Hydra 2.7 is setup (Add Vent) - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 11-28-2011, 01:10 AM   #1
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Default Hydra 2.7 is setup (Add Vent)

I just upgraded from 2.6 to 2.7, so far the tune is in. I still don't know if I am having the hot start issue that I had with the 2.6 version (That was NEVER an issue with the 2.5 version, should have left well enough alone) I spent the last 2+ years waiting for 2.7 to be released and haven't been pleased with the 2.6 version at all!

So far my issues are trying to figure out how to make my AC turn on, turn on my primary radiator fan that doesn't seem to be working along with my AC now, oh and the output to the altenator can only be set to 12.3 volts without possibly causing your car to catch on fire! (that is an assumption as they warn you not to use a voltage higher than 12.3 in the auto setting. So now that my battery has died twice due to lack of charging. The firmware update that was released on 11/23 that is only now available 4 days later has been downloaded yet won't be applied until tomorrow.

As far as customer services goes here is how I got my 2.7 upgrade...

Way back when when I upgraded from 2.5 to 2.6 I got my unti back and had complained about the WBO2 not working anymore. I was told tough **** (not in those words) your WBO2 must be broken and you will need to purchase a new one. Since the purchase of the new one which also did not work I had to run a test on the wiring, I was told I needed a new wiring harness that goes to the WBO2 sensor, I called BS didn't buy it. Sent the ECU back to Hydra for a nominal fee. + repairs that I had to come out of pocket on to fix what was a new unit. Because obviously it being new I had done something to cause the WBO2 to stop working.

Anyway, Andrew had offered to upgrade my system to the 2.7 firmeware for free. Well after 2 years had gone by I finally pull the trigger on it call up Andrew and he says that he will honor and do the upgrade well I was never told but the upgrade was only good for the Alpha and since I needed the Beta to run the Altenator I would have to pay $150 for the upgrade, funny how the upgrade cost difference on Flying Miata's website is only a difference of $50, not to mention I had to pay for shipping to and from for an additional $45, so my free upgrade for all my issues with has now cost me $190+time.

I will be satisfied if the upgrade resolves the issue of my car not starting between the tempatures of 160F. and 200F. (Oil Temps) I haven't had the car running long enough with a battery that is charged up enough to really tell. Even though I did have an issue with a hot start over the weekend but for now I am blaming a week battery.

All the other issues I haven't been able to work out since I didn't have a laptop. But now that I do have one I should be able to at least figure out where these items are and how to get them working again.

Sorry I've been holding this back for 2 years to get my free upgrade that cost me $190. So for two years I just wish I had my 2.5 back and time will tell If i'm still dreaming of an older firmware

All the while taking ridicule and constantly having to defend my purchase, I guess when your so far invested in it you don't have many options but to keep trying to go forward....
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Old 11-28-2011, 01:24 AM   #2
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Oh yeah, back to the original part where I sent the ECU back because my WBO2 didn't work. The ECU that was sent to me durring the 2.5 to 2.6 upgrade had a defective part causing it to kill the WBO2 that I was using. So I also had to ship my ECU back and pay for that repair and buy a new WBO2 sensor. So my cost just went up another few hundred dollars
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:29 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miatamike View Post
...I still don't know if I am having the hot start issue that I had with the 2.6 version...

I will be satisfied if the upgrade resolves the issue of my car not starting between the tempatures of 160F. and 200F. (Oil Temps) I haven't had the car running long enough with a battery that is charged up enough to really tell. Even though I did have an issue with a hot start over the weekend but for now I am blaming a week battery.
Sorry to hear about your woes Miatamike. What exactly are the symptoms of your hot starting issue? I have trouble starting when hot too, but it seems like a faulty solenoid on the starter (turn the key and nothing). Bumping the car in gear will usually cure the non-start, but it's a pain in the rear. I plan on replacing the starter over the winter, but want to make sure it's not the ECU causing the problem.
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Old 11-28-2011, 02:38 AM   #4
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So far I can only say for certain that it has the hot start issue with the 2.6 version of the Hydra.

With the 2.6 the car when between a certain tempature will only start if it is push started or attempted to be push started and not start. Then I can start the car normaly with the key and starter motor.

So far the 2.7 has only had that issue once and it is not clear if it was due to low voltage output from the battery or if it is still the same issue. Only time will tell for sure.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:12 AM   #5
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Just to clarify: When it doesn't start, will the engine at least turn over? Or, like mine, will it just "click" and do nothing?
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:41 AM   #6
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Yes, mine is turning over just won't start.
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Old 11-28-2011, 10:43 AM   #7
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Okay, thanks. My problem is most likely the starter solenoid then.

Somewhat back on topic, I'm considering doing the upgrade to 2.7 for three reasons:
  1. Long-term trim capability
  2. Supposedly better starting
  3. Properly-functioning EBC
Once I get confirmation that this last item is a reality, I'll probably pull the trigger. In all other ways, I'm very happy with the smoothness and drivability of my Hydra.
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:30 AM   #8
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One of the things that is supposedly fixed with the new firmware version is the EBC, which currently works about as well as either no extra boost added or way way to much. currently it is very erradic with the same setting, I would either get an extra 2PSI on top of my wastgate or so far as much as to hit my peak limit at 16PSI.

