Hydra 2.7 is setup (Add Vent)
 

I just upgraded from 2.6 to 2.7, so far the tune is in. I still don't know if I am having the hot start issue that I had with the 2.6 version (That was NEVER an issue with the 2.5 version, should have left well enough alone) I spent the last 2+ years waiting for 2.7 to be released and haven't been pleased with the 2.6 version at all!

So far my issues are trying to figure out how to make my AC turn on, turn on my primary radiator fan that doesn't seem to be working along with my AC now, oh and the output to the altenator can only be set to 12.3 volts without possibly causing your car to catch on fire! (that is an assumption as they warn you not to use a voltage higher than 12.3 in the auto setting. So now that my battery has died twice due to lack of charging. The firmware update that was released on 11/23 that is only now available 4 days later has been downloaded yet won't be applied until tomorrow.

As far as customer services goes here is how I got my 2.7 upgrade...

Way back when when I upgraded from 2.5 to 2.6 I got my unti back and had complained about the WBO2 not working anymore. I was told tough shit (not in those words) your WBO2 must be broken and you will need to purchase a new one. Since the purchase of the new one which also did not work I had to run a test on the wiring, I was told I needed a new wiring harness that goes to the WBO2 sensor, I called BS didn't buy it. Sent the ECU back to Hydra for a nominal fee. + repairs that I had to come out of pocket on to fix what was a new unit. Because obviously it being new I had done something to cause the WBO2 to stop working.

Anyway, Andrew had offered to upgrade my system to the 2.7 firmeware for free. Well after 2 years had gone by I finally pull the trigger on it call up Andrew and he says that he will honor and do the upgrade well I was never told but the upgrade was only good for the Alpha and since I needed the Beta to run the Altenator I would have to pay $150 for the upgrade, funny how the upgrade cost difference on Flying Miata's website is only a difference of $50, not to mention I had to pay for shipping to and from for an additional $45, so my free upgrade for all my issues with has now cost me $190+time.

I will be satisfied if the upgrade resolves the issue of my car not starting between the tempatures of 160F. and 200F. (Oil Temps) I haven't had the car running long enough with a battery that is charged up enough to really tell. Even though I did have an issue with a hot start over the weekend but for now I am blaming a week battery.

All the other issues I haven't been able to work out since I didn't have a laptop. But now that I do have one I should be able to at least figure out where these items are and how to get them working again.

Sorry I've been holding this back for 2 years to get my free upgrade that cost me $190. So for two years I just wish I had my 2.5 back and time will tell If i'm still dreaming of an older firmware

All the while taking ridicule and constantly having to defend my purchase, I guess when your so far invested in it you don't have many options but to keep trying to go forward....:burncash::burncash::burncash:

Oh yeah, back to the original part where I sent the ECU back because my WBO2 didn't work. The ECU that was sent to me durring the 2.5 to 2.6 upgrade had a defective part causing it to kill the WBO2 that I was using. So I also had to ship my ECU back and pay for that repair and buy a new WBO2 sensor. So my cost just went up another few hundred dollars

Sorry to hear about your woes Miatamike. What exactly are the symptoms of your hot starting issue? I have trouble starting when hot too, but it seems like a faulty solenoid on the starter (turn the key and nothing). Bumping the car in gear will usually cure the non-start, but it's a pain in the rear. I plan on replacing the starter over the winter, but want to make sure it's not the ECU causing the problem.

So far I can only say for certain that it has the hot start issue with the 2.6 version of the Hydra.

With the 2.6 the car when between a certain tempature will only start if it is push started or attempted to be push started and not start. Then I can start the car normaly with the key and starter motor.

So far the 2.7 has only had that issue once and it is not clear if it was due to low voltage output from the battery or if it is still the same issue. Only time will tell for sure.

Just to clarify: When it doesn't start, will the engine at least turn over? Or, like mine, will it just "click" and do nothing?

Yes, mine is turning over just won't start.

Okay, thanks. My problem is most likely the starter solenoid then.

Somewhat back on topic, I'm considering doing the upgrade to 2.7 for three reasons:

1. Long-term trim capability
2. Supposedly better starting
3. Properly-functioning EBC

Once I get confirmation that this last item is a reality, I'll probably pull the trigger. In all other ways, I'm very happy with the smoothness and drivability of my Hydra.

One of the things that is supposedly fixed with the new firmware version is the EBC, which currently works about as well as either no extra boost added or way way to much. currently it is very erradic with the same setting, I would either get an extra 2PSI on top of my wastgate or so far as much as to hit my peak limit at 16PSI.

