V8 Rebellion?
 

Is it just me, or are the initial stages of a V8 mass exodus underway?


And some others...

No worries though, it's all good.

These are dark times indeed, we are slowing going the way of the FD RX-7

I am going to pick up my LS1 motor/T56 tomorrow. This will be my daily. The turbo is still my track car.

I'll do an FD LS1 after Nov. Either that or an NSX. Can't decide.

These are not dark times. They are times of enlightenment:D
I think its great. The more people that do this the more companies will make parts for it, the more competition the cheaper the prices, the cheaper the prices the more people will do it and provide feedback/build threads/helpful tips/info. All good things for my future v8 miata project:)

If all one wants is to tear around the street or auto-x circuit, a reasonably priced turbo setup is viable.

Once we start talking about a significant percentage of what Hustler has spent on getting his turbo setup to survive track duty.... V8 swap is better bang for the buck.

Just my opinion of course.

HA that is funny. I am doing the opposite. LS1 track car, turbo daily driver. I suppose it all balances out :)

I would do the FD. That is a damn sexy car for the money and the bulletproof V8 just makes it that much better, not to mention the great handling. Lots of FD chassis parts available too.

I had not heard of NSX V8 conversions though. That could be nice.

V8 914 for the win, track or street!

Indeed.

Renegade Hybrids

meh fuck that i love my turbo. Now my nissan on the other hand would be a decent lt1 swap candidate after this winter if shit picks up either that or i could just fix up my TA some more. Decissions all hinge on $$ and time though.

Wow... Except for the 928, I would not have guessed the LSx or any V8 would fit (vertically limited) in a Porsche chassis since the stock motors are horizontally opposed (not the 928).

What does it take to make an SBC survive track duty? Just an accusump / drysump conversion?

In hindsight, after adding-up engine money, my turbo route is still cheaper than what a V8 swap would run because I'd have to drop my car off to someone like FM for the labor. When I started building my car, I was on a super-tight budget...if I started this build from scratch today, I may have an SBC in my lil' green miata.

I still think a 200whp 'Busa swap would be more fun on the track than an SBC, with "think" being the operative.

I look forward to playing with a v8 miata on the track...especially a local, nameless shit-talking motherfucker.

Oh, I meant a stock NSX vs a V8 FD. Just not sure how reliable these V8 conversions are.

Hmmm... now who would that be? :noes:

Got my Miata motor pulled yesterday from the other 99, the 5.0 is halfway pulled out tonight. Should finish pulling to tomorrow:giggle:

Debating on keeping the turbo car or just keeping the V8. It needs paint. If I keep only the V8, I'm copying Dopple's car. If I keep both, I may jst repaint black to keep the cost down. We will see what "one who must be obeyed" has to say. We have thee miatas now, plus her Protege, plus I have two 4x4 trucks, bass boat, dune buggy. My insurance man likes me. I really have too much stuffs.

v8 conversion can be done under $6k. ive got source for axles/driveshafts. group buy anyone? it will work for turbo guys too in case someone wants to upgrade to 8.8 rear end.

anyways, i was looking at how much stuff for domestic vehicles costs and holy shit - $250 for BRAND NEW limited slip diff? cmon...

I'd be interested in the axles and the diff setup.

My 8.8 diff axles with all new CV joints are on the way. Should be here next week. Plug and play in the 8.8 diff. Have to either broach the Miata hubs or just go to the T-bird spindles and fab new control arms. Both will work. $245 shipped for both, brand new axles and 4 CV's, assembled.:yippee:

in a group buy section. sent my source an email about it. waiting on response (hopefully with discounts.)

i would lean more towards a v8 being more reliable that a rotary! i know there a hell of alot easier to work on! alot less confusing too!

i sill love rotary though.... :D

20 minute cam change ftw!

ftmfw!

kenzo42! i dont know if you know about this site or not but they have been building swap kit for the rx7's since they first rolled off the showroom floor if im not mistaken, not to expensive either!

here ya go! http://www.grannysspeedshop.com/

I had planned on building an L33 based car this Spring. Sean, our new mechanic said today "I have an LS1 and spare T5 you can have". I guess that seals it. So I have a 99 Sport Package and a 95 R Package as willing donors. Thinking the little R package would be perfect since its OBD I..

