warped manifold...too much heat?
 

Ok so all my studs are screwed-up, turbo flange is warped, and I discovered that my manifold is warped. Is this normal for a track car? AFR is 11.5:1 in boost, spark map has crazy advance...so am I possibly overheating this guy? I'm sending the manifold to BEGi to get all the work done and I'm adding an EGT because apparently I need to. Any thoughts on this?

Its easy to look at the gasket and notice that things are not good:
http://i42.tinypic.com/xkmvf6.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/zkpbad.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/34zitjn.jpg

Do you have any way to measure fuel delivery to each cylinder? I'd be worried you're running lean in one and creating a hot spot...

(Unless of course your faulty studs are creating a leak of some sort.)

- L

I don't have any way to do that, but I put cleaned injectors in them. Also, look how black that shit is...its definitely not lean. I guess i could put EGT on each cylinder with a bunch of $22 bungs, but that's going to get expensive.

Maybe Corky will chime in. Right now I'm thinking they will recommend surfacing (duh) and cutting bigger reliefs. I don't see how I'm hitting too-high EGT's if AFR is where's its supposed to be. As for spark, I have no less than 22* at the 15psi at 7k rpm...all of my settings are reasonable.

Studs are fine in the head.

Now that the bugger has warped. Deck the flange and reinstall.

is this typical? will it happen again? Do I have a problem?

Thanks

it looks like #1 and #4 never sealed....

Are you sure it wasn't warped when you got it?

once it's been heat cycled, it shouldn't re-warp. splitime's suggestion is solid.

also did you check the flange nuts or retighten them? were they loose at all?

I dunno if this helps, but my greddy manifold is a bitch to get on and off now, I'm fairly certain it's warped. I tend to run on the hot side at the track as well, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what caused it.

it did, considering that it spooled 500rpm later after the track running.

nah, the bolts were tight. Splittime's suggestion makes sense...before I get the checkbook out. By checkbook, I mean "check card."

So is heat cycling then having to resurface the flange again common practice? Or is this an exception since it was ran hard?

Its one of those unknown unknowns I think.

+ new relief cuts.

Chris

my ETD manifold pulled the flange all over the place. I never re-decked it but I did do relief cuts and re-mounted it and it's been pretty solid and not leaky since. But there is only one track event on it...

this manifold had relief cuts...now they're touching. Look at the shape of the stud-holes. lol

Yup that's what mine did. I have all the suggested relief cuts on my greddy manifold, which is a lot more than yours by the looks of it. They're all touching now. We're kind of asking for it by separating the flange into multiple pieces.

my first manifold warped so bad i had to cut it off the head....

That sucks. Not seen it before. This is new:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Oml-XV4A08o/SM...8%28002%29.jpg

Did you use a new gasket or reuse the old one? Was it clean as new when reused? It may be that the warping came after a small exhaust leak, that heated the outside too much and caused it loosening more and warping more.

Get a new exhaust gasket for sure, and retighten several times after heat cycling. And use your Rebond...

I used a new gasket, so I guess I'll buy another. I'm not using the threadlocker there.

i was waiting for this to happen! too much ignition advance = more heat = warped shit.

spark advance and egt are inversely proportionate.

Too little advance moves the heat to the exhaust as the fuel is still burning in the manifold/turbo, that's where the higher egt #s come from with retarded timing, but too much advance makes the combustion hotter, which also raises egt's.

One of the reasons why you can't rely on egt alone to tune a motor.

I was about to mention that too much retard will also run it too hot. This happened to a friend of mine and it ended up overheating the turbo and the seals got cooked....which made for a cool Spy Hunter-ish smoke screen on the interstate...but destroyed the turbo.

have you actually seen spark advance increase EGT? I don't understand how flame temp will vary if AFR stays constant.

Hopefully I haven't done any damage to the turbo or valves, but soon the EGT gauge will tell the story.

Curious what Corky/Tim say. With your build and intended use I'd say the EGT was a must. Very suprised you didn't have one. Problems suck and I know you were more than a little concerned about them. Goes to show being paranoid doesn't mean people aren't out to get you!

I can't count how many times people on this board have steered folks away from EGT gauges claiming it's not useful in the day and age of A/F gauges.

This post reaffirms the importance of knowing EGTs for me. Something was obviously getting too hot.

well the stuff is on a UPS truck on its way to San Antonio. On a lighter note, I just ran 2-sessions at the indoor karting place in OKC in business attire and set the #5 lap time on my second session, lol. Not bad for a 190lb old man competing with a bunch of children. Its also notable that I did this in a pair of Salvatore Ferragamo's, lol. Unfortunately the record is still 2.5 seconds faster than me so its going to take a miaracle to get to the top of the board...or talent, and I have neither.

maybe this will inspire me to call kelly and order-up some water.

Ferragamo makes pumps in your size?

Random hijack of your own thread, but I love indoor karting! There's a couple places around here that do it, one of them has brand new Sodi karts, 6.5hp and 9hp. I've qualified for the 9's and they're great fun, but those 6.5 are more like Miatas, the tracks a little big for them so you need to eek every fps out of them in order to get a good lap. If your tail just barely steps out that lap is effectively over. It's the very next best thing to a track day. And honestly, since I don't have to spend any on gas or repairs, I think $160 in the karts and a $160 track day would be just as much fun, not that I'll ever do that.

:giggle:

someone's first in line at the semi annual nordy's sales...