WBO2 sensor part numbers.. replacement for Hydra WBO2.
..this shit it driving me up the walls. I have no clue what is compatable with what. I don't really feel like paying the damn $275 for a replacement from FM. But on the other hand, I can't make any sense of the replacement part numbers...I see like 329490 different Bosch numbers..with prices ranging from $150 to $600 (lol). What is the difference in half of these part numbers? Connector style and harness length?
I find it quite frustrating that Hydra sources these "golden" wbo2 sensors from VW/AUDI with part numbers that DON'T exist. Which damn one can I use? Wideband Oxygen Sensors Any of these? |
Amazon.com: Bosch 17014 Oxygen Sensor: Automotive
Cheaper then ur site. This is like the most universal one. |
So I can buy ANY WBO2 as long as it has a blue,gray,white,black and yellow wire? All the sensors are the same but have different harnesses/connectors?
This shit makes me want to feed raw bunny rabbits to toddlers that will later be thrown into a pit of rabit pitbulls. |
I bet they are all identical, just the connectors are different.
Thats why you can have one universal 4 wire oxygen sensor work for like 30 different cars. |
Doppleganger,
If you can wait until later tonight I can get you the information you need. I'm at work right now and just about to go into a meeting. Rest assured you do not have to pay $275 for a new WBO2. |
here you go.. raw info to educate yourself.
NTK L1H1 Sensor Information the hydra of various versions uses either the L1H1 or the L2H2 and these guys will have the details on them. |
Dopp,
I dont know which controller you have, but the AEM UEGO uses the Bosch LSU4.2 5 wire. You can get them from DIY for 79 bones. Bosch LSU4.2 5-wire, wide-band O2 sensor DIYAutoTune.com |
I've read that I can use a LxHx sensor, but I don't know what that means and if that simply means the sensor itself is the same or what.
So i've seen that that NTG/Bosch 24302 is a LxHx replacement, but that the Bosch LSU-4.2 is NOT a LxHx replacement. Per Techedge link The LSU-4 is similar in operation to the NTK L1H1 (although they are not interchangeable at all). And according to GVAutosport (NGK|NTK AFX Wideband Replacement Sensor - GVautosport), Bosch # 24302 IS a L2H2 but cross-references a different Honda part number then that of the known L2H2 Honda sensor. |
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger
(Post 380992)
I've read that I can use a LxHx sensor, but I don't know what that means and if that simply means the sensor itself is the same or what.
So i've seen that that NTG/Bosch 24302 is a LxHx replacement, but that the Bosch LSU-4.2 is NOT a LxHx replacement. Per Techedge link But, according to them, Bosch part number 13246 is a L1H1 replacement. And according to GVAutosport (NGK|NTK AFX Wideband Replacement Sensor - GVautosport), Bosch # 24302 IS a L2H2 but cross-references a different Honda part number then that of the known L2H2 Honda sensor. |
5 Attachment(s)
This is what I did:
1. Purchase the WBO2 sensor from Autozone Attachment 10786 and the connectors from Tech Edge (they're in Australia but everything arrived in about 2 weeks, really painless): Attachment 10787 2. You need to cut your existing Hydra wires/connector: Attachment 10788 Note the wire colors on the Bosch sensor and their location relative to the Hydra sensor before soldering: Attachment 10790 3. Solder the wires to the new connector from Tech Edge (this is what comes in the package): Attachment 10789 4. Clip the WBO2 sensor to the new connector and go through the recalibration process. That's it. You're good to go. For under $100 you can have a new sensor. If this craps out on you just buy another one for $81.00 at you're local autoparts store. Big thanks should go to Y8s for the original information and for Olderguy's soldering skills. I was just the guinea pig :) |
That helps a lot!!! ^^^^
But what i'm wondering is, can't I just use the connector from the bad sensor onto the new sensor? Or are the wires on aforementioned wbo2 different colors than the yellow/gray/white/black/blue ? And given that it's a Honda OEM sensor, i can get a whole O2 pigtail from a friend of mine..so I wouldn't even really have to order one. |
Dopp,
Edit: Now that I'm thinking about it, the new sensor wires are the same color so it should work. If you ever need to replace the sensor you would have to switch the connector again. No big deal I guess but I just liked the plug-n-play aspect of it if I ever needed to replace the sensor again. Eh, it's all the same....beats spending $275 for a sensor. |
SAF does! I can put some male/female connectors on the new splice in case anything happens. I don't mind doing a bit of wiring. Sweet, know where i'll be going tomorrow.
