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Old 03-20-2009, 01:27 PM   #1
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Default 2nd American Revolution

If this won't fire you up....

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Old 03-20-2009, 02:28 PM   #2
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so voting for the people in congress isn't good enough, it's better to send them tea?

he's got a lot of fascist ideas there. mandatory service?

yes congress should read bills. i agree.

but there would be conflicts of interest if they were responsible for legislating things that affect them directly--similar to their salary increases. but who thinks congress is overpaid? 174k isn't a shitload for someone who can't live a normal life. and it's less than 500 people.

term limits are pointless. better to have someone new that sucks *** than to keep someone who is actually effective? we get votes. vote against someone who is in office. that's a term limit!
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:35 PM   #3
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I have no issues with mandatory service, and I like your idea of voting against people in office as a term limit.
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Old 03-20-2009, 02:48 PM   #4
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I don't have a problem with mandatory service either. Everyone can serve the country one way or another.

The downside, a volunteer army will be better disciplined and more apt to fight for wha they believe in than a forced Army.

Ask the Romans soldiers of the early republic vs the Roman solders of the 2nd-5th century.

As for the salaries. Most of these people were well off prior to getting into congress. Their perks dwarf the 174k salary. I think they make too much. What does a 4 Star General make? The Admiral of the Navy? IMO, what they have to do and command is far greater than those goofballs in congress.
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Old 03-20-2009, 03:43 PM   #5
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yeah but the admirals want for nothing. they are military men. give them a sweet barracks and a HMMWV with a snorkel and they're happy. ok maybe not but still.

russia does mandatory service.

i'd enlist if i thought it would get me back into (physical) shape.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:04 PM   #6
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The downside, a volunteer army will be better disciplined and more apt to fight for wha they believe in than a forced Army.
Is this fact or are you assuming?

From what I have seen browsing MANY forums in the last 10 years, the majority of people that go to the military have nothing else left and its their last ditch effort. Then theirs the one percent of forum people who I spoke to that go because they have ***** of ******* steal and want to kill for their country. So no, the volunteer army is not a good idea in my mind. What should be done is a mandatory service pending proper physical, psychological, intellectual analysis. Sure it increases the chances of total retards being left alive that couldnt make the cut, but it will make for a much better army.

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russia does mandatory service.

i'd enlist if i thought it would get me back into (physical) shape.
Israel has mandatory service too, and its probably the best military on the planet. Best pilots, best soldiers and they do more with less. Ever hear of Krav Maga?

You cant enlist if you cant pass the physical tests, so uh yea, the army wont be your person weight loss adviser.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:19 PM   #7
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You cant enlist if you cant pass the physical tests, so uh yea, the army wont be your person weight loss adviser.
lol. If you've ever met y8s.

You'd realize how much of a douche you are.


I'm not against mandatory service of some kind. Military, Community Service types, etc. It is a good idea.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:26 PM   #8
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lol. If you've ever met y8s.

You'd realize how much of a douche you are.


I'm not against mandatory service of some kind. Military, Community Service types, etc. It is a good idea.
I dont have to meet y8s, im just making a statement.

Ill run circles around y8s.
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Old 03-20-2009, 04:52 PM   #9
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I can sprint but i sure as **** cant run long distances. I mean COULD sprint.

I'm 6', 195lb. I'm not fat or really unhealthy, just a few years out of shape. the military structure for the workout is what I was after mostly. I guess I will go self-induced. It's my next "project" after this kitchen is done.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Is this fact or are you assuming?

From what I have seen browsing MANY forums in the last 10 years, the majority of people that go to the military have nothing else left and its their last ditch effort. Then theirs the one percent of forum people who I spoke to that go because they have ***** of ******* steal and want to kill for their country. So no, the volunteer army is not a good idea in my mind. What should be done is a mandatory service pending proper physical, psychological, intellectual analysis. Sure it increases the chances of total retards being left alive that couldnt make the cut, but it will make for a much better army.



Israel has mandatory service too, and its probably the best military on the planet. Best pilots, best soldiers and they do more with less. Ever hear of Krav Maga?

You cant enlist if you cant pass the physical tests, so uh yea, the army wont be your person weight loss adviser.