I thought I was going to get to do some testing on the car today but I'm going to ride with a friend a few hundred miles to go pick up a trailer instead

Man, I'd be pissed if I laid out that kinda money for an ecu and it was still that buggy. That's what I like about MS. Support is top notch because, A. the guys that write the code stay on top of it. B. Large user base (someones sure to have experienced a similar issue) C. Support forum D. MS2 guys were able to upgrade to MS3 instead of needing a whole new system.

I'm by no means trying to bash Hydra, but I do want people that are new to this to know that they have options. Thanks for posting your troubles.

Just another thing for anyone doing the firmware update. Make sure you attach a battery charger to your car because it just took 45+ minutes to upload and update the firmware patch to the car.

Update:

Fixed the fan issue <broken/loose wire>,

A/C is still not working, pulled the pressure switch and shorted out the wires to activate the connection to let the A/C compressor come on. Still did not turn on. Thats about as far as I got with it.

Altenator issue, did a data log but like a fool i turned off the engine and lost my log :-{ but everytime I looked over at it the target was what I had it set to without going over and spiking much, but again no log and I can't watch it and drive either...

Maybe its time I buy a truck w/ trailer and retired my miata pull the A/C and make it a track only..

Update:

The car has started after running at temp and sitting for a few minutes. It did take a few cranks to get it going but not anymore than it had when it was cold this morning. Whenever I get a laptop again I can start to change some of my start settings. Seems like its not getting fuel until it cranks for a while or if I pump the gas.

Where'd you get your hydra from? FM can provide support.


To diagnose starting issues

Power on car without starting it
Let it sit for a minute or so until AFR stabilizes at full lean. That means sensor is warmed up.
Start logging
Crank that bitch let it roll solja fucking ghetto nig boy whatever
look at log


Or look at afr while cranking. Your coolant temp trim map may be fucked. Or base fuel map may be fucked too. Unfuck

Also run more boost

Are you turning on the ignition and counting to three before cranking (letting the ECU boot and fuel pressure stabilize)? Fae's advice regarding datalogging is good. Doing that over several days of cold, warm and hot starts will allow you to tune for all starting issues.

I turn the ignition on and wait for the fuel pump to stop pumping by that time it has fuel pressure, its probably about 5-10 seconds with the key on before I start to crank.

Currently I don't have a laptop, i borrowed one from work over the weekend. I do have access to a laptop but I really don't like having to lug the thing around. Especially if I decide to ride the motorcycle in to work then it makes it a pain for me to get my laptop back.

Here's the thing: I have a fuel-pressure gauge and have noticed that it take a couple of seconds for FP to rise, and then it starts to dissipate immediately afterwards. Accordingly, your best starting opportunity is after a 3-count.

Oddly enough with the 2.7 so far it has been the exact opposite. So far it has actually started faster by just cranking it right off the bat instead of letting the lines build pressure. With that being said I have changed everything.

Just installed the lastest and greatest release of the firmware from r49 to r51.
This is supposed to change the frequency that the altenator runs on (64htz) and is said to be stable putting out 13.5 volts. (I'll see tomorrow) Also changed maps and trims for starting the car.

After installing the firmware i think my battery was to weak to get the car to start. Put it on the trickle charger for a few hours watched the hockey game and the car started up almost immediately. I guess I will find out tomorrow morning how much better it is or not.

Not sure this really matters. The fuel pump runs while the motor is cranking and it's not like the fuel lines empty out.

Well they finally released the R53 firmware for the Hydra 2.7. The voltage on the car is now stable at 14.4 volts.

The car is now able to start when cold easily and start when hot easily. Pretty much starts on first crank even better than it did when I first got it setup with 2.5.

What changed (Here comes the humble pie) Jeremy had said I needed to redo my map; and that it had to many old features in it. So I loaded a base map that he provided to me and viola` it runs like a champ. Of course not without any of the fine tuning on the dyno I can't really run the car hard or in boost much even though it shows to be safe AFR's and knock.

So the only thing I need to do now is wait for them to fix the EBC part of the ECU so I can reactivate the go fast button on my dash after I get the car retuned for boost.

So after 2 years of hating my car and the hydra setup. It looks like things are going back to a better place. To bad I was so hard headed before and should have just started a new long ago...

Yay. I am upgrading next month.

Can you post a log of you driving, including redline pulls? I want to see if voltage is fluctuating or dropping under load

I haven't been taken any logs since upgraded to R53. But I did drive the car for well over an hour with multiple loads and it was easily within .5 volts wereas before it after 20 minutes or so it would fluctuate +/- 2volts or more. I can take a log and post it up probably on tuesday as i am going out of town. But If I can get the log on my phone I'll see if I can use the data cable to upload a log from my Droid.