So yeah, it's the cheapest speed that will still go around corners well. Within a few hours of us announcing race prep and full builds, I had four guys inquiring about getting an LSx plan started for them. This is gonna be fun.

not you. This guy talked shit to me a few years ago at a gas station.

T5, I don't think their up to the task Emilio. Did you mean T56?

Exactly, for god sake people, keep it up! Maybe that way in a few years I can afford a V8 swap when my budget picks up a little.

So who is the Moses of this Exodus?

Miata turbos going the way of the FD V8 is excellent! An FD with an LS1 would be one of my ideal cars for a reasonable price.

FD all the way, i think NSX are way too overpriced for what they are.

it doesnt matter whether car is obd1 or obd2 since electronics on GM motors are stupid easy to swap and they actually all come as one single unit which fits under the hood. thats right - you dont need to run wires through your entire car! if youd like to, i could stop by once my car is done and show you how everything is hooked up. so far i dont see any complicated steps in a swap process.
also, ive read somewhere that you wanted to use V8R kit. any reason for that besides it being pretty tubular setup instead of BF's square tubing and sheet metal? im pretty sure you can get BF stuff cheaper then V8R (dealer pricing) but i guess you would know better :)

If you guys are the rebels than I want to be Vader...but I have a damn green car. WTF does that get me? I do not want to be a dumbass storm trooper. I guess the NA miata motor rebels can be Ewoks. lol

miataturbo/V8.net

To put things in perspective on doing a V8 swap and running autoX....

1600lb starting weight
+200 lb per ltr for the motor..

5.7 x200 = 1140 + 1600 = 2740

-200 lb for running a 275 or narrower tire = 2540lb minimum weight.

Meaning NA guys would have to add ballast, but my fully-optioned 02 would probably just barely meet the min. weight just by doing the swap.



Hmmmmmmmmm

If I ever had another DD, I'd consider pulling my drivetrain and selling it to fund a V8.

OK... I am going to say it... I know several of you are thinking it... here goes...
Does mt.n need an engine swap section?
*** runs for cover ***

Are you the guy that had a few seconds on pinks? Someone had a car just like that one.

That and a P&R section...

You are using SSM points calculations for a car that would have to be in XP (unless you are swapping in a 5.7L Mazda engine).

You can add me to the list, as I am in the very beginning stages of planning an LS(x) miata. It won't happen for a while though.

Who's gonna be first with "I need turbos for my LS1"... ?

Keep It Simple, dumbasS
 

I spent a lot of time a few years ago OCDing about LS in E36 and FD chassis, and finally decided that the right answer is just to go buy a Corvette. It's basically the same car as a Miata, but big enough to actually put down 500+ hp. 285 front/315 rear go on with cheap replica wheels and clear 14-in. dia. brakes. It's corner-weightable and ride height adjustable from the factory. The work is already done, with a level of integrity good enough to have had a full factory warranty, even if it's expired.

Fundamentally good, but not perfect chassis. Engine that's only good enough but easy to get more power from.

I even finally realized that 255/40-17 and 275/40-27 on first-gen ZR1 replica wheels will work great and give you lots of affordable, good tire choices.

You do need to replace the seats and steering wheel with something that doesn't make you want to vomit when you look at them, and parts of the interior are liable to free themselves, but that last bit is true of BMWs, too.

If I get as far as I want to take my Miata, and it's still not good enough, this is what I'm doing.

Hince turbo miata and 99 Z28.

I drag race, so I wanted the straight axles. And tougher body.

And a mullet!

Nothing wronge with keeping a family tradition! :giggle:

thats the easy way out though! it takes all the fun out of having a over-sized go kart with a huge friggin engine, and that takes away from all the fun of being somewhere and having those idiots beside staring at you and your car trying to figure out why your miata sounds a lil more beefy than most! :bigtu:

The v8 movement depends on goals and what makes you happy. If you are happy with 200-250hp turbo is the only way to go. When you start hitting 350-400hp as a goal it's much less clear. By the time you add up a built turbo motor, clutch, tranny, rear end and all the other supporting mods you just aren't that far from having done the V8. The small 4 banger turbo pushing 400hp is likely all top end vs the nice easy broad powerband of the 8. If the only option was the Monster 5 liter Ford, there wouldn't be this movement. The LSx is reliable, light and fits. If it wasn't such a good motor it wouldn't be the new hot thing to do.

