VVT searching makes my eyes hurt.
 

I been at the search for hours. Just looking for the best way to get my DD back on the road. I lost compression in cyc 1 on my 2000 and just bought a 2001 motor complete. 2000 is mostly stock DD, except header, re-route, and cold air intake.

Option 1)So should I pull the 2000 head and swap it onto the good 2001 short block to eliminate the VVT.

Option 2)Put the complete 2001 motor in the 2000 car not using the VVT for now and maybe down the road hook it up. I read is can be run with out the VVT wired up, right? Just have or wire up the cam sensor. Anything else different that I need to address?

I'm leaning to option 2

I also found in a search this attached page. Is it true that I could activate the VVT with just 12V switch. I know its not the optimal way of doing things but a flip of a switch it goes from more tq down low to a more rev happy motor. Day spirited driving vs driving in traffic.

Thanks!

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/v...57c1c357eee5d5

I would lean toward option 2 and this controller. But why wait? I would assume the easiest time to make this happen was while you were installing the new engine.

Option two. The car will feel doggy without the VVT hooked up, but you can run it like that until you get the controller.

I never read much about this VVT before because I did not have it, but when I got the 2001 motor..... I originally thought it had to be controlled by MS or another standalone, but seems this controller can work on its own, nice.

What else do I need for the swap. I see the cam sensor is no longer on front of the valve cover, where is it? It also has a waste spark system on it I guess I just remove it and go back to the 2000 coil pack.

My NA with a VVT engine but no VVT control doesn't feel doggy.

Hell it's miles quicker than my mates otherwise completely stock NA.

You loose midrange sure and it's not optimal, but to imply the car will be a dog afterwards is untrue.

The Cam Sensor is on the rear part of the valve cover, just open up the harness and pull the cables back so they reach the new location.

There are no easy way to bolt the 99/00 coil packs to the back of the VVT valve cover. Elongate the connectors and use 2001 COPs is one way (moving the injector/coil/water temp harness over from the 2000 engine, the 2001 one is different).

pretty much any miata N/A is a dog :giggle:

True, I should've added 'relative' in there ;)

So elongate what?

I like to keep the cops if possible.

One more, keep the reroute I had on the 2000 or don't bother now that its a 2001 motor.

After reading around on other car forums, i learned that vvt tunig is nOthing new under the sun. Its a total waste to run fixed cam gears when u can have variable.

Your switch idea will really not be that great. Better than no vvt head ever though.

There's recent threads on this and the COPS deal... you have to remove a lot of material from the 01 VC and one or two of the COPS to make the toyota coils work, hours of work... little benefit (if any other than not redoing your harness)

reroutes are a no-go on VVT heads with VVT head gaskets. There is debate about the merit of VVT heads w/ NA 1.8 head gaskets and a reroute.

Anyone got the wiring diagram to connect the 2001 COPs to the 2000 harness.

everything 99+ is return-less

Just read that. My bad.

1. Move the injector+coil+water temp harnes from the 2000 head to the 2001 one (you want to use the injector harness that is matched to your main engine harness).
2. make the cables to the coilpack connectors longer so they will reach the COPs (keep track of which one is 1-4 vs 2-3)
Done.

The reason to exchanging the injector harness is that they a different regarding the coil connections (the 01 harness have the coils connected to the main harness and not through the injector harness which is then used for grounds).

In the US at least.
98-00 in JP and EU have return systems. Just to confuse us.

IcantDo55: what did you end up doing?

I find it interesting to learn that the VVT cam sensor works with the stock 2000 ECU, and possibly VVTuner? That might be kinda fun.

I'm in a similar position as I just picked up a VVT head and I'm trying to decide what I want to do with it. Sorry for the thread resurrection but I figured 49 days wasn't so bad ;)

I have not read any issues with cam sensor other than having to extend the wires.

I ordered a clutch and as soon as that comes in I'll be doing the swap, prob next week.
I'll keep the thread updated.

Only thing I'm think I'm still hazy on is the coil wiring, but ill figure it out.

Mazda used the same part for the cam sensor on all NB Miatas, 99-05.

It puts the head on the block.

Awesome! Coils should be easy-peasy, both the NB1 & NB2 use wasted spark, do they not? TIA for updates!Oh, most definitely. More torquees with the rotrex will be:party:This is good news, I guess they just moved it from the front to the back? Too easy! I was stressing this after reading about it on m.net (probably my first mistake)

My situation is slightly different as I need to maintain my stock ecu for emissions compliance. Smog techs out here aren't going to know what all that stock looking VVT crap is on the engine. The VVTuner can easily be mounted up under the dash and the wiring should be the same with the stock ECU or with my DIYPNP, unless I've totally missed something. The rotrex, injectors, MS and COPs can be easily swapped for stock parts for my biennial emissions testing, but the head is a little more of a pain in the ass.

Ok so I'm switching my injector harness from my 2000 motor to my 2001 motor to install in my 2000 car.....get that?

