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What's the best budget fuel system upgrade?

 
Old 06-16-2018, 10:33 AM
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Default What's the best budget fuel system upgrade?

'95 (obd1) 1.8l miata.
It currently has stock oem fpr, stock fuel pump, stock fuel rail, lines, etc..

I just got megasquirt finally! I'm looking for the best, yet low cost choice for a fuel system to run my boosted miata up to stock internals capacity. 220-240whp.

Kind of like a flyin miata 2 turbo kit power goals.

From what i understand; please correct me if I'm wrong, but i have come up with 2 choices to go with so far to meet my goals. I am wanting to ask you guys with more experience, which way is better for me or what else options do i have.

1) upgrade to a 255lph walboro fuel pump $90 + run rx8 yellow 420cc injectors $60

2) buy 550cc injectors from a reputable brand. Such as the ones flyin miata uses in their fm2 turbo kit. Although that is pretty expensive.

But i am also wanting to ask this because i want to make sure i am right with not needing a upgraded fmu or anything with these 2 options.

What's the best choice within 250-300$?

I would like to run e85 in the future too but it's not super important.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-16-2018, 11:06 AM
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$320, 630cc:

Products ? Flow Force Injectors

That's really all you need to change. Your stock bump is merely maintaining the stock FPR's set 43.5psi, no more, no less. Back in the days of adjustable fuel pressure regulators, we'd be running up to 120psi of fuel pressure as boost increases rather than increase injector size, so we always suggested different fuel pumps. For 220-240, you only need injectors. If the stock pump fails, that's a great opportunity to upgrade so future increases in power don't require a new pump.
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Old 06-16-2018, 11:16 AM
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X2 on what Curly said above. Flow Force injectors is all you need at that level
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Old 06-16-2018, 11:59 AM
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Is there an advantage to adding a radium fuel rail to the OPs proposed setup?
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 View Post
Is there an advantage to adding a radium fuel rail to the OPs proposed setup?
At those power levels it would be pointless
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Old 06-16-2018, 12:40 PM
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Also, for a little more money, i'm running Fuel Injector Development's 1000cc injectors. They cost $365.
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by skylinecalvin View Post
Also, for a little more money, i'm running Fuel Injector Development's 1000cc injectors. They cost $365.

Where the did you hell did you find ID1000 for $365
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by matrussell122 View Post
Where the did you hell did you find ID1000 for $365
I have Fuel Injector Developments, a different company from Injector Dynamics. My tuner runs this company's injectors in all his 1000+ HP cars so he happily suggested them to me.

www.fuelinjectordevelopment.com/1000.html
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Old 06-16-2018, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mrmonk7663 View Post
Is there an advantage to adding a radium fuel rail to the OPs proposed setup?
I made 350whp on pump with stock rail and fpr
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by skylinecalvin View Post
I have Fuel Injector Developments, a different company from Injector Dynamics. My tuner runs this company's injectors in all his 1000+ HP cars so he happily suggested them to me.
This means absolutely nothing. At all. I just want to point out to the future n00bs reading this.

Power level has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUALITY OF INJECTORS.

Don't even compare them to ID. It's not even in the same league.
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:25 PM
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I thought the stock fuel pump ran out of steam with larger injectors?
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:29 PM
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You either pay the money for known good injectors and pump, or run trash and remember that you chose it this way. Fuel system and ecu affect the driveability of the car. Every. Single. Day.

So every single time you get in your car to drive it, your trash choices will remind you that you made a bad decision.
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
This means absolutely nothing. At all. I just want to point out to the future n00bs reading this.

Power level has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE QUALITY OF INJECTORS.

Don't even compare them to ID. It's not even in the same league.
I wouldn't say I compared it. Somebody misread and thought I found ID100s for cheap so I clarified that they were different brands.
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Old 06-16-2018, 02:36 PM
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Bottom line is this: forget option 1 and option 2. Re-think your plan and stop being so cheap. You'll be happy in the end.