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I take it the wires were not damaged at the shift turret?
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nope, checked.
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Man, I wished I knew about this sooner. Could have saved a lot of money... Good to know.
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I vote for sticky in the hydra forum
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Originally Posted by RotorNutFD3S
(Post 381206)
I take it the wires were not damaged at the shift turret?
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Was talking to Mike, but ok. :)
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OK, finally got it. I actually got it from Advance Auto Parts, using part number 15401 and it was indeed $80 and the wires are the right colors. I went to AutoZone and they looked in their computer and "it didn't exist". I guess you can order it online from them, but if you're impatient like me, Advance is the place to go.
Yay...my car will finally be running better. No wonder i've been getting a light surging when driving at low speed and the idle has been 'searching' quite a bit. |
Put the brakes on this thread.
I couldn't get the 15401 WBO2 calibrated, so I turned it off. Well, a friend of mine came over today to try to sort things out. After getting a lot of nothing done..I gave up and left it on NBO2. Call FM. Yup 15401 doesn't work according to Jeremy. WTF? Oh, since I am running a 2.17 (maybe have something to do with other's success of the 15401?) and that used the old VW/AUDI sourced WBO2, I might have to send my box in for a reflash... now THAT pisses me off. WTF... My car is my daily, I don't have another car to get to work and back....downtime will damn fucking kill me.. ARGH. |
Shit! I'm running the 2.5 version. It's worked for me so far.
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maybe that's just enough difference to make it work.
So you're positively sure the 15401 wors with v2.5 and reads AFRs normally? Because if I get mine reflashed to 2.5 then I guess I can skip on the $275 (that I really don't even have right now) and use the WBO2 I bought/spliced. |
I'm not entirely sure the 2.17 CAN be "reflashed" to a 2.5. I think the hardware is different.
there's gotta be a sensor that is a drop in replacement for the 2.1 though. i cant imagine it's 275 dollars. hell, the brand new one with autotune access is 300. |
hydra forums threads on the sensor:
Hydra EMS Forums :: View topic - Wideband Sensor Problem Hydra EMS Forums :: View topic - Wideband O2 Wiring Questions |
I'm pretty sure y8s is correct. From what I remember, Jeremy did confirm awhile back that one could not upgrade from a 2.17 to 2.5. You can upgrade from 2.5 to 2.6 though but I guess that's little comfort for you at this point. Sorry Dopp that this didn't work out for you.
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Well, if it can't be reflashed I don't really care... that jsut means I don't have to be stranded without a car because the box is bouncing it's way across the country.
However, i'd still like to find a WBO2 that doesn't cost damn $275. Just for shits and giggles I stopped by NAPA to see how much for a WBO2 that i've read will work.... $420.....went to Honda to see about that... $520!!!! I laughed at the parts guy and told him a crappy 92 VX hatch wasn't even worth thaat much and walked out. |
those VX are probably worth more today than 5 years ago... good mileage and vtec if you want to do a swap but keep your ECU.
oh and maybe you want to check this out. 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 Honda Civic O2 Oxygen Sensor: sg335-REA1134-36531-P07-003-36531-P2M-A01 Auto Parts Direct To You | AutoPartsDirectToYou.com |
hmmm..might have to try that one. thanks man.
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Originally Posted by Doppelgänger
(Post 387935)
Well, if it can't be reflashed I don't really care... that jsut means I don't have to be stranded without a car because the box is bouncing it's way across the country.