A 5.0 L is a beast too. I realize that everyone wants the weight benefit. And the Lsx comes already 290+ hp. Which bang for buck is best.

But If you give me a basic 5.0Hp. I can get some cheap used heads.
That car will be a torque monster and a beast.

I love 5.0's. You fart in them and they run. They have the bore of a 350 with a tiny stroke. they rap hard and fast.
And you can find a used supercharger for $1000 every week.

You can push 400-500 hp easy.

If someone knows what they are doing, on a cheap budget, and can't afford the 250 bucks for used Gt40 heads. The stock heads and intake, can be hand worked to make good power up to 5800rpms as well.

But if I didn't just have everything laying around, I would go get the 5.3L Lsx out of a truck. 290Hp for $450.

Light and cheaper for 320hp if left stock. But if your going for 450+ hp. You will probaly spend the same either way, and the ls1 would probably be stronger, if the motors are not built..

500hp the 5.0L splits

Some have made more on the Ls1. I don't know how long it would last though.

SY510...you have to look at two things:

1. Price point
2. Project Fun

It doesn't sound like much, but the $5-10K difference between a finished LSx Miata and a decent 'Vette is a bargain breaker for most people, especially when you're comparing a stock Chevy to a supped up Miata (roll bar, suspension, chassis stiffening ect). A lot of us think the Miata is a uniquely well balanced car, and a more engaging drive. I bought my safety equipment off a gal with a 750whp C5, and she wished she had started in the Miata to learn to REALLY drive. She hinted that the Corvette was too easy to go fast in.

Also, many of us have to keep our hands busy. The V8 Miata is a fun, exciting project with plenty of support. The resulting product is also is a known quantity that anyone will tell you ROCKS. I think the IDEA of building one is what sells...not the actual ownership. ZX-Tex however can probably attest to an LSx Miata still being more appealling even from just a purchasing standpoint.

idk if this guy is on here or not, but he is on MX5atl...his screen name is tboneheller. he has a NA with the 5.0 swap with a kenny bell supercharger set up. that shit is sick nasty man! the only problem is he has a lil trouble getting traction!

The Monster stuff has available for years. It's not bad. The v8 explosion is due to the LSx though. Light, low center of gravity still, no carbs. The Ford motor conversion isn't bad, the LS kits are just a whole lot better.

My few seconds of fame.

As for many of the current people doing the LS swap, I hope to see one in person at some point. The LS with a turbo should be quite an exciting car. I've had the pleasure of seeing/racing a car with the Ford swap and the only thing going for it was the sound because it sure wasn't fast.

Oh, I agree with you totally.

I was just adding that for a few red necks, that may be looking at the "u-pull its" and going to weld the whole shabang together. And try to do it for $1500-$2500.

I think it can be done. I think the most expensive part will be the axles and drive shaft.

Wrecked mustang. U-pull it motor $60.00, t-5 ($250 DFWstangs.net), U-pull it rear end an axles out of a Mark VIII $60.00, new clutch $200.00. Custom steel drive shaft and axles for $160.00 -190.00 a piece.

$320.00 drive train.
$600 axles
$20 for motor mounts and trans mount
-----------
Lets say $1000

Scrap steel from yard toward Desoto.
$100 for crossmember, trans and rearend support
------

Time time time.....pissed :vash: decide not to do it
$1400 Redneck 4wd shop from the boone'ys puts it in for you.

$2500: Done...

I like it.

Or 5.3 Lsx and options

$450-550,
6-speed $650
$35 tranny brace
$70 motor mounts.

U-pull it Mark VII rear end $60
$100 strap metal.
Axles drive shafts $600

$2000

$1400 cheap or high $2000 to put it in.

$3400-$4000 done.

Money is tight in Arkansas. I may be wronge, But I bet they would drop it in.
I'm calling a few shops Monday.

