4dr sedan... the wife demands a manual!
 

If all goes to plan, I'm leaving this island towards the end of May for NOVA. Family will follow in July after I have accommodations and transportation squared away

Wife was flat in love with her MS6. it was perfect. 275hp, AWD, interior designed by the lord himself, very roomy, tons of visibility, big trunk, decent aftermarket support, Mazda parts-bin perfection, zoom-zoom... I bought a bigger intercooler and straight-pipe for the second cat... things that would normally "improve" reliability... I blew it up, not unlike thousands of other MZR owners. The motor is a known timebomb, it's well known, they ALL blow up sooner or later. Whether Speed3 or Speed6... the stock engine management and fuel system is shit. AWD only increases stress and complication. The only way the motors survive is to put them in a mid-size FWD suv like the CX7 and detune them. I challenge you to find me a MS6 with more than 100k that isn't a complete and utter piece of shit with a 7 owner history. Mazda could not have done worse.

SO... have looked at the lists of new sedans available with a manual... or manuel if you live in Texas... all options suck in some way or another, and the options are slim. Current 0% financing for 78mo from dealerships have me considering new cars.

Genesis G70... nope
Mazda3... FWD and slow
Honda Civic... FWD and looks like a millenial cream dream
Jag F-Type... NFW
Honda Accord... actually, if AWD and 50hp more and didn't suck
WRX... don't even start
Caddy ATS-V... piece of shit
Jetta.. FWD and VW's are so fucking weird

SO... what do I do? I want another MS6. The wife would be perfectly happy with another one. I'd need to dump $1k into upgraded fuel system parts and another $1k into an aftermarket piggyback or standalone to run the thing IF I COULD FIND one that wasn't complete shit to begin with.

Honestly... a 4dr Mustang with a V6 Ecoboost, 6-spd, and a "cool wife package" with just enough nanny electronics so she couldn't wreck it, but skip the "rain-sensing wipers" and parallel parking robot function. Basically a modern version of the BMW 540i manual... fast as shit, but mid-level and simple.

What the fuck, over?

Welcome to 2020. Based on the above post, you have 30 years worth of automotive evolution catching up to do. Only like 2% of modern cars actually use piggy backs or standalones anymore, and there's tons of options now all of which are better than the ms6.

I'll expand on this...........in a few years :P

I also had an MS6 and loved it. Only sold it because the wife hurt her foot and couldn't drive for two weeks (all our cars were manual at that point). I don't know if you are aware but there is a Mazdaspeed parts/cars for sale page on Facebook. I recently joined so I can finally sell the parts I have sitting around. Just saw a one owner Whitewater Pearl MS6 for sale on there the other day that was stock and proclaimed no rust. It was located on the east coast, IIRC not far from Virginia.

Caddy is a pice of shit. LMAO. Okay sure.

Get a Miata

Chevy SS?

You're right about buying new. Dealers are DESPERATE to move inventory. I'm really thinking about picking up an MX-5 . . . but I just don't need another car . . . (need? WTF am I saying?).

Getting a manual in a new car is a tall order. Curious what you end up with.

Chevy SS isn't a bad idea. I've got a G8, and it is hands-down the most reliable car I've ever owned. It's just so heavy duty. Have 130K on it now, and all I've ever done is oil changes. The Aussies designed a great chassis (also used on the Camaro) and the LS is friggin' great. It's a big car, but it "drives" small. I think the Pontiac is more attractive than the Chevy version though.

Can confirm SS is great. VF & VE platform are both solid. Build quality isn't Merc or BMW. Though they stopped making them in 2017, so you're not buying one new. Manual tax on an SS is kinda high too.

I really liked our G8... but no manual (except for GXP). The interior of the SS is a huge improvement over the G8.

Curious as to why the G70/Stinger are a no go? They're a really good value...

I'm partial to the Acura TL SH-AWD 6 speed.
They are rare but usually not owned and modded by young people.
305 HP.
Normal mode 90% front 10% rear
Max acceleration 30% front 70% rear.
VTEC on both intake and exhaust.
NO variable cylinder management
Funny looking front end...
I think that last 6 speeds were 2014

I think for brand new 6-speed manual sedans you got them all. Slim pickings.

I'd find a used SS.