Also I can't really give a good read out on driving as my car is now untuned under boost and my WBO2 is not calibrated; and its going to be to cold for me to want to do much outside this weekend anyway :-|

BTW: the logging for 2.7 is not very good, or I just can't figure out how to set the items I want to capture like Voltage.

Short Log
 

Short Log file Rename file to .RDF the forum wouldn't take that file type

Mike, I'm eagerly awaiting more posts from you, since I have similar hot-restart issues with my '99 Miata.

The previous owner added the FM turbo kit with Hydra 2.5 about 4 years ago. I bought the car 2 years ago and the EBC worked, but the car frequently stalled at red lights, especially when the AC was on; and the car often overheated on hot summer days; plus some other little problems.

Jeremy convinced me that I needed the 2.6 upgrade, which was just a waste of cash. The upgrade promptly killed my EBC and fixed nothing. Jeremy sent me a MBC to replace the EBC, which has worked well. He also raised my idle to 1200 to eliminate the stalling issues, and put in the high-speed SPAL fans to reduce overheating.

Since then I've had hot-restart issues; for example, after a 20-minute highway drive, if I stop the car for less then 10 minutes, then try to restart the car, it just cranks over without starting, sometimes as though there's no fuel (even though I have a fuel gauge attached which always reads about 55 psi); sometimes it goes "clunk" and the engine stops hard, like detonation at the wrong time, driving the crankshaft in the wrong direction; but most often gunshot-loud bangs out the tailpipe. Jeremy has sent modified maps and suggested various map/calibration changes that haven't helped. I also tried recalibrating my O2 sensor, but the values came out the same as 2 years ago, when I put a new sensor in.

Jeremy suggests upgrading to 2.7, but I've heard about the battery regulation issues, and have heard nothing close to a guarantee that version 2.7 can fix a hot-restart issue, since no one seems to know what the root cause is to begin with. No one in the Colorado club has the 2.7, and I'm tired of being the guinea pig. So I'm at the point where I'd just as soon plunk an equivalent wad of cash down on a MegaSquirt, unless Jeremy / Andrew offer a darn good deal on the upgrade and some sort of good odds that it will actually fix something. Because the 2.6 sure didn't... fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, and I'll drive this @#$% car through... but I digress.

It's frustrating... I can't take the car to the track, because if I stall it on the track and can't get it restarted, it could literally be a life-threatening situation, for me or for the other drivers coming around the curves. And I can't even stop to pick up the dry-cleaning on the way home, because I'll be stuck there for 15 minutes waiting for the car to cool.

Sheesh...you guys are really making me glad I've managed to keep my old 2.17. Sure the a/c causes idle searching and stalling and the car occasionally stalls when coming to a stop if I put the clutch in at too high of RPMs (I've simply learned to heel-toe a quick blip of the throttle when coming to a stop) but other than that, the car runs fine. The long cold starts of the 2.17 is just a good way to build oil pressure before the engine starts anyway :D

Sorry for the long delays in posts. I haven't been on the forum in a while. I can say a lot of the bugs have been worked out of the car. The car will now start every time (Except for that one time when the hose popped off to the fuel feed) Ooops!

The alternator issues have been resolved and the voltage is now steady without any spikes. Currently I'm working on various other issues with the cooling system.

The ECU will then be re-tuned and i will try and work out the EBC at that time and see how it does.

The drivability is fairly close to stock again for as modified as the car is.

Biggest draw back is that it takes like 1 hour to upgrade from firmware versions to the next. I do have to babysit the upgrade with a battery charger on to make sure I don't have to start over again.

That's strange - my updates take around a minute. My laptop has a native serial port (unusual nowadays) and is running XP Pro. Perhaps your Serial/USB adaptor and/or operating system is creating a bottleneck.

I'm very pleased with 2.7. Starting is immeasurably better and the LTT (Long-term Trim) feature works exactly as advertised. It took several days of driving to dial it in, but my car has never been smoother and I never had to make a single manual adjustment.

If you're still having residual drivability issues, do a recalibration on your O2 sensor (mine was way off after a few years) and, for good measure, a throttle calibration.

One more thing: You can lean out your cruise zones to about 15.3 (don't jump from 14.7 to 15.3 immediately, but smooth it out) and gain some mpg without affecting drivability.

I'm sorry, but something is very wrong with your pc / serial cable then.

I just updated mine tonight to r61 and it took 30 seconds, tops. Same as the previous release. Same as the release before that. This using a Virtual Win7 machine on my Macbook Air, and a FTDI based USB to Serial cable.

+1

Maps take 2-3 seconds, firmware takes about 5. This is from a Dell DL830 running Win7.