I disagree with curly about pumps. I've seen so many of them on their way out/failing that I basically tell everyone to replace theirs. These cars are old. Really old. So old that even a wally 255 is considered a really old non-ethanol compatible pump, even if they seem to hold up ok with ethanol. Otherwise yeah FF is probably the cheapest injector I'd run, at $320, and dw200 is only like 20 bux more than a wally.
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:09 PM
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I misread what he wrote. Was playing with my 2 year old at the time. Really the ID1000 are affordable in the turbo world anyway. I think fab 9 has them for $450 ish which isn't much more than tthe flow forces. But I wouldn't run anything other than FF or ID
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:27 PM
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I don't mind spending the extra money (I bought a MS3Pro but will be switching to something else in a few weeks). I wouldn't consider the FID's a run of the mill cheap ebay brand as I've read a good amount of reviews. With the price difference, I don't expect them to be an ID1000 replacement but rather a cheaper alternative. Are the FIDs that much worse than FF and ID's that they shouldn't be purchased? I know they are way more unknown than the aforementioned but that shouldn't be a reason to avoid.

My build itself I wouldn't consider too cheap to be called a decent budget build (except for possibly the injectors).
- To be installed MaxxECU Race Model w/ a 4.2 wideband sensor
- Kraken Kit
- 2554r (which I will replace in the distance future)
- Running egr sensors
- E85 (not really needed but why not)
- Qmax Coolant reroute w/ proper HG
- Crappy oem replacement radiator w/ 12" SPAL fan. If I have any cooling issues, I will bite the bullet on a SM Crossflow radiator
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:02 PM
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I know they are way more unknown than the aforementioned but that shouldn't be a reason to avoid.
I never fail to be amused by the idiotic logic. People just refuse to embrace facts/truth anymore. It's all about feelings and perceptions.

With precision parts that are responsible for controlling/fueling an internally combustion engine, what you're paying for is the knowns. When you buy garrett or borgwarner, you're paying for the knowns. The fact that they will give you what they said they would. Why are china turbo's cheap? Because you're paying for a cat in a bag. Do they "work"? Sure. But to then compare them to a known brand using that logic is just plain stupid. Injectors is the same.

So if you're buying a set of injectors with the only "known" being a couple guys saying "it worked, and my car didn't blow up" that's just plain hilarious.

Seems like facts/logic/reason is a dying trend.

These are the same people that are idling at 12afr, car bucks and stumbles, but BRO IT MADE A BUNCH OF PEAK POWER SO THEY'RE TOTES LEGIT BRO

PS: don't take this personal. I'm not attacking you. I'm simply disgusted with seeing the insane trend of comparing crap to awesomeness and justifying crap cause it hasn't blown up someone's car. Seeing someone put together a properly built miata because they apply logic and understand why better parts cost more is refreshing, cause it's rare.

IF ID's cost $200, some schmoe tomorrow would be introducing another injector that costs $20. It literally never ends.
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:29 PM
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Don't worry, I don't take what you say personal at all. You're one of the most knowledgeable people on this forum.

I understand what you say, don't trust random people as their version of "works well" can be pretty underwhelming compared to what you guys expect. I've seen a car with these idle within 5-10rpm so very smooth idle (albeit running with the MaxxECU as well so not really a apple to apple comparison). I've been told they flow well with a consistent spray pattern (but what manufacturer wouldn't say good things about their own product). The main reason I went with these injectors was simply trusting my tuner and the shop he works for. They have a long history of pushing out well tuned cars for both daily driving and drag racing.
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:49 PM
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EV14 injectors. That is all.

https://youtu.be/VOShpmxxIU0
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Old 06-16-2018, 05:08 PM
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Now there's a cool illustration

When you start to really do some homework about this stuff, you realize that it's not just hype. There are VAST differences between different (even same-gen) injectors.
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