I was going to mention the TL too, hard to find but decent choice. If you want 450hp with some bolt one, you could look into an n55 powered 335x. Although a manual might be difficult to find.

you might go try a manual civic, I just bought a 2020 hatch, managed 39mpg last tank, and they’re surprisingly quick. I test drove about a dozen ~180hp cars and this one felt more like 200-220. Not earth shattering, but it’s a tune and bolt ons away from another 100hp.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ckType=listing

There are 5 of them for sale listed on autotrader. They're roughly 10k above the auto cars. There is another orange one for sale in Texas with just less than 50k for 35000. Not a bad price. No pictures though.

They are both very rare, but two options I would love to own: Subaru Legacy Spec B or an Acura TL Type-S manual.
You could also have a looks at a manual Cadillac CTS-V.

Former Gen2 MS3 owner here. Current M235i owner. And my day job is vehicle dynamics evaluation for a major OEM.

The MZR is definitely a super fun powerplant, and the Mazda ride/handling balance is unique in cars at that price point. I moved on from the MS3 to an N55 M235i 6spd. The way I described the difference in platforms and tuning is Mazda wanted to make the owner feel like the engine was a caged animal that was barely contained in chassis that housed it (not entirely untrue...). The 235 feels so much more controlled, and is faster without all of the added drama. It's easy to feel the additional stiffness of the chassis over bumps because there's so much less vibration passed end-to-end through the cabin. The longer gears and extra traction under acceleration inherent from the FR layout give way more confidence, but definitely reduce the excitement and fun factor.

All of that said, one of the best and most surprising cars I've driven in the last few years is indeed the Civic with the 1.5T that others have recommended. We benchmarked a CVT model, and the engine never feels lacking. The ride and NVH feel like a much more expensive car than the price point. It's definitely worth a test drive, if the cabin space meets your needs.

ETA: The base 1.5T is apparently very tunable, and the Si is also an option in sedan/hatch form.

Focus ST intake manifold and port injection to keep the valves clean, 2.5 block, and FMIC. Bewm, mostly reliable. Or just make sure to walnut blast the intake valves every 100k-ish. (note: brother got a speed3 recently - blew up 206 miles of ownership, carbon lodged in the exhaust valve and burnt it. So timing belt + vvt + valve job, now it just drinks oil - 2.5 swap in the future after we clear a couple other projects). There is also LibreTuner which is an opensource tuning software for it, the lead has a MS6 and he's slowly adding MS3 support (I'm trying to help but time + other projects).

I just found a couple Speed6 specific FB pages... did not know those existed. Might come in handy.

Definitely gonna buy used. New, no matter what, is just too damned expensive. SS's are still too new and expensive.

No, no, no.

Dat ass...
https://winstonsalem.craigslist.org/...111041094.html

Manual 335 is on the short list...

Not sure if I was just looking to bitch, or for validation, or to kill time during COVID. Decided I'm on the hunt for a white Speed6 w/leather and zero rust... preferably one that had the fuel pump internals done very early in it's life, otherwise that's item #1. That Facebook part-out page is gonna make it very easy to pick up used performance parts on the cheap.

From the FB Mazdaspeed parts/cars for sale group:

"Daniel Solorzano

April 24 at 9:17 AMPLEASE READ FULL DESCRIPTION!!

I have for sale my 2006 Mazdaspeed 6. For those who aren’t familiar with the platform this is the turbo edition. It is not your average Mazda 6. This is a well taken care of Speed6. No rust. Clean title. 1 owner. I am in no rush to sell so don’t even bother trying to lowball. It is even harder to find bone stock mazdaspeed 6 now a days. Especially being in white. And if you do find one they are typically blown up, have rust or have issues with them. They are awd and make 274 hp from factory. It is a 6 speed.

129xxx miles

If you have any questions feel free to ask. I’m open to offers as well. But again don’t lowball me or I will ignore you. If you don’t like my price then move along if you aren’t interested."


It's a GT so has the black leather interior you are looking for. If you decide to go this route I have a number of bolt ons for the car I have been sitting on (TMIC, HPFP internals etc).

He says it's a GT, but it's not... cloth interior and no sunroof. Otherwise that's a solid candidate... he's about $2k high on price, but I understand why somebody might think a bone-stock one at 129k is worth it. Looking further into the history of that FB page does not give me hope for the long-term survival of the model. I think the final count was just over 5000 produced.

Something like this maybe?

Sorry, I just glanced at the ad when I first saw it so I missed that. I try not to look to hard on that group because I will just start yearning to get another one.

https://richmond.craigslist.org/cto/...112405401.html

What do I need to know about the F10 chassis and N55 motor? Apparently 350whp and 400ftlbs is just a matter of an intake and an Accessport?