However, i'd still like to find a WBO2 that doesn't cost damn $275. Just for shits and giggles I stopped by NAPA to see how much for a WBO2 that i've read will work.... $420.....went to Honda to see about that... $520!!!! I laughed at the parts guy and told him a crappy 92 VX hatch wasn't even worth thaat much and walked out. |
So what is the difference between a "LSU" sensor and a "LxHx" sensor? I found a VW/AUDI part number thats almost identical.. mine is 036 906 262 B , and the closest VW part I have found is 021 906 262 B. Reading on WBO2.net or whatever it is, says the 021 part number is the Bosch 17014 which they also call it a Bosch LSU 4.2.
Any ideas? |
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger
(Post 388800)
So what is the difference between a "LSU" sensor and a "LxHx" sensor? I found a VW/AUDI part number thats almost identical.. mine is 036 906 262 B , and the closest VW part I have found is 021 906 262 B. Reading on WBO2.net or whatever it is, says the 021 part number is the Bosch 17014 which they also call it a Bosch LSU 4.2.
Any ideas? I'll let you guys know for sure if it's the exact same plug or not. I'm picking up my replacement today, the Bosch unit. |
I don't care about the plug... I care about the sensor itself.. the plug is going to get cut off anyway.
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Sensor is slightly different, bigger holes with a smaller middle hole. I crossed the part numbers off my AEM sensor to find a Bosch number, it was in fact 17014 through a Bosch catalog. Now the connector is different, it's oval and not square. Luckily, this time, you can fit a square peg in a oval hole :laugh: Same 6 pins in the same order. It's not a tight fit, but you can feel a little resistance. It does look as though you can change the connector ends though, I'm going to give that a shot for the hell of it instead of just hoping it holds with tape. I know you're more than likely going to cut the connector off, but like I said, it's identically the same but with some longer wires.
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Originally Posted by LostSoulMiata
(Post 389135)
Sensor is slightly different, bigger holes with a smaller middle hole. I crossed the part numbers off my AEM sensor to find a Bosch number, it was in fact 17014 through a Bosch catalog. Now the connector is different, it's oval and not square. Luckily, this time, you can fit a square peg in a oval hole :laugh: Same 6 pins in the same order. It's not a tight fit, but you can feel a little resistance. It does look as though you can change the connector ends though, I'm going to give that a shot for the hell of it instead of just hoping it holds with tape. I know you're more than likely going to cut the connector off, but like I said, it's identically the same but with some longer wires.
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Originally Posted by LostSoulMiata
(Post 389135)
I crossed the part numbers off my AEM sensor to find a Bosch number, it was in fact 17014 through a Bosch catalog. Now the connector is different, it's oval and not square.
AEM UEGO sensor to 17014 Bosch sensor, my apologies for not stating this better and sooner. I'm using MS w/ AEM wideband. AEM sensor uses a square connector where as the Bosch 17014 sensor uses an oval connector, my guess it being that it's a direct replacement for VW/Audi's w/ turbo. I bought the 17014 unit like you had asked about. I don't know how your connector is, I just wanted to share some info on what the Bosch unit was like. My apologies if I came off sounding like a dick, I really wasn't being one. |
:laugh:
You're still missing my point. The Hydra WBO2 has a connector that is custom to the application..NONE of the Bosch/Audi/VW/NTK sensors out there will have the "right" connector...unless I buy the replacement from FM/Hydra. What I am looking for is the correct sensor itself. What matters is if there is a difference between a "LSU" labeled WBO2 and a "L1H1/L2H2" labeled sensor. Is the 021 part number from VW/AUDI the same actual sensor as the 036 or is it a completely different sensor. Is the 17014 actually stamped with "NTK" on it? Is it a LSU or L2H2 sensor? |
the bosch LSU is a different sensor. it's not an L1H1. it wont work.
