and a couple hours of my time, but after seeing Sav's new setup it looks so simple. Just the thought of ordering plumbing stuff online gives me a headache, it's annoying figuring out what time of fitting you have, than what size, and then what converters you need if both side aren't the same. I really wish I had the $370 for FM's new oil cooler setup.
Only because I like you, OIL COOLER FOR DUMMYS:
-Rx7 oil cooler, eBay, looks like this:
Name:  DSCN1542.jpg
Views: 3
Size:  134.5 KB (ziptied to the bumper)
-Mocal adapter, 20mm thread, with or without a thermostat (Rx7 has one built in, but it's only 140 degrees which is too cool IMO.): Sandwich Plate - Mocal Sandwich Plate- 20mm Thread
-Two of these (BSPP to -10AN): - Mocal 1/2" x -10 ORB fitting
-Four AN hose ends, at least two of them need to be 90 degree (at the sandwich plate), the other two can be straights, 45 degree, whatever, depends on how you are doing your oil cooler mounting.
-Two of these: Aeroquip FBM2245 - Aeroquip AN to Metric Adapter Fittings – SummitRacing.com (to adapt the oil cooler to -10AN)

That's it. Mount the oil cooler, install the sandwich plate, assemble fittings, tighten, idle the car and add oil as the cooler fills.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:57 AM   #3
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Sav you rock my world.

As for the oil cooler list, I couldn't find the thermostatless mocal plate, would I have to go to ebay for one of those? The other headache is figuring out how much of this I can get from work, our plumbing stuff is scattered around 3 warehouses and can be a pain to find if you don't know exactly where to look. Saving some money would be great though. This is of course all the AN stuff, not the adapters. If I could find a cheap, big oil cooler with -10an fitting already on it, it'd save me $20, the ones I was looking at (TRU-Cool Oil Coolers) are fairly cheap but 1/2NPT.

As for the coolant/water, isn't the water wetter replacing the lubricating properties of the coolant while keeping the ideal cooling properties of running 100% water? If not I'll throw in some coolant when I also put in the distilled water. If so, what's the desired solution, 90/10, 80/20? I'll also rip out one of the fans but keep it easily reinstallable, just in case it does more harm than good. I'll also try to reroute the heater line sometime this week or weekend.

Thanks again for the quick answers, I'm guessing since you sold your turbo and are doing a bunch of other ducting work, you won't be making it out to ORP?
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:58 AM   #4
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Yeah, ORP isn't happening. The car won't be running until early August at the earliest.

I'd have to look it up, but I remember seeing a bellcurve with coolant% on X and efficiency on Y. The curve peaked at like 20-30% coolant.
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:46 AM   #5
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Please, don't use coolant if you are tracking your car.
One or two bottles of water wetter + distilled water is the right combination. Watter wetter keeps the pump lubricated.

Coolant in track cars is very dangerous. If you drop coolant, the track becomes VERY slick. Many race sanctioning bodies strictly prohibit the use of coolant because of how slick of a surface it creates.

Edit: Some coolants may actually be okay. It's just the ethylene glycol based coolant that is a no-no.
"15.17.10 Engine Coolant
Ethylene Glycol-based antifreeze and other additives that may cause a slippery
condition if spilled on track are prohibited. Other water additives such as Redline Water
Wetter may be used."

Last edited by crashnscar; 07-20-2009 at 05:06 AM.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:42 AM   #6
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hmm, I'll do a little googling when I get home, see what the intertron thinks is best.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crashnscar View Post
Please, don't use coolant if you are tracking your car.
One or two bottles of water wetter + distilled water is the right combination. Watter wetter keeps the pump lubricated.

Coolant in track cars is very dangerous. If you drop coolant, the track becomes VERY slick. Many race sanctioning bodies strictly prohibit the use of coolant because of how slick of a surface it creates.

Edit: Some coolants may actually be okay. It's just the ethylene glycol based coolant that is a no-no.
"15.17.10 Engine Coolant
Ethylene Glycol-based antifreeze and other additives that may cause a slippery
condition if spilled on track are prohibited. Other water additives such as Redline Water
Wetter may be used."

+1000000. Glycol is slicker than snot on a brass doorknob. Do not use coolant on the track.

At my last motorcycle race they started imposing a $150 fine at tech inspection to anyone caught running coolant in their bikes. More power to them I say. On motorcycles, a coolant spill could kill someone. Just use water and water wetter.
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Old 07-20-2009, 01:43 PM   #8
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I'll stick with water and water wetter sounds like. Thinking about it, I've slid sideways past a spun exiege because of coolant spill. I'll definitely switch to distilled when I have the chance.
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Old 07-20-2009, 03:48 PM   #9
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Hustler and many of the other track rats around here all say sealing your heat exchangers to prevent air from bypassing is absolutely required to solve cooling issues. Have you done that yet? I'm working on that now myself although my issues weren't nearly as bad as yours.
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:02 PM   #10
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No not yet. It's sad cause I pretty much have the same setup as you. What was it like at ORP in terms of water temp, and what have you done, if anything, to your heater core return?

I'll look into sealing it up but I dunno if I'll have the time before next weekend. As it is I wanna take my mixing manifold off and have it welded up and route the heater core return to the radiator inlet hose. Then again the cars in one piece and running well, so tearing it apart a week before a track day sounds about right.
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Old 07-20-2009, 11:01 PM   #11
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Alright, so since this morning, I've gotten the distilled water and another bottle of water wetter, a mechanical temperature gauge (cheapo, shoulda gotten an electrical), I've removed the mixing manifold so it can be welded up tomorrow at work, the passenger side fan, and rerouted the heater return towards the radiator inlet hose.

I'm using the pipe circled in red here:
Name:  re-routeedited.jpg
Views: 6
Size:  76.6 KB
to return the heater core water to the radiator. I'll drill and tap the back of it for the water temp sensor (is this a good location?) and weld a plate over the top, then drill and tap it for a 5/8" hose barb and voila, cold(er) water.

Am I missing anything? No coolant so I won't **** off anyone at the track should I get a leak, water wetter to lubricate the pump and keep it from boiling, a better temperature sensor with actual degrees, distilled water, only one fan...
Oh ducting! I haven't done it yet...There's really hardly any space between the stock plastic under tray and the bottom radiator tank, I think I have some weather stripping I can use anyways to block off what little there is, and I'll try to take some pictures of the sides, again, not much of a gap.
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