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Old 07-09-2010, 03:41 PM   #1
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Default What should I do? V. Wasting my money/time?

Just got the car 1-2 months ago or so. I'm already hankering for more power, but admit that my driving mod still needs to be greatly improved. What I would like to do is copy hustlers setup with 2860R and ARTech Hot Parts, and built motor. This would also involve getting a 1.8 and swapping it. This would cost as much or more than I actually paid on the car. The car will be driven for fun and track days as much as I can. But in all honestly I'm probably not ready for a 300whp Miata.


What I'm considering is sticking with stock 1.6L, getting a 1.6 manifold from ARTech, downpipe and new turbo. ( ALL V-BAND for sure) Would this increase be worth my time over my current Greddy kit?


Something like 2560R (or chinacharger) and full 3" DP. Obviously with stock motor I couldnt safely go over 12psi or so. So would that be worth the money?

How much of a power increase could I expect over my current setup?



Thanks for reading all that **** by me.



JBrown


Current Mods:




Engine:
Greddy Turbo/Manifold
BEGI 2.5" downpipe and 3" full exhaust
Custom intercooler and piping
RX7 injectors
Megasquirt plug and play ECU tuned by UMS tuning 186 rwhp at 11 psi
LCI wideband 02 sensor
Koyo radiator

Suspension/Chassis:
NB miata hard S bilstein shocks
NB shock mounts
NB bumpstops
NB Shock tower brace
H&R springs
Flyin' Miata frame rail braces
Precision 4 wheel alignment by Schroders in Tucson

Wheels/tires/brakes
NB big sport package brakes
Nearly new axxis metal master brake pads
Kosei K1 racing 15x7 wheels
Kumho XS 205/50/15 tires with less than 1k miles

Drivetrain
1.8 liter limited slip differential setup
1.8 halfshafts
Rebuilt shifter
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Old 07-09-2010, 04:24 PM   #2
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If you're not going over 12psi, what's the point in getting a new turbo? You're not even pushing what you have. Water/meth is really the only worthwhile thing you can do and it's probably not worth the money/hassle on a stock motor. Build or swap.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:02 PM   #3
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There's a couple different thoughts on the subject:

A. Dump money into it and have an incredibly fast and reliable track machine.
Cons: Expensive
Pros: Fast and reliable

B. Drive it as is until it breaks, upgrading parts that break.
Cons: you could waste an entire track day if it breaks early on, and you could be driving around issues for a while
Pros: You don't "waste" any more money than you need to.

C. Revert to near stock for ultimate reliability.
Cons: Slow
Pros: Reliable and cheap

I've always thought for a track car a MS ran N/A 1.8 would be fun. Couple simple mods and then go have fun, that's part of the whole "if you can't drive 90hp you can't drive 900" concept.

Anyways, weigh the pros and cons of the choices above, and start a build thread.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:25 PM   #4
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The torque from the built 1.8 and tubular manifold is awesome. At a local track I can short-shift to 4th at 3800rpm through sweepers to stay off the rev-limit and still make-up ground on Vettes in the fast run-group. As for the price of the car and mods...the shocks I want cost more than I paid for both Miatas combined. Its a 20-year old car and for $20k in go-fast-crap, I get to compete with experienced drivers in $40k and $62k cars. I see the built 1.8 as a fundemental part considering power and reliability...its the standard for building a reliable track car.

If you want to be competitive in TT, build a 1.8. You're right about the 300whp/skill topic...right now 250whp is a handful. Considering a Mustang or Dynodynamics rooler: 220-230whp is fun, 250whp is supercar like performance.

I recently had a check-ride for the TT license and the passenger told me, "god damn this car is violent." Sadly, he has a prepped integra with a 230whp motor and he and I are neck-and-neck on the track...kind-of sad. Your suspension set-up sucks ***. Good shocks, wide wheels, and set-up are worth more than the increase in power that you'll get from the 1.8. Confused yet...right. You basically can't go wrong either way but I know my built motor is going to survive 2-days of hardcoreness at a track 5-hours away.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:29 PM   #5
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Soooo, what should I do, go straight from Greddy to built 1.8?



The main thing I'm worried about is ME actually doing the swap once I have the 1.8 built.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:32 PM   #6
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You mean physically taking one engine out and putting another in? Hustlers talking about spending $20k on a $2k car and you're worried about a 3 hour engine swap?
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:33 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown7815 View Post
Soooo, what should I do, go straight from Greddy to built 1.8?



The main thing I'm worried about is ME actually doing the swap once I have the 1.8 built.
The bolting-together is very easy and swaps are documented online with pictures, you litterally bolt **** together and turn the key. I chose the built 1.8 for one reason in my 1991 car...reliability. I also scored a 99 motor trans and rear end for $500. Can you get a deal on a 99 motor?