I thought I was going to get to do some testing on the car today but I'm going to ride with a friend a few hundred miles to go pick up a trailer instead
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Old 11-28-2011, 11:38 AM   #9
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Man, I'd be pissed if I laid out that kinda money for an ecu and it was still that buggy. That's what I like about MS. Support is top notch because, A. the guys that write the code stay on top of it. B. Large user base (someones sure to have experienced a similar issue) C. Support forum D. MS2 guys were able to upgrade to MS3 instead of needing a whole new system.

I'm by no means trying to bash Hydra, but I do want people that are new to this to know that they have options. Thanks for posting your troubles.
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Old 11-28-2011, 12:56 PM   #10
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Just another thing for anyone doing the firmware update. Make sure you attach a battery charger to your car because it just took 45+ minutes to upload and update the firmware patch to the car.
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Old 11-28-2011, 09:50 PM   #11
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Update:

Fixed the fan issue <broken/loose wire>,

A/C is still not working, pulled the pressure switch and shorted out the wires to activate the connection to let the A/C compressor come on. Still did not turn on. Thats about as far as I got with it.

Altenator issue, did a data log but like a fool i turned off the engine and lost my log :-{ but everytime I looked over at it the target was what I had it set to without going over and spiking much, but again no log and I can't watch it and drive either...

Maybe its time I buy a truck w/ trailer and retired my miata pull the A/C and make it a track only..
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:24 AM   #12
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Update:

The car has started after running at temp and sitting for a few minutes. It did take a few cranks to get it going but not anymore than it had when it was cold this morning. Whenever I get a laptop again I can start to change some of my start settings. Seems like its not getting fuel until it cranks for a while or if I pump the gas.
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Old 11-30-2011, 03:29 AM   #13
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Where'd you get your hydra from? FM can provide support.


To diagnose starting issues

Power on car without starting it
Let it sit for a minute or so until AFR stabilizes at full lean. That means sensor is warmed up.
Start logging
Crank that bitch let it roll solja ******* ghetto nig boy whatever
look at log


Or look at afr while cranking. Your coolant temp trim map may be fucked. Or base fuel map may be fucked too. Unfuck

Also run more boost
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miatamike View Post
It did take a few cranks to get it going but not anymore than it had when it was cold this morning. ... Seems like its not getting fuel until it cranks for a while or if I pump the gas.
Are you turning on the ignition and counting to three before cranking (letting the ECU boot and fuel pressure stabilize)? Fae's advice regarding datalogging is good. Doing that over several days of cold, warm and hot starts will allow you to tune for all starting issues.
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Old 11-30-2011, 02:33 PM   #15
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I turn the ignition on and wait for the fuel pump to stop pumping by that time it has fuel pressure, its probably about 5-10 seconds with the key on before I start to crank.

Currently I don't have a laptop, i borrowed one from work over the weekend. I do have access to a laptop but I really don't like having to lug the thing around. Especially if I decide to ride the motorcycle in to work then it makes it a pain for me to get my laptop back.
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Old 11-30-2011, 03:19 PM   #16
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I turn the ignition on and wait for the fuel pump to stop pumping by that time it has fuel pressure, its probably about 5-10 seconds with the key on before I start to crank.
Here's the thing: I have a fuel-pressure gauge and have noticed that it take a couple of seconds for FP to rise, and then it starts to dissipate immediately afterwards. Accordingly, your best starting opportunity is after a 3-count.
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Old 12-14-2011, 12:50 AM   #17
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Here's the thing: I have a fuel-pressure gauge and have noticed that it take a couple of seconds for FP to rise, and then it starts to dissipate immediately afterwards. Accordingly, your best starting opportunity is after a 3-count.
Oddly enough with the 2.7 so far it has been the exact opposite. So far it has actually started faster by just cranking it right off the bat instead of letting the lines build pressure. With that being said I have changed everything.

Just installed the lastest and greatest release of the firmware from r49 to r51.
This is supposed to change the frequency that the altenator runs on (64htz) and is said to be stable putting out 13.5 volts. (I'll see tomorrow) Also changed maps and trims for starting the car.

After installing the firmware i think my battery was to weak to get the car to start. Put it on the trickle charger for a few hours watched the hockey game and the car started up almost immediately. I guess I will find out tomorrow morning how much better it is or not.
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeerHunter View Post
Here's the thing: I have a fuel-pressure gauge and have noticed that it take a couple of seconds for FP to rise, and then it starts to dissipate immediately afterwards. Accordingly, your best starting opportunity is after a 3-count.
Not sure this really matters. The fuel pump runs while the motor is cranking and it's not like the fuel lines empty out.
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Old 02-11-2012, 01:33 PM   #19
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Well they finally released the R53 firmware for the Hydra 2.7. The voltage on the car is now stable at 14.4 volts.

The car is now able to start when cold easily and start when hot easily. Pretty much starts on first crank even better than it did when I first got it setup with 2.5.

What changed (Here comes the humble pie) Jeremy had said I needed to redo my map; and that it had to many old features in it. So I loaded a base map that he provided to me and viola` it runs like a champ. Of course not without any of the fine tuning on the dyno I can't really run the car hard or in boost much even though it shows to be safe AFR's and knock.

So the only thing I need to do now is wait for them to fix the EBC part of the ECU so I can reactivate the go fast button on my dash after I get the car retuned for boost.

So after 2 years of hating my car and the hydra setup. It looks like things are going back to a better place. To bad I was so hard headed before and should have just started a new long ago...
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:25 PM   #20
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Yay. I am upgrading next month.

Can you post a log of you driving, including redline pulls? I want to see if voltage is fluctuating or dropping under load
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