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Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 389376)
the bosch LSU is a different sensor. it's not an L1H1. it wont work.
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Well, it seems the Honda part number that is a L2H2 sensor and is Bosch 13246 can be had at Auto Zone for $199. But, they don't stock them at all. So I called Orilley's and they were $410...but they price match. So I called and they do have one in the warehouse...and they price match. So I told the guy that AZ has them for $213 out the door and he agreed to the price and said he has a driver at the Forest Park warehouse and that he will have the driver pick up the O2 for me. So i na few hours, we'll know if I have a working WBO2 again
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Alrighty, new sensor is in. A quick run through the gears with some data logging shows AFRS dropping smoothly under full boost / 100%tps..which is good. The odd is my AFRs only go as high as 16 when I let off the throttle...so I might need to retry the free air calibration. Also, AFRs at WOT were low 10s...which could also be calibration. But the important thing is that the range of AFR seems more normal and linear to TPS/Boost.
Funny thing. When I took the 13246 out of the box, there were no markings on it, but if you pull back the loom/sleeve that covers the very top of the sensor, there is NTK markings on it. I mean, I knew it was a re-boxed NTK by my research, but it's funny to see how Bosch tries to cover it up :giggle: |
I'm stilll curious about that super cheap one I linked to. it had the right honda P/N...
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yeah... I was thinking about it, but I can return anything I buy in person much easier if it doesn't work. The only one I would have ordered online is the one from FM.
I'm getting good AFRs under boost, but my off throttle decel is only going as high as 16...so I need to figure out what is up with that. |
OK, update on the WBO2 issues i've been having.
I re-calibrated yet again last night. I didn't really change much on the Zero Cal and Grade Cal (120 and 115). I was also looking through some of my older maps at various settings and saw that the autotune RPM range was 1500-7500 and the map i've been tinkering with was like 1500-3500, so I changed that back. I also noticed the setting for cutting fuel upon lifting off the throttle..and activated that setting. So I got a little data logging done on my way to work and was pleasantly surprised. On boost AFRs properly dropped to the low 11's and held steady at WOT. But the difference when I lifted off the throttle... AFRs jumped up to 20.5 within ~1-2 second, which tells me the WBO2 is now reading correctly...and that i'm saving a little bit more fuel while driving around Unfortunatly I was stil l getting a bit of breakup when rolling into WOT...but it smoothed out at high RPMs and one I shifted, the entire next run through the RPMs was smooth. This leads me to believe it's something with the spark plugs. Probably get some new ones, gap them to .032 and go from there. So for public record.. YES, the Bosch/NTK 13246 DOES wirk with Hydra 2.15 |
does it work with 2.5 and 2.6 too? think splicing to a gauge is possible? or would it change voltages or sensitivity. I've got 2.1 but waiting for 2.6
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So does anyone know if 15401 works with 2.6, or only with 2.5?
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I've been looking at the material referenced in this thread and did some cross-referencing. My findings:
oxygensensor.net says that the L2H2 is NTK 24300 and lists it at $189 wbo2.com says L2H2 is Bosch 13246 y8s experience is that Bosch 15401 will work with 2.5 If I go to NAPA USA and search with part numbers above, I get: Search Term / Result / Price 24300 / NGK 24300 / $404 13246 / BSH 13246 / $429 15401 / BSH 15401 / $149 If I go to NAPA Canada and repeat the above, I get (prices aren't listed on-line): Search Term / Result 24300 / nothing valid 13246 / NGK 24300 / $355CDN 15401 / NGK 24302 / $218CDN NGK 24302 is listed at oxygensensor.net at $119 At Autozone: Search Term / Result 24300 / nothing valid 13246 / BSH 13246 / $318 15401 / BSH 15401 / $149 |
Added NAPA Canada pricing.
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Originally Posted by schmoo
(Post 737476)
So does anyone know if 15401 works with 2.6, or only with 2.5?