N55... valve cover gasket, VANOS solenoid, HPFP, water pump, oil filter housing gasket... will all fail at some point... repairs pretty straight-forward.
Oil pan gasket potential... requires front subframe removal... $1500.

Have you ever had to physically work on a BMW?

Every repair I've ever had to do that wasn't basic required a tremendous amount of time and effort.

As someone who owns 4 modern-ish bmws, ya that sounds about right. The fixes are usually DIY doable, just make sure you have a good source on parts so you dont go broke

The "F" series bmws are generally soft. Newer yes, but the steering/chassis really does feel like shit compared to the older ones.

N55 is a pretty good motor; other than the bolt on parts that fail the rod bearings have been known to go. Just use good oil and don't do it every 12k.

The shop I work at does a huge number of BMWs, and we haven't seen the bearing issues the same as the older S motors. But if there's an upgrade available for BMW rod bearings, it's generally not a bad idea.

The F chassis is a step down from the e90s in my opinion, but still a good car. I think the e90 was just too expensive to build, lasted too long. Doesn't benefit them to make it like that.

I run a automotive AC shop that does other work as well.
My late model German car customers have the largest bills.
If you remove the valve cover you should replace it (integral PCV valve). $500.00 for part.
Direct injection will cause early intake valve failures (on everything). Mercedes and Ford have added additional port injectors to stop this crap. Everyone else will follow.
I advise my customers to be OUT of the cars before 10 years/150K miles.
Best way to own a late model BMW is to lease a brand new one every 3-5 years. It's what BMW wants.
All service HAS to be done at Dealership for first 50K (or warranty void) and the service is free but oil change intervals are 17K miles. This reduces BMW's "nut" to 2 oil changes before 50K and pre-conditions the engine to early failure.
BMW states the transmission oil is "lifetime". They want the car in the junkyard by 150K...
Only semi inexpensive way to own one of these is to be able to do ALL of the work yourself which you might be able to do.
Parts average 3 times the cost of Japanese stuff.
I DO NOT suggest 100K BMWs to anyone.
BMW got "Bangle-ized" in early 2000s and it killed the cars.
Most have SRS explosives on the negative battery cable which causes no-starts when it fails.
Have you ever purchased a $500.00 battery cable? You might get too. If you just replace with normal it freaks the car out and you have dash full of warning lights.
Clutches will take 2K worth of parts before labor. You can buy twin disc stuff for a Miata for this amount.
If you go single mass flywheel the NVH will go way up.
Any aluminum bolt you remove from the magnesium block has to be replaced as it WILL break if reused.
The bolts are not expensive but if you're 50 miles away from the dealership (I am) it's a PIA to get them.
The electric water pumps suck big time.
Cooling system life is 100K. Hoses can be $100 plus each and there are a bunch of them.
The cars got far too complicated after 2000. Sometimes you need to be an electrical engineer to figure out the electrical gremilins.
You have to "register" a new battery with the ECU as it charges old batteries differently than new. No body else does this...
Early BMWs (pre 2000) were sports cars. Later ones are luxury grand touring cars (think Bentley).
I am a BMW enthusiast. I own a 1998 E36 M3 (133K miles)
My parents own a 07 X3 and an 08 328ic and they are maintenance hogs. They average 2-5k miles a year on them and they are in the shop every 3 months.
Both cars have less than 80K on them.

Drive an Acura TL (a normal 2wd automatic will allow you to tell if you like it) before going German. You can't see the horrid styling once you're in it and it feels more "German" than "Japanese".
The TL (without VCM) has a 20 year 300k service life.

An old Mazdaspeed 6 is a far better choice (even with it's problems) than a late model Bimmer.
There are a couple of 100K mile ones on Autotrader that might be players.

Sorry for the long post, You and your wife are cool and deserve to hear the truth about late model German stuff before you purchase from someone who works on them...
Before I die I will own an E24 M6 and an E39 M5.
Early cars are way cool, late stuff is trash.

^Bro, seriously, you gotta stop beating around the bush... just tell the world what you think and don't sugar coat it.

What you're saying makes a ton of sense just in my couple hours of watching YT videos on how these things work. Plastic water pumps? Fuel pumps that fail internally... by the tens of thousands and they can't figure out a redesign? The leaky gaskets also kill me... same thing with Mercedes, I guess. But with a straight-6, you'd think there would be more room to work under there.

