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Old 02-05-2008, 10:15 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddroptop View Post
Exactly, just because nobody (almost) in the Miata world does it, doesn't mean they do not work.
I am just repeating what some very prominent posters on this forum have said in the past.

I am curious to see what would happen though.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:44 PM   #22
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thought while i was in there doing a timing belt its not to much more work to replace the cams and gears.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:45 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueovalmiata View Post
thought while i was in there doing a timing belt its not to much more work to replace the cams and gears.
well if you're going to do that then change the springs and everything else needed to allow higher rpm's
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:51 PM   #24
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ok but what lift duration is reccomended for turbo?
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pipefather View Post
Maybe for an NA engine. Atleast in theory, boost can compensate for those 20 degrees of overlap you have on a stock 1.6. Since we have DOHC we should be taking advantage of the ability to vary intake and exhaust independently. I dont know why many people haven't done that yet since cost-wise pulleys dont cost that much. A good place to start would be retarding the exhaust cam IMO. Of course the goal would be to pick up hp in the lower rpm range.
Tell this to all the 4g63 guys running 280deg crower cams and 25+ psi.....
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:03 PM   #26
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you may also need solid lifters, are they a requirement or suggestion?
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Old 02-07-2008, 03:12 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddroptop View Post
Exactly, just because nobody (almost) in the Miata world does it, doesn't mean they do not work.
I want to see a hot set of cams work, too, since once someone produces a setup that actually makes power I'm going to copy them, but this statement pisses me off.

"MAN **** YOU GUYS JUST CAUSE NOBODY'S DONE IT DOESNT MEAN IT ISNT A GOOD IDEA"

750,000 Miata owners, lots of smart guys tweaking on them for the past 18 years. If there's a mod that is cheap and easy and nets a lot of power, it's ******* been done. There is not some holy grail camshaft that adds 25whp on a 160whp motor that "NOBODY'S FOUND YET CAUSE NOBODY HAS TRIED". **** you, of course people have tried, and they've found that unless you are going to a really big setup or revving the motor way harder than stock (1000rpm+), it's not worth it.

As far as I'm concerned, unless you are willing to spend a lot of money and a lot of time to get a small horsepower gain, "because nobody else has done it" is a perfectly valid reason to leave well enough alone.
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Old 02-07-2008, 08:45 AM   #28
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plenty of people have gone with webcam 505 sticks with adjustable gears. it was all the rave a few years back on turbo cars. it just seems that these newer turbo kits make the same amount of power as the last generation turbo kits + cams, so fewer people are looking for cams.

also, the webcams have gone from $350 to $550 recently.
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Old 02-07-2008, 02:14 PM   #29
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Certainly a set of back-to-back dyno runs would be pretty awesome. That OEM cams are ideal is a long shot, how close they are, who knows.

If I had to guess, I would say that there's a huge resistance for people giving up the "non-interferance" honor. People with fast cars admit that a broken belt is a broken motor, but miata people are scared. I've never heard a good reason not to get cams aside from that. Since I'm on my third belt in 70,000 miles (I change it "while I'm in there"), I personally think it would be fine to get some more lift - ever look at the flow numbers? That last bit of lift is huge for flow.
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Old 02-07-2008, 02:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I smell bullshit and am willing to prove it.

Dyno proof forthcoming...
If those are what i think they are then the folks at www.mazda-speed.com will tell you that are the same as 99-00 cams and aren't worth your time and money.. even though that have no real proof...haha.. Have those things spec'd before you put them in !!!

I'm really looking forward to your results either way.
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Old 02-07-2008, 03:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
Tell this to all the 4g63 guys running 280deg crower cams and 25+ psi.....
I never said anything about a high-rpm high-boost engine. I just said that with less overlap you could pick up some power in the low-end and mid-range. And make up for the lost top end with boost.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:12 PM   #32
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I am using the HKS stII 264's with stock cam gears at my turbo setup.

I 've lost a 200 rpm spool but I saw very big differences at high's.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:14 PM   #33
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what are the lift and duration numbers for those cams?
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:16 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MX5-4me View Post
If those are what i think they are then the folks at www.mazda-speed.com will tell you that are the same as 99-00 cams and aren't worth your time and money.. even though that have no real proof...haha.. Have those things spec'd before you put them in !!!

I'm really looking forward to your results either way.
No; the cams pictured are not what you think they are. They are webcam 505 and 505+2 for my 1.6

I'm going to ask Randy Stocker to measure the MSM intake cam and post it on his site.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
I'm going to ask Randy Stocker to measure the MSM intake cam and post it on his site.
http://jc-schools.net/Sounds/excellent.wav
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:41 PM   #36
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btw, I went and found your link to your thread... I have NO IDEA where your boy is getting his part numbers from... but they're wrong.

Upon visual comparison, the 99-00 cams are both stamped BP 4W and the MSM intake cam is clearly stamped 5A. I've looked at many sets over the past few weeks...

if you want, I can snap some photos so you can shove it up his ***

Last edited by Ben; 02-07-2008 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
btw, I went and found your link to your thread... I have NO IDEA where your boy is getting his part numbers from... but they're wrong.

Upon visual comparison, the 99-00 cams are both stamped BP 4W and the MSM intake cam is clearly stamped B5. I've looked at many sets over the past few weeks...

if you want, I can snap some photos so you can shove it up his ***
Please send said photo suppository..

I'll PM you my E-Mail ..
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:18 PM   #38
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Here's the best I can do in a pinch...

Hi, I'm a BP-4W out of a 1999 miata. Note my ugly *** exhaust manifold

Here is a close up of my camshafts. Note that the exhaust cam is the closer, and the intake cam is further away. Also note the intake cam is embossed with "BP" with "4W" over it.


Here it is as viewed from the intake side. Note 4W is embossed prominently (it's upside down)





And finally, here is a poor MSM cylinder head with "5A" embossed on the intake cam


But hey, they're the same camshaft right :fm:
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Old 02-07-2008, 07:16 PM   #39
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Anybody actually have cams in w/ before and after #s?
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Old 02-07-2008, 07:34 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pipefather View Post
what are the lift and duration numbers for those cams?
exhaust
Duration => 264
Lift => 9.3 mm

intake
Duration => 264
Lift => 9.5 mm
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