24300 / L1H1 / L2H2 / 13246 & several other numbers from Honda, Bosch, NTK & third party suppliers like SMP, etc is the 4mA pump cell sensor. Any minor variation in sleeving, harness length or connector type will result in a different part number from the same supplier. These are all made by NTK and NTK only, all other suppliers just put this in their own box. 24302 / LZA08-H6 & several other numbers from Honda, Bosch, NTK & third party suppliers like SMP, etc is the 3mA pump cell sensor. Any minor variation in sleeving, harness length or connector type will result in a different part number from the same supplier. These are all made by NTK and NTK only, all other suppliers just put this in their own box. The ability to use one sensor or another depends on the current sense resistor on the board design and whether a controller is using the cal resistor and has all cal values pre-programmed in the unit OR does a free air calibration procedure, which periodically needs to be repeated due to sensor aging, which requires the pump cell curves for various sensors to be pre-programmed in the unit. The Hydra chooses the free air calibration method and appears to be designed around the 4mA sensor. If you use the 3mA sensor, the calibration curve is NOT identical to the 4ma calibration curve. Depending on the current sense resistor Hydra chose, the 3mA sensor may or may not be able to reach a free air calibration point. If it does, the result will be misleading because the non-linear pump cell amperage curve will most likely result in an increasing offset towards lower lambda values. These sensors determine Lambda by evaluating the current passing across the pump cell circuit in a relatively elaborate control circuit where the measurement cell is kept at a constant .45v and the heater circuit is modulated to maintain temperature. These sensors are temperature and pressure dependent so different installation locations may have different results. To make this shorter and simpler, even if a 3mA sensor passes calibration, the values may be wrong. The difference will be most severe towards lower (richer) lambda values. I recommend you only use the 4mA sensor which is typically $250 or higher in all variations. To clarify further, it appears that all Hydra revisions use the 4mA version so it doesn't matter if you are running version 2.x or 2.y, you need the 4mA pump cell sensor type. Personally, I have the Hydra sensor installed in the post-turbo location on my MSM. I have an NGK Powerdex AFX (about the same price as a Hydra sensor) installed which has a sensor located in an FM pipe just before the CAT. This sensor location is too far back and straight vertical which results in some issues. The Powerdex AFX can use the 3mA pump cell sensor or a Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor, both of which are less expensive. A better install location would be a few inches from the turbo outlet in the downpipe slightly off vertical such that condensate can drain off the sensor rather than collecting on it's tip as happens in a vertical installation. |
Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 389896)
I'm stilll curious about that super cheap one I linked to. it had the right honda P/N...
Interesting that GV Autosport and a few other websites with the correct Honda PN (incorrectly applied) stole a description I wrote for the 24302 verbatim before correcting some of the information from ~2008.
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger
(Post 394084)
So for public record.. YES, the Bosch/NTK 13246 DOES wirk with Hydra 2.15
http://www.bmotorsports.com/2009/12/...dation-charts/ |
Great info, vtjballeng. Thanks very much.
How did you come to know these intimate details? |
Originally Posted by schmoo
(Post 747969)
Great info, vtjballeng. Thanks very much.
How did you come to know these intimate details? At my company, I sell and deal with these sensors daily. We also do engineering & design work around these sensor and automotive/industrial/agricultural/military controls work. |
Sorry to bump this again.... but here we go.
I've got a dead wideband, using Hydra 2.5. I just want to clarify before i go on my goose chase, that Bosch 15401 IS a correct sensor that will calibrate and read correctly with the Hydra. I guess ergo... that it IS a 4ma sensor. Thanks in advance! Also: Anyone have the part number for the Hydra proprietary replacement? |
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 770383)
Sorry to bump this again.... but here we go.