Edit: Exactly what is your goal with this car? Do you want to curb stomp idiots at HPDE crap or do you want to be a man and be competitive in TT?
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:34 PM   #8
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Well obviously I'm not going to spend 20k on my car, atleast not at once.


Probably 6k or so. Money comes and goes, but I get so frustrated doing the work. I'd feel like I'd **** something up doing the swap.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
The bolting-together is very easy and swaps are documented online with pictures. I chose the built 1.8 for one reason in my 1991 car...reliability. I also scored a 99 motor trans and rear end for $500. Can you get a deal on a 99 motor?


Edit: Exactly what is your goal with this car? Do you want to curb stomp idiots at HPDE crap or do you want to be a man and be competitive in TT?
The one I showed you, $700 or so for complete 99 motor.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post

Edit: Exactly what is your goal with this car? Do you want to curb stomp idiots at HPDE crap or do you want to be a man and be competitive in TT?
Both?


Also be fun on the street.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:39 PM   #11
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Both?


Also be fun on the street.
Well, if you want to be competitive in TTB you need at least 250whp on a real dyno...so that means you probably want to build a motor, most likely a 1.8. A 99 head moves a ****-load more air.

With the way the car sits right now, I'd buy Trackspeed turbo hardware, buy 15x9's, buy my Tein Flex so I can buy Xidas, and get your cooling system up to snuff, and buy a ****-load of heat abatement crap. Run what you have until you have a 99 motor in your hands, then pull the trigger and do the power-plant all the way the first time.

You have solid power now to learn to drive...stuff the right suspension parts in it now, do power last. Even though the power is fun I still get a bigger grin on my face when I sustain extreme grip and lay down a hot-lap.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Well, if you want to be competitive in TTB you need at least 250whp on a real dyno...so that means you probably want to build a motor, most likely a 1.8. A 99 head moves a ****-load more air.

With the way the car sits right now, I'd buy Trackspeed turbo hardware, buy 15x9's, buy my Tein Flex so I can buy Xidas, and get your cooling system up to snuff, and buy a ****-load of heat abatement crap. Run what you have until you have a 99 motor in your hands, then pull the trigger and do the power-plant all the way the first time.
Yeah that's what I'm thinking. What do you mean by trackspeed hardware? (new turbo/mani/DP?) All from them?

How much for your Tein's?
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:43 PM   #13
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Yeah that's what I'm thinking. What do you mean by trackspeed hardware? (new turbo/mani/DP?) All from them?

How much for your Tein's?
Trackspeed is selling inconel turbo hardware that won't stretch or come loose like the **** you have now. If your turbo is not falling off the manifold, you're not driving hard enough. Let me drive it for 2-laps and I'll make the turbo come loose.

I haven't thought about it yet but if you're interested email me and we can talk. Unfortunately if I were you, I'd buy XIDAs even if the Teins were cheap.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:45 PM   #14
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Well I replaced all the studs so I should be g2g for atleast a week. (May do track day this weekend, DEF. doing one next weeknd. INDE Motorsports Ranch FTW)


I beat the **** out of the car, everytime I drive it.


Oh and I don't see myself spending 4k on coilovers for a while.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:50 PM   #15
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The only other thing I'm going to say to convolute things even further is that since I bought the AF hot-parts...I have only worked on the hot parts once to safetywire (inconel) the CHRA. I don't have to jack with studs, nuts, tools...nothing. The engine is the most reliable part of my car. That alone was worth the money because it saves me so much time and grief. I was stranded one time in Little Rock because of stupid studs and I spent the money because I didn't want to deal with that ever again.

Although expensive, the nice v-band parts will pay for themselves in pizza-mind.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:50 PM   #16
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I beat the **** out of the car, everytime I drive it.
How much faster are you than the SM record?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown7815 View Post
Oh and I don't see myself spending 4k on coilovers for a while.
I said this a while ago, now I'm about to get in line for his budget "club sport" AST shocks for roughly $2k.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:51 PM   #17
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Oh I plan 100% to do FULL v-band on whatever I do next after replacing these damn studs the last few days. PITA
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:52 PM   #18
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How much faster are you than the SM record?
I don't have much track exp at all. N/A Miata's were beating me by several seconds. I've done one track day, and this is my first RWD car.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:53 PM   #19
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It just sucks I can't swap the Greddy turbo out without getting a new manifold AND downpipe. Just a little bigger/better spool would be nice.
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Old 07-09-2010, 05:56 PM   #20
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It just sucks I can't swap the Greddy turbo out without getting a new manifold AND downpipe. Just a little bigger/better spool would be nice.
I make 230wtq at 3400rpm, 240wtq at 4000...on 11psi, lol. I bet you could buy a 1.6 kit from Abe, then when you switch to the manly built 1.8 get another manifold made that mates-up to your downpipe and sell the 1.6 manifold on here and smile all the way to the track.
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