I am basing that on history. Lebanon had a mandatory service, and a friend of mine served in the Lebanese army in the 80's. He had an inside view of what goes on and the feelings from inside a mandatory army. Now they are strictly a volunteer army. There are pros and cons to both, I like mandatory, but I don't think it is a better army.

Israel's armed forces are really good, no doubt. However, Israeli soldiers also know that Israel means business when it starts an offensive. That type of mantra filters down through the rank and file. Sometimes, I wish our boys could be let loose to do some real damage and get the job done asap. Our military is the best in world. I wish I had joined when I was younger.
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Old 03-20-2009, 05:35 PM   #11
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I don't think the crux of the video was about mandatory military service.
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Old 03-20-2009, 06:36 PM   #12
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i was able to make it 1/4 though the video before my brain stopped listening. politics....
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Old 03-20-2009, 08:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Is this fact or are you assuming?

From what I have seen browsing MANY forums in the last 10 years, the majority of people that go to the military have nothing else left and its their last ditch effort. Then theirs the one percent of forum people who I spoke to that go because they have ***** of ******* steal and want to kill for their country. So no, the volunteer army is not a good idea in my mind. What should be done is a mandatory service pending proper physical, psychological, intellectual analysis. Sure it increases the chances of total retards being left alive that couldnt make the cut, but it will make for a much better army.

You cant enlist if you cant pass the physical tests, so uh yea, the army wont be your person weight loss adviser.
From your vast military experience, experience you gathered from surfing forums, eh?

The majority of people I have served with are in for idealogical reasons. Sure, the perks can be good, and the job security is nice, but would I want to be surrounded by guys who were forced to enlist? Hell no. And the scenario you're proposing could potentially cause a "brain drain", wherein smart people leave the country for fear of serving.

About the PT though, all you have to do to get into the Army (for a male) is 13 pushups, an equally laughable amount of situps, and run 1 mile in less than ~8:30. Not difficult. Once you're in, they'll get you into the shape you need to be in to pass the PT test (2 minutes pushups & situps, 2 mile run). y8s meets or exceeds the height and weight standards for receptees, and likely meets the Army standard as well. So he could still join if he so chose. I thought I couldn't run long distances before I joined, but I ran the 2 mile under 16:36 (the standard for my age) with my recruiter before joining. Now that I'm in, we run twice a week out here, and we had our short run today, about 4 miles.
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Old 03-20-2009, 10:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Is this fact or are you assuming?

From what I have seen browsing MANY forums in the last 10 years, the majority of people that go to the military have nothing else left and its their last ditch effort. Then theirs the one percent of forum people who I spoke to that go because they have ***** of ******* steal and want to kill for their country. So no, the volunteer army is not a good idea in my mind. What should be done is a mandatory service pending proper physical, psychological, intellectual analysis. Sure it increases the chances of total retards being left alive that couldnt make the cut, but it will make for a much better army.

Israel has mandatory service too, and its probably the best military on the planet. Best pilots, best soldiers and they do more with less. Ever hear of Krav Maga?

Sam -

Are you speaking from personal experience or just what you've read?

True, there is a portion of the US Military population that attempts to use the service as "a last ditch effort". - Some make it through a single enlistment, many see the value in serving their country and make it a career, and then there are the (few) rejects that don't cut it and are drummed out of the service (if not jailed for some hair-brained activity).

Yes, there are some misguided Rambo-wannabes that join the service solely to live their machismo fantasies. They are frequently identified and mentored before they wind up getting one of our own injured or killed.

However, a majority of those serving are doing so voluntarily due to a willingness to put the society's needs above their own, having a sense of duty toward the Nation. - Most are highly motivated, intelligent, capable and enjoy the comraderie few outside the Military will ever find.

As to the high regard in which the Israeli Military is held, it is due to the strong sense of community and societal investment ALL Israeli citizens have for their country. - You must contribute if you want to enjoy the perks of citizenship and the protection of the Nation.