I've got a dead wideband, using Hydra 2.5. I just want to clarify before i go on my goose chase, that Bosch 15401 IS a correct sensor that will calibrate and read correctly with the Hydra. I guess ergo... that it IS a 4ma sensor. Thanks in advance! Also: Anyone have the part number for the Hydra proprietary replacement? NTK 24300 or Bosch 13246 is a 4ma sensor per my prior post. There is no NTK/Bosch pn for the Hydra proprietary version as they just take an NTK sensor and put their connector in it. My Hydra came with a 5 way Delphi Metripack connector but the older ones came with Weatherpack connectors. |
Originally Posted by vtjballeng
(Post 770405)
Bosch 15401 is NOT the correct sensor and is NOT a 4ma sensor.
NTK 24300 or Bosch 13246 is a 4ma sensor per my prior post. There is no NTK/Bosch pn for the Hydra proprietary version as they just take an NTK sensor and put their connector in it. My Hydra came with a 5 way Delphi Metripack connector but the older ones came with Weatherpack connectors. Is there a Hydra part number for their proprietary beast? I don't see anything listed on FM's website for it. :( Hrmmm.... $205 shipped for NTK 24300. :) Not too shabby! |
Here is everything I've learned while researching the Wideband Oxygen Sensor (WBO2) for the Hydra Nemesis ECU, firmware versions 2.5 - 2.7:
FM sells a replacement oxygen sensor for the Hydra for $250. They sell a cheaper sensor but it's for a different AFR meter and is not compatible with the Hydra. They also sell a sensor with a Hydra "unlock code" for Long Term Trim on the Hydra Nemesis 2.7 firmware for a total cost of $450. So I called NGK/NTK Tech Support and gave them the following information: The Flyin' Miata sensor has the following stamped on the body: "LHA:LZA08-H4 NTK JAPAN 6YN6" (the last part is just the manufacturing lot code stamped on the nut). The end of the sensor is a metal can with one hole in the end, and six holes around the circumference. It is a 5-wire sensor with a 6-pin WeatherPack WPT-6 connector which says "2 P.E.D." on the side. The pin-out is: A = gray (VS reference +) B = white (IP power +) C = yellow (heater ground -) D = black (IP & VS cell ground -) E = blue (heater power +) F = no connection (I looked inside the connector body and there are no jumpers.) NGK/NTK Tech Support looked it up in their files, and told me: -------------------------------------------------------------- * This sensor is a NTK stock # 24302 and has a 136ms response time, which is one of the fastest-response units they make. * The only 'catch' is that in some cases the reseller (Flyin' Miata, in this case) add their own custom connector or jumper, then charge an additional fee for the sensor. This sensor comes from the factory with a connector designed for most Honda / Acura V6 VTEC SOHC engines (3.0 - 3.5L made from 2003-2008). * This unit is available from most car-parts stores for about $180, but might be special order. (In fact, I called NAPA and they had one in a local warehouse, and got it to me the same day for $150 + tax.) * 5-wire sensors are designed for maximum accuracy and response times, compared to cheaper 4-wire sensors. They are often labeled "laboratory grade". * Some 5-wire sensors don't require a free-air calibration because they have some method of auto-calibrating. This sensor is not that fancy; it DOES require a free-air calibration. NTK recommends a minimum of 30-45 minutes of free-air calibration, but longer calibration time is better. * NTK owns exclusive rights to 5-wire oxygen sensors, but only manufactures about 40% of them, and they contract with Bosch and others to make the rest. (Later I called Bosch tech support and found that their equivalent part number is Bosch 15401.) * Each sensor model includes a custom ASIC chip to give it proprietary calibration values, so it is not possible to simply swap out a sensor with a sensor from another brand. There are no cross-reference tables like there are for spark plugs. * Using the wrong sensor can actually fry your ECU. Don't make a very expensive mistake! * Leaded fuel (some types of racing fuel) will kill the sensor. * Running rich (like under WOT) can shorten sensor life. * This particular sensor was designed for GM engines. Although it might last 100,000 miles for that use, two years and 25,000 miles isn't unusual for an aftermarket turbo kit. * NTK also sells a PowerDex AFX wideband monitoring and datalogging kit for $280, for people who don't have a Hydra ECU (or similar). * Be cautious about buying sensors online; even if you get exactly