Looks like buying a used BMW, should just suck up a $2k bill right off the bat, and do all that shit at once and be done with it... all the seals, HPFP, bigger intercooler, hoses, BOV, charge pipe, etc... be done with it for 100k. Still, if the idea is engineered obsolescence, I'm not a fan. Too bad Toyota never made anything like what I'm looking for.

They kinda did.

Lexus IS250?

No idea what engine they had. But i'm pretty sure they were RWD and some were AWD.

Interesting, for some reason, Lexus and Infinity always escape me. Google'ing revealed older IS300's can be found with manuals as well, but not with AWD, and tougher to find unmolested than MS6's... looks like 2JZ swaps and severe ricing are very popular.

Toyotas are my first suggestion. Lexus, Scion and Toyota are the same beast.
Infinity is Nissan and I no longer recommend Nissan at all. Renault has destroyed them as a car builder.
I am a Z car fanatic (70-78) and have owned multiple early Zs
The Lexus RX350 once won the "most reliable car in production" award according to wiki. It is the ONLY luxury car to ever do so.
If the RX is too big or SUV like the Toyota version was called the Venza. Used Venzas are hard to find because the owners refuse to sell them.
Both are available in FWD or AWD but only automatics which live forever.
The Lexus IS platform at one time had the straight six with a manual RWD. I am not aware of a AWD. If you find a clean RWD manual it will double in value in the next 5 years. Wagons are the most valuable.
Same way with the SC300s that were manual. The SC300s had all the Supra stuff except the turbos and the hottest NA 6 cylinders.
I've recently seen a late model IS wagon that was hybrid and manual. It used Prius drive gear. The owner loved it, got 45+ mpg and had over 200K on it. It was FWD sadly.
Priuses are unbreakable.

Only problem with Toyota is they are boring....
Toyota mimics Mercedes and drives like them. Super comfortable isolation from the road. Never gets flustered or excited.
Throttles respond slowly. They don't make you want to drive them hard like a Miata or a M3 does.
They lack "soul". It's like driving a car that is on Quaaludes. They never "talk back" at you.

If all cars were as reliable as Toyotas there would be 50% fewer repair shops.
When I talk a customer into a Toyota I lose income.
They usually feed me their friends...

If she will live with simple manual that does not have to be AWD and it's going to be an "appliance" car, a daily, then look to a manual Accord.
Manual hurts the value of this car and you might find a good deal. They are semi-rare and seldom riced. If you get a V6 put a VCM muzzler on it to kill VCM (and the VCM cars do NOT have VTECH at all)
I like the 4 cyl K24 powered Accords best. They are the least expensive and the K24 is nearly un-breakable. No VCM, no timing belt, has VTEC, simple to work on, parts are CHEAP.
The SE models had the high end interior and gadgets on the 4cyl platform. Finding a SE manual might be difficult.
When she is done with it you can steal the engine for a Miata...
A manual Accord is much more "lively" than you might imagine. It also has a 300K+ life expectancy.

That AWD Acura TL I mentioned has a baby NSX motor in it.
It's a stroked V6 with killer heads and intake.
They had a style update in 12 that made them look a tiny bit better.
I want to swap that entire drivetrain into a 2nd Gen Odyssey minivan, reduce compression, add a couple of BW turbos, and go hunt new Vetts...
I'm waiting for a hail damaged one.
Yes, I have it BAD.

I have been told that I am "as diplomatic as a sawed off double barrel" before.

I've really enjoyed reading your threads about Hawaii and your posts in the gun threads.
Having a wife that says "manual only" is priceless.
Good luck in your search.
Rick

Thanks for the compliments and the thorough info. I should say that she definitely wants some power behind the gas pedal. She hasn't been a big fan of FWD since her 2000 Celica... she was keenly aware of the disadvantage of an open dif and FWD. We had the Speed6 for 10 years and 80k or so absurdly trouble-free miles until the engine blew... I saw it coming in the weeks previous to the incident, should have had it looked at, just plain dumb.

The IS300 ticks all the boxes but I just don't think is gonna be fast enough for her... the Speed6 had 60+ more hp and 100ftlbs more torque. The IS300 with a legit 2JZ-GTE that didn't look like an F&F poster sounds like what I would drive.

Local buddy here on base has an '05'ish V6 manual Accord sedan... I should go drive it.

