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Old 04-21-2014, 10:20 AM   #1
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Default What time is it? Over Retarded time

I have been struggling with a P0012 code (cam timing over retarded). Car is a stock 2001.

The code is intermittent, The CEL/MIL will come on, then after 2 or 3 drive cycles it will turn off. The code is still in the computer when the light is off. Low rpm and high load seems to reliably set the code, but I am not certain if this is the only conditions that cause it.

Oil is fresh Rotella t6. I also swapped out the cam sensor with another one I had. I cleaned out the oil supply tube and the solenoid when I had the valve cover off.

My last thought might be the timing. This is how It was timed when I buttoned it up yesterday:







Sorry, it is hard to get a good angle on the cam gears with the big camera. I think the timing looks decent, but I would appreciate another sets of eyes.

I did a back to back drive with my brother's 2003, his seems to get a extra boost of torque at 3k RPM that my car does not. He noticed the difference as well. The only things my car has that his does not is the competition motor mounts and poly diff bushings.

Any Help is appreciated.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:27 AM   #2
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I counted 19 teeth between the cams, and unfortunately the cam gear doesn't make it completely clear what the cam position should be at TDC.

Around 3k is where the VVT should be advancing, did you remember to plug in the VVT solenoid?
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:10 AM   #3
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It is plugged in. When it is unplugged, it throws another code for solenoid open circuit.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:36 AM   #4
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If the timing belt hasn't jumped a tooth, then the solenoid is probably stuck closed.

Is the car down on power between 2-4K? Or more easily diagnosed, does it feel like it literally kicks into life at about 4-4.5k RPM?
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:42 PM   #5
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You will have to forgive me, I got this car last year, and since it was garaged all winter, I don't have a good feel for what it is supposed to feel like.

The low end does not seem all that bad. it seems to make smooth consistent power from 2.5k to 7k. less than 2.5 it gets rather gutless if you are in a tall gear, but I don't think that indicates anything is wrong.

I was not even convinced something was wrong until I drove my brothers car. He has a 2003 that is still on it's original timing belt. our cars feel very similar until about 3k, after that his seems to get a little jump power, and mine feels the same all the way to redline.


I can unplug the solenoid and drive around at lunch, if it feels the same, that would imply you are correct and it is stuck closed.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:11 PM   #6
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There is a noticeable difference when driving with the vvt hooked up vs not. I cleared the P0012 and was able to get it to set again by driving at around at 1500 RPM. Freeze frame said 60% load at 29 MPH (6th gear)

Oil valve is not stuck, It moves when I apply 12 volts to it. It was opening and closing on its own, which I think is from the power supply getting overloaded. I was bench testing with a cell phone charger I hacked up, it could only supply .8 amps.
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