the part you expected, warranty service is provided through the reseller, not through NGK/NTK. So you might be out of luck if you have any problems with the sensor. * Regarding the life of the sensor: NGK/NTK Tech Support said it's hard to say how long these sensors will last; in a OEM application they might last 100,000 miles; but my experience of two years and 25,000 miles seems about right for an aftermarket setup. Several turbo-Miata Hydra owners have told me of similar experiences. * No NOT use the 24300, it is NOT the same, the internal circuitry is very different. Also, here are some questions I asked, along with NTK's response: ----------------------------------------------------------------- Q: What does the "-H4" on the part number mean? I ask because I see that your stock # 24302 crosses to an LZA-08-H6 at this website: http://www.oxygensensor.net/ntk_o2/24302.php A: The -H4 not critical; it's a code stamped for OEM applications (in this case Honda and GM) that tell you the harness length and connector style. (So an -H6 or -HE4 or -HA4 suffix should still use the same sensor body.) The exact definition of the -H4 would need to be answered by a OEM O2 engineer back in the office in Michigan. Most people on the aftermarket are not worried about things like this as they are replacing OEM parts with OEM parts. Q: I've read some discussions in the forums about whether Hydra needs a sensor with a 3mA or 4mA pump cell. What's the difference, and will the wrong one damage my Hydra or just not sense correctly? A: The current rating of the pumping cell is directly correlated to the stamping number on the sensor. There is no need to worry about the pumping cell in the sensor body, if the stamping number directly matches our number there is no reason to worry about the amperage of the pumping cell. Q: I thought you said that Bosch and NTK sensors were made differently and wouldn't cross-reference each other, but the OxygenSensor.net website above says they do. What's going on? A: NTK and other competitors patent 5 wire sensors, this one may have close similarities, or may actually be the same as one of our sensors as we used this variant in our wideband logging system and supplied the Bosch early in the sale, and switched to supplying the NTK. I would be curious to know where oxygensensor.net got their information. We get ours from our engineering department and this is done in the engineering process with many OEM suppliers, this is the most accurate data you will ever get. The bottom line here is that if the stamping number directly crosses then it’s the same sensor body and internal construction. At this point we just need to verify the wiring on the connector. Q: You said that each sensor model includes a custom ASIC chip to give it proprietary calibration values, so it is not possible to simply swap out a sensor with a sensor from another brand. There are no cross-reference tables like there are for spark plugs. Is that correct? A: Yes, the Asic chip is preprogrammed with the calibration values. NGK Spark Plugs ( USA) Inc. Aftermarket Division 46929 Magellan Drive Wixom, MI 48393 I found this tidbit on the NTK website's FAQ's: "Most [oxygen] sensors slowly degrade in performance and send a false rich signal to the ECU, running the engine too lean." That would sure match my symptoms of light pinging under moderate- to heavy-acceleration between 2200-2900 RPM. It turns out that if you do a Google search for "ntk 24302 hydra" you'll find several threads about replacing the FM sensor with this one. They talk about putting a new connector on the cable from the Hydra, so swapping out sensors becomes an easy plug-n-play solution. Some other possibly useful pages are below, although the information provided is possibly old or inaccurate: http://boschautoparts.com/FAQs/Pages...Oxygen+Sensors http://www.mazda-speed.com/forum2/in...c,19513.0.html http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/wbntk.htm http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=239491 (Look for klatinn's post near the bottom.) I've seen some claims that others have successfully used an $80 sensor; that doesn't mean it's accurate or fast enough for all conditions, but maybe it's good enough for most situations. I don't really know. John Dollison '99 Mazda Miata FM-II turbo kit with Hydra Nemesis ECU ver. 2.6. |
John,
Good work researching these issues. There are some issues here which are a little confusing in my view. I am not going to comment on everything but only choose to comment on a few points.