I'm going to violate the rules of this discussion by posting something that doesn't fit your outline. I'm not sure how big your kids are but it does have back seats and I have been in one and I'm 6'1". 278hp, manual 6 speed, RWD. MWFSA (Make Wife Feel Sexy Again) https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=548713742&referrer= %2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3FsortBy%3Dderivedprice ASC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26market Extension%3Dinclude%26modelCodeList%3DA%26makeCode List%3D%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse&numRecords=25&firstR ecord=0&modelCodeList=A&makeCodeList=&clickType=sp otlight

or this

another even sexier choice

I've ridden with Ryan G from this forum in his daily driver and it is very quiet and comfortable. Just throwing it out there. Toyota drivetrain. And he has not spent much of anything on maintenance or repairs. He drove it 10 hours each way to Miatas at the Gap and flogged the piss out of it up there with no issues a year ago. He continues to drive it daily to work.

Six WINS hands down!
He found a Toyota that IS NOT boring.
His will hold its value forever and probably increase with time.
Only problem is price...
And you would have to fight her to get seat time.

I dunno what's "weird" about VWs, but a Jetta GLI fits the bill, although I don't personally know why one would choose the sedan over the hatch.

228hp, limited slip, 6 speed, sedan. Check check check.

The accord is a good option too, with the 2.0T. It doesn't "suck" as you say, and it's actually one of the best looking sedans on sale. 252hp and 273 lb ft of torque, tuneable for more.

You can buy a G6 in manual. 220hp v6 wrong wheel drive.
​​​​​That is, if you don't want to spend any money.

Another decent option is a Buick Regal GS. 4 cylinder turbo, 300+ HP. Wrong wheel drive and a Buick. But can be had for pretty cheap. I was going to buy one as a daily until I bought another boat.

please enlighten me about both those

Trust me, you don't want an IS300. I've owned every generation of IS, including the IS-F currently in my garage. IS300 is the worst of the bunch by a fair amount.
You can find an IS250 with a 6 speed, but those motors are DI and they suffer from carbon issues. Also, they're dogshit slow. The IS350 is a vastly different motor, much more reliable, but only available in auto.

Personally I'd take the way way back time machine and find the nicest first gen CTS-V you can afford. They're dead nuts simple to wrench on, just have a healthy consumable budget.

No Subies... it's for the wife, 45yrs old, and I insist on pulling my pants up to normal height and don't own any flat-brimmed ballcaps, so can't drive a Subaru anyways, so NO.

Caddy comment was joke. ATS-V's just still too expensive. I've never considered a Cadillac because it's a Cadillac. I have been doing homework on CTS-V though... let's talk about that. I didn't know the CTS-V has been around since 2004. What do I need to know? I see a few first gen's on CL for under $15k... a few with 150k miles around $10k. Selection is pretty limited, not too many on the market. More recent models hold their value extremely well... looks like there's a big price delta between Generations, and low mileage any year commands a premium. Looks like first gen't were a little rough.. clutch, shift linkage... what else? Likely I would never need to mod one, so for that alone, it's on the table.

First gen's had two main issues:
-Fluid filled motor mounts. They will break religiously every 40k or so, resulting in a shit ton of drivetrain slop. There are aftermarket solutions for this.
-Wheel hop. When I owned mine( about a decade ago), no one had found a solution other than "don't launch it hard."
-The first gens all had a T56, and occasionally those could go bad, but it was fairly rare.

The interior was built by Fischer-price, it wasn't competitive when it was brand new and is laughably bad now. Gas mileage was about what you'd expect out of a porky 400hp sedan. I think I averaged around 15mpg. The '06 and '07 models got an LS2 with a displacement bump, so those are a little more desirable, despite the fact that they make the same hp.

My wife loves hers. It matches her hat!

I haven't owned a CTS-V, but based upon my experience with the G8, I would not be concerned about the engine or drivetrain. The components there are shared across GM's other performance cars, and the LS engine is simply fantastic. There was a guy that would come rag a CTS-V at an HPDE organization that I instruct for. Only issue he ever had was an overheated diff at the height of the TX Summer.

The main thing on a car that old would be material condition of the paint and interior, and then functionality of all the doo-dads. GM electronics/wiring are going to be more reliable than German, but there is still a lot of stuff on a Caddy. The low-mileage premium is probably worth it for these items. One thing I like about the Pontiac is that it's a lot simpler in this department.