It was nice to just buy the car and drive it, especially knowing that it was a good deal, and was a LS1 conversion. No bad feelings toward the 5.0, but the LSx motors just have more easy power potential with simple modfications, that is no FI. The stock ECU spark/map/etc can also be modified as-is, even flashed with a new OS that will handle a 2-3 bar sensor for FI use. And, as mentioned, the weight penalty is not that bad with the aluminum blocks. My LS1 NA weighed in about 2500 lbs with a full tank of gas according to the digital scale at the local drag strip. That is with full street trim and a Hard Dog roll bar.

So I agree the LSx engines are the reason the swap trend is really taking off.

Now, from a racing perspective...

I want a road racing car that is going to be very fast, very reliable, and relatively cheap to operate, just like the bikes I have been racing up until this point. Going with a LSx conversion in a lightweight Miata chassis seems like a good fit. I think the FD chassis would be an excellent choice too, but costs a bit more to get into, and is a little heavier, about 300-400 lbs IIRC. Once the car is converted, drivetrain parts are much cheaper: new ring and pinion sets in a huge variety of ratios for less than $200, new Torsen T2 carriers for ~$500, cams for the engine, heads, valves, pistons, all cheaper.

A turn-key Corvette is also appealing, and not even that much more expensive to buy when considering the total build cost of the LSx Miata. However it is a much bigger car, and I prefer the small, fits-like-a-glove feel of the Miata. Plus, track tires for the Vettes are MUCH more expensive than say the 225/50/15 NT01 I am using, so that has to be considered as well. Another thing too is that if one crashes, or is crashed into, it is going to be a lot cheaper to repair a Miata than a Vette.

So in short, for racing, it is a great marriage. The relatively cheap, simple, bulletproof power of the LSx, and the light, nimble, well suspended chassis of the Miata; it is the modern day version of the Cobra. I'll bet Carrol Shelby would approve.

From a street perspective...
I agree that the turbo motor is still an excellent choice if one does not get too crazy (like I have) and keeps it under 300 RWHP, or under 200-225 RWHP with a stock motor. It can be built/upgraded in stages, and the turbo sound and power delivery sounds better and is more fun than the V8 IMO. Plus it does not require as much build skill as the V8 conversion. Megasquirts and Adaptronics are cheap. In fact, they are about the same price as what it takes to get the electronics to tune the LSx ECU.

And, if one does the turbo piping correctly (v-bands, unobtanium bolts) then it can be a reliable track setup as well. No reason why not. It just takes much more careful tuning and setup than the brute V8 displacement route because the specific power output is so much higher and thus more prone to knock and engine damage. I learned this the hard way.

Right now I am not saying that either one is better than the other. It is too soon for me to decide as I have not had the LS1 on the track yet. That will be the real test for me. Ask me again in about a year which Miata (LS1 or turbo) I would want to keep if I had to give up the other one. Hopefully I will not have to though. Right now I love them both equally, like a good father should :)

I could go on and on about this, but I'll leave it here for now.

I don't understand why alot of people have a problem with using the 5.0's. 300hp is easily obtained and it will still be dead reliable.

What really sucks for me right now is my buddy has a 300hp 5.0 from his old car sitting at his shop. He told me 1000bucks and it's mine with the 5spd. That and the Panache/MonsterMiata kit for 4000K is a really, really tempting combo. Gobs of power and the realiability factor. Hmmmm.

Who wants a 1.7 motor with a custom intake manifold and external wastegate exhaust manifold??????

If I got a Vette, I'd have to grow a stache, show chest chair, and wear police-man sun glasses. That's something I can't do.

c5s are getting cheap. my buddy bought c5z, it's nice and fast and more comfortable than the miata, i'd get one if the timing was right. i've never tracked either so i can't comment in that respect

I forgot about brakes, exhaust, and I'm sure alot. But my main point was, it might could be done cheaper (or reasonable) if delagated right.

And cheaper too. But it is also heavier since it is a cast iron block, right?

No slam against a 5.0 from me. I had a '86 Mustang GT and the stock engine was great even with high mileage.

Can we please not evoke Bocephus?

http://www.superiorpics.com/wenn_alb...001_021707.jpg

and dont forget, get old really really fast, and get really pissed and the little quick ass miatas that haul ass past ya!

NICE!

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/911/C...Wise/Pic01.jpg