I'm going to run the 2000 coil pack for the time being (just bought it for $250 from mazda). So whats this black thing on the back of the 2001 head?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1332699077

I will eventually be hooking up the4 VVT with the standalone kit for $200 so I want to know if this is needed???


Another question....are the injectors the same? They are different colors?
Thanks

Capacitor for RFI supression. Its not 100% needed, ECU won't even know.

Its gone.
Thanks!

So how about the injectors? They the same?

Or others searching this later..... the fitted plastic fuel line under the intake manifold is different too but the 2000 one will swap on as long as you loose the mounting thingie near the oil filter and make your own.

Injectors are different...

http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/fuel-injectors
99-00 (red) 260cc - #195500-3310
01-05 (purple) 265cc - #195500-4060

...But I honestly wouldn't worry about it at this point :party:

Are you going to try to fire it up with the stock 99/00 ECU? I'm seriously curious if this will work on a US spec car.

That was the plan...use stock ECU. Think that is a big enough difference in injector to matter?

According to Brain, its not 260cc vs 265cc...



Year Make/Model Engine Size/Color Part #
87-88 Toyota MR2 4AGE NA 213cc – Beige Top #23250-16080
89-91 B2220 Truck 224cc - Yellow Top? #23250-74040?
99-00 Mazda Miata 240cc - Thin Red Body #195500-4430
Toyota 4AGE 250cc – Green Top
Toyota 4AGE 250cc – Violet Top
94-97 Mazda Miata 265cc - Tan Top #195500-2180
01-06 Mazda Miata 265cc - Thin Lt. Prple #195500-4060
Toyota 3SGE 295cc – Green Top
89-92 Toyota Supra 7MGE NA 305cc – LT Green Top #23250-70080
93-95 Toyota Supra 3.0L 312cc - Maroon Top #23250-46030
Toyota 3SGE 315cc – Pink Top
90-92 MX6/626/Probe Turbo 326cc - Gray Top #195500-2150
89-91 B2600 Truck 326cc - Gray Top #195500-2150
Mazda 323 GTX TURBO 360cc - Black Top #195500-2130
Celica/MR2 3SGE NA 370cc - Green Top #23250-74160
Mazda RX8 420cc - Yellow Body #195500-4450
89-92 Mazda RX-7 NA 440cc - Blue Top #195500-5740
89-91 RX-7 NA 460cc - Red Top #195500-2010
89-91 RX-7 TURBO 550cc - purple top #195500-2020


Looks like I'll be pulling them out and swapping them tmw...yea

Honestly, I think the stock ECU can handle the variance. Don't people run Supra 305's with the stock ECU?

And just for the sake of argument, (lol) IIRC when WitchHunter cleaned and flowed my NB1 reds, they did 258cc across the board @ 3bar. I'll see if i can find the flowchart tonight.

Edit: Well, I just found this on the WitchHunter site
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1332775346
So I guess that answers that.

If you are using the 99/00 ECU I'd use the 99/00 injectors, but that's just me. Are you going to use the 99/00 VICS intake or the 01/05 VTCS manifold? I've always wanted to run a VVT head with VICS + VVTuner. It seems like it would be the best of all worlds.

I had not considered using the 99-00 intake. Think there would be any benefit?

VTCS was for emissions compliance or some such, it blocks the runners. It looks like this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1332780997

VICS actually had a performance benefit by changing the plenum volume. It looks like this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1332780997

http://www.mazdaspeedy.com/2010/03/v...fold-pics.html
^^ Good info with diagrams and pics

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=428283

Keith: VTCS holds no performance benefit at all. It's a restriction in the intake if anything. Think of it as a choke and you've pretty much got it figured out.

JasonC SBB: I have a VICS mani on a VVT head. The VICS setpoint adjustment behaves the same way as the 99 head - adds torque in the midrange, ideal switchover ~5600 RPM.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=301535
^^ That's Jason's question about the same. Good commentary here from MT bros.

https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/standard-vics-vtcs-behaviour-52479/
^^ More commentary on the operation of the VTCS system.

You are already wired for VICS with the stock 99/00 ECU, its proven to add torque in the midrange, why not use it?

Moar torques = winning https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo-discussion-14/dyno-effect-vics-99-00-turbo-20742/

I've got a complete VVT head in the garage and I've been giving some though to installing it, but I need to maintain my stock ECU for CA emissions. I seriously doubt a smog tech would notice all the VVT crap on top of the head, and the VVTuner could easily live under the dash. I'm SO in for win and awesome on this.

EDIT:

Just found this related post by Jason w/dyno results from a non-boosted FM 2.0 stroker: https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/im-dyno-comparo-vics-vs-vtcs-vs-flat-top-eudm-62200/

FM looks like they did some pretty good comparison stuffs, but this is a turbo car: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=453219

Here it is in all its glory a VVT + VICS 1.8L Wit new FM1 Clutch.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1332884120

It appears to be missing a car :giggle:

Glad you with for the VICS, can't wait for results on this!