Originally Posted by John Dollison
(Post 793921)
* 5-wire sensors are designed for maximum accuracy and response times, compared to cheaper 4-wire sensors. They are often labeled "laboratory grade".
Originally Posted by John Dollison
(Post 793921)
* Some 5-wire sensors don't require a free-air calibration because they have some method of auto-calibrating. This sensor is not that fancy; it DOES require a free-air calibration. NTK recommends a minimum of 30-45 minutes of free-air calibration, but longer calibration time is better.
Originally Posted by John Dollison
(Post 793921)
* Each sensor model includes a custom ASIC chip to give it proprietary calibration values, so it is not possible to simply swap out a sensor with a sensor from another brand. There are no cross-reference tables like there are for spark plugs.
Originally Posted by John Dollison
(Post 793921)
* Using the wrong sensor can actually fry your ECU. Don't make a very expensive mistake!
Originally Posted by John Dollison
(Post 793921)
* Leaded fuel (some types of racing fuel) will kill the sensor.
* Running rich (like under WOT) can shorten sensor life.
Originally Posted by John Dollison
(Post 793921)
* NTK also sells a PowerDex AFX wideband monitoring and datalogging kit for $280, for people who don't have a Hydra ECU (or similar).
Originally Posted by John Dollison
(Post 793921)
* Be cautious about buying sensors online; even if you get exactly the part you expected, warranty service is provided through the reseller, not through NGK/NTK. So you might be out of luck if you have any problems with the sensor.
Originally Posted by John Dollison
(Post 793921)
* No NOT use the 24300, it is NOT the same, the internal circuitry is very different.
Q: I've read some discussions in the forums about whether Hydra needs a sensor with a 3mA or 4mA pump cell. What's the difference, and will the wrong one damage my Hydra or just not sense correctly? A: The current rating of the pumping cell is directly correlated to the stamping number on the sensor. There is no need to worry about the pumping cell in the sensor body, if the stamping number directly matches our number there is no reason to worry about the amperage of the pumping cell. So now the question is, where did your LZA08 sensor come from and how did it make it in the mix here? When did you purchase this sensor? Is Hydra now shipping with the 24302 sensor indicating a hardware and/or firmware change? Is FM mixing stock, thinking they can modify the 24302 sensors to work on 24300 applications? Has anyone else received a new Hydra with a sensor stamped with LZA08? Most systems using the 24300 cannot also drive the 24302 where many systems using the 24302 can also drive the 24300. |
I have a hydra 2.5 that I bought many years ago and the WBO2 that came with it is the NTK LZA08-H4 which based upon the above is the 24302. Clearly my Hydra was purchased before vtjballeng's (which it is indicated was purchased earlier this year) thus maybe the Hydra 2.6/2.7 are using a different WBO2? Or perhaps Hydra and/or FM actually are mixing up stock?
This for sale thread is also interesting, since it is a Hydra 2.6 WBO2 from FM that doesn't even have the proper connector: https://www.miataturbo.net/miata-parts-sale-trade-5/hydra-2-6-wb02-sensor-brand-new-61919/ That is odd. |
This is probably unrelated but this guy had his WBO2 die after upgrading from 2.5 to 2.6: https://www.miataturbo.net/showpost....79&postcount=2
It was claimed to be a defective part in the 2.6 upgrade. But in the interest of creating a conspiracy out of nothing, maybe they did change their WBO2 circuitry and thus the WBO2 that is supported? |
Originally Posted by VanMSM
(Post 806779)
I have a hydra 2.5 that I bought many years ago and the WBO2 that came with it is the NTK LZA08-H4 which based upon the above is the 24302. Clearly my Hydra was purchased before vtjballeng's (which it is indicated was purchased earlier this year) thus maybe the Hydra 2.6/2.7 are using a different WBO2? Or perhaps Hydra and/or FM actually are mixing up stock?
This for sale thread is also interesting, since it is a Hydra 2.6 WBO2 from FM that doesn't even have the proper connector: https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=61919 That is odd. |
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