Having spent a career in the Military, I don't want to see a conscripted force. It introduces too many problems. Unfortunately, too many people see the phrase, "mandatory service" and equate it to service in the Military. - I don't see that as the *only* means to serve the Nation. Spend time in the Peace Corps, the Corps of Engineers, Civil Service or the Military; it doesn't matter as long as you spend significant time serving more than just yourself!

One of the major problems with the Nation is the self-absorbed, privileged, me-first-me-only mentality pervasive in today's society. It is past time people started thinking about more than just themselves...
- L

PS - Learn your synonyms and how to differentiate their uses.

Last edited by l_bader; 03-21-2009 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 03-20-2009, 11:57 PM   #15
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Comparative advantage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is purely in response to the stream of american jobs bullshit.

Rest was just seen. This man doesn't look at what he is really talking about. Namely the illegal immigrant stuff, don't get me started. Let me just say, it is a foolish distraction.

The bailouts/stimulus plans. The people who really should be freaking out are the lefters in this. When time comes to to pay back this extensive debt, you will see both tax hikes and massive cuts to federal spending (aka a slowing/restructuring of the welfare state). We will end up having to pay for this in the end. 9 trillion to pay off by 2019. Woo woo

I've yet to see something that really has gotten me truly rilled up yet enough for a revolution. Trust me, when I see fit and the time has come that our govt has truly not served its means, I will be first in line to change power.

Last edited by naarleven; 03-21-2009 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 03-21-2009, 01:49 AM   #16
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Very well put, l_bader.

Quote:
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Yes, there are some misguided Rambo-wannabes that join the service solely to live their machismo fantasies.
I believe those are called "Marines".
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
so voting for the people in congress isn't good enough, it's better to send them tea?

he's got a lot of fascist ideas there. mandatory service?

yes congress should read bills. i agree.

but there would be conflicts of interest if they were responsible for legislating things that affect them directly--similar to their salary increases. but who thinks congress is overpaid? 174k isn't a shitload for someone who can't live a normal life. and it's less than 500 people.

term limits are pointless. better to have someone new that sucks *** than to keep someone who is actually effective? we get votes. vote against someone who is in office. that's a term limit!
What? So re-voting someone back into the office they once possessed is a hassle for you? I'd rather a mandatory term limit than having to rely on our citizens to bring up the issue of removing someone from office.

Maybe mandatory military service will keep our politicians from throwing our kids' lives away. I'm no fan of the military, but I'm sure if we all had a taste of war, we'd shy away from it much more easily.
However, this suggests that the military is all volunteer at this present time. Unfortunately, it is and it is not.
We have recruiters being sent into historically poor schools/areas to seek those whom lack the information to make a "volunteer" decision. Unfortunately, people join as a last ditch effort, because they feel they have no choice (whether they do or not doesn't matter, life is all perception).
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Old 03-21-2009, 02:42 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by l_bader View Post

One of the major problems with the Nation is the self-absorbed, privileged, me-first-me-only mentality persasive in today's society. It is past time people started thinking about more than just themselves...
It's time we looked at how we are educating our kids.

We celebrate this quality in life, and try to make sure its ingrained in our kids' minds.

We're even allowing this society to perpetuate itself, and who cares? A severe minority.

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Old 03-21-2009, 02:59 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l_bader

One of the major problems with the Nation is the self-absorbed, privileged, me-first-me-only mentality persasive in today's society. It is past time people started thinking about more than just themselves...
Side effect of a society promoting individualism, entrepenuerial spirit, and capitalism.


p.s. you guys should actually speak to people who come from a country with mandatory conscription. I had a big talk with a bunch of Israeli kids I had met.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7952603.stm
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Old 03-21-2009, 03:05 AM   #20
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Sometimes, I wish our boys could be let loose to do some real damage and get the job done asap.
Amen.

I have a stockpile of ammo, how about you guys? I also have bottled water and food rations to last at least a few years. Paranoid? I hope so, but its not looking good right now. I should grow enough in my garden this year to last my the next few years if canned, that is if the low lives that live in the apartments up the street don't sneak into my garden and steal my **** like last summer...

Also, war is messy, **** happens. I hate seeing any countries troops bashed when a few innocent people get killed. Back seat drivers **** me off. I love how so many anti war people have never served, and have such crazy ideas about war.
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