My VVT head will probably visit the machine shop in a few weeks for a bit of a refresh and a skim. I don't have a 10:1 bottom end so I'm hoping to make up a little compression that way.

...and all the injector isolators are cracked so I'm waiting on them to come in. Prob put it in tmw. Everything fighting me on this simple swap.

Its always the small stuff that kicks your ass, keep the faith! :party:

Sweetness! Looks good.

I may have to research how to put a vics intake on and keep my ecu happy about the missing vtcs.

Just leave the VTCS solenoid plugged in and you won't throw a code.


I'm currently running with VICS and VVTS to the V. It's pretty sweet.

Its in and running well. Here is how to fit 99 coils to a 2001-05 motor. Simple.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1333180148

Time to order the VVTuner.

I was just talking with bryce yesterday about the 01 motor that he has in his car till the built one gets back. Now I am really interested. I'd love to pick your brain about what you did.


now I really want your block when you get the built motor back Bryce!!!

500 Miles and running great.

Ohhhh sexy... so glad to hear this is working. How does it feel?

So, just so we are clear... 99/00 ECU, injectors, fuel rail, intake manifold, sensors, and coils connected to a 01+ VVT engine? I'm guessing all you did was relocate the intake cam sensor from the front to the back, correct?

(scurrys off to order ARP headstuds, MLS headgasket, VVTuner, reroute goodies...)

99-00 ecu
99-00 intake
99-00 Injectors
99-00 fuel rail
99-00 coils
99-00 fuel injector harness

VVT head.
Used the cam sensor from the VVT, just got the wire out of the engine harness and it reached the back where the VVT cam sensor is.

Friend shop has a dyno and he wants to see a before and after the VVT setup so car will be on dyno tmw.

Just FYI, one of my friends had the same setup and when the car got hot it would have problems reving. Hopefully you do not have that issue. He was running without VVT hooked up. We tried just about everything to fix the issue, but nothing worked. We ended up swapping back on his old 99 head and he has not had an issue yet.

You sir are my god damn hero! Props for you!

What's the VVT doing now, just disconnected? I thought you had a complete 01 motor, why put the VVT head on the 9.5:1 99/00 bottom end? Very interested to see what kind of power this thing makes.

Its is a complete 2001 motor, My bad.

Hmmm really, wonder why. Mine seems to be running great. When did his problem start. All of a sudden? What you mean by "hot"? Normal operating temp or over heated?

We swapped in the motor in the spring, probably around this time of the year. It was not till closer to summer that the issue started happening. Well generally it was hot outside as in 90+ degrees and it seemed to be when the engine got up to normal operating temps. The car was never over heating. At first it would just just rev very slowly above 6k. Then the limit would slowly start dropping lower and lower. I remember he called me one day on his way home from the beach about it not being able to rev above 2.5k while sitting in traffic. He pulled into a gas station and waited for the car to cool down and then it was fine. We swapped out just about everything we could try to figure out the problem and it kept persisting. Once the 99 head was swapped over it never had the problem again.

Hope I do not run into this. Thanks for the info.

Here is today Dyno sheet. Still no VVT working so this is a "before" pull.

Ignore the 94hp graph thats my LeMons car.

123 is pretty good.

The 'with VVT' plot should yield the same max HP.

So, time to beg for updates! :bigtu:

What's your current state of awesomeness, and how are things running? I'm curious if Shuiends issue has cropped up here as things have warmed up. VVT is still just chilling there disconnected?

I'm a friend of mikes.

I did the same swap in my 99, has been in for 600 or so miles no hiccups. made 120/108 on the dyno...bone stock.

Car is for sale btw!

EO2K, Still have not hooked up VVT controller but it runs flawlessly. No issues at all.

JETSWU87.....how cute it says "Junior Member" below your SN, someone must know you.

I'm seriously running out of reasons to not do this swap...

Thanks for the update, form both of you guys! Glad to see there's more than one of these running around.

Uh oh... https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...nms-ecu-69111/

I may be out of excuses if :brain: delivers :rofl:

sorry to bring up an old thread but I am doing the same swap, an 01 engine into my 99. I'm having trouble with the spark plug wires. which wires did you use? I currently have NGK blues and the top filler ring will not go into the VVT valve cover. also, I have to do a coolant reroute because the vvt head that I bought already had the coolant hose adapter cut off. so I have to tap and screw in a new elbow to run my coolant to my oil filter. but my main question is what head gasket did you use? I currently have a 99-00 gasket on right now but I just ordered the 01-05 head gasket. should I just wait to slap everything together? thanks in advance

...and it's gonna get worse real quick if you don't get your shit straight.

to avoid being neg catted into oblivion, do the following:
1) post in the meet & greet. Tell us a bit about you, your car, & where you live
2) don't take over other people's threads or necropost, or ask questions that have been answered over & over. At least do some searching first man!
3) read this thread at least 5 times. It covers all the questions you have asked: https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...athread-80469/