Clunk-bang on the CTS-V was a pretty big issue.

Pretty sure there was a fix for it. It was either a flex plate bushing or drive shaft bushing. Over a dozen of my friends who have or had a gen 1 has had to fix this issue.
Both the LS6 and LS2 were solid, but i'd rather have the LS2.

My wife and I recently went through the same dilemma. Having a car seat made our 2 door cars a pain. We also wanted a manual. We eventually caved and bought a Kia Stinger GTS. The flappy paddles are okay, it is no porsche or anything, but it's fine for when you want to be in control. Other than that and a few other little things we enjoy the car tremendously. It delivers in practicality, handling, power and has enough nannies to keep the wife happy.

Speaking to the Cadillac CTS-V side of things... I'll share what I know, because I feel like I know too much to just let my pile of knowledge go to waste

1st Gen (04-07) - V1

• Interior quality is mediocre at best. I consistently see the commonly used buttons chip and it has all the features you'd expect (or lack there of) on a car that's now 13+ years old.
• The outer tail light lenses will literally fall off in time. I'll just attest this issue as "GM problems of mid-2000's"
• Wheel hop is a big issue when launched, which will cause diffs to blow. You can swap to the second gen ctsv rear cradle assembly, but its a lot of effort, hard to find the correct rear end ratio, and generally not worth it.
• Engine and trans pretty solid with as plethora of parts available if something does happen. Engine definitely sounds nice.
• Engine mounts fail frequently
• If road coursing the car ever, be careful with oil pressure on sustained corners as its a LS that has typical wet sump LS issues.
• Overall, not an awful bang for the buck car, but I wouldn't be waiting in line for one as everything about the interior really dates the car.

2nd Gen (08-14) - V2

• Manual trim exists, but is harder to find. I've owned two manual V2's. Found my last one with a grossly large list of mods for $30k with 60k miles on it, but that was already 2 years ago. I'd imagine you could find one in mid-$20k range now if you are lucky and patient. Its a no-brainer in my opinion to be looking at a V2 over a V1 if this is the type of car you are in the market for
• Fit and finish of the interior is much improved over the V1, but you still deal with a handful of annoyances inside. The Nav system is archaic and the touchscreen will have random bugs in it that sometimes only get "fixed" when restarting the car. Watch out for sunroof drain clogs. Its frequent and when they clog your interior floor and all the electronics under it get soaked. The recaros are a nice option and hold you better than the standard seat, so I'd try and get them if you could
• Mag ride suspension on the V2 is nice, but the shocks frequently fail. In my experiences, I was doing at least one shock a year at $200/each.
• Wheel hop issues from previous V1 were solved with updated axle and cradle geometry.
• Supercharger isolators rattle (if not already covered under warranty).
• Supercharger water-air heat exchangers like to have the end tanks collapse, which shoots your IAT's through the roof. Reinforced tanks are available in aftermarket
• Check for rear main seal leaks as they are more common than most want to admit
• Engine mounts are still fluid filled and suck.. upgraded mounts increase your NVH a fair amount
• Suspension bushings like to also tear, but then the only options available are poly (which bind and squeak just like miata ones do when upgraded). I was going to dig into a bronze sleeved design to fix this on my last V, but I never got to it.
• Front end's suspension never seem to like to stay in alignment. I had toe-out issues on both of my V2's which leads to inner tire wear. You'll notice it pretty quickly on a car this heavy.
• To focus on more of the positives, for the money spent, I don't think there is a much faster manual sports sedan out there which is why I've owned two of them. My first one (~500whp) ran 11.9 @ 120 with just a catback on it. My second one (780whp on 93) ran 10.8 @ 138 with a full kitchen sink of mods thrown at it while still on 300tw 20" street tires. I was hoping to get it into the 9's with better tires and e85, but that never came to light. They sound incredible, the supercharger whine is addicting, the 6 piston front Brembo brakes are fantastic, the aren't very common so they turn heads on the street, and the drivetrain (LSA / TR6060) is very well supported in the aftermarket. As long as you are purchasing the car with the mindset that you aren't looking to competitively run it in any specific class, its a really fun street car. The Achilles heel with the car is that if you want to be competitive anywhere, its truly just too heavy for both drag racing and road course racing alike. Consumable costs will destroy your bank account as well in the event you try to compete in either. Me wanting to get into a more cost effective car that I can be more competitive in while at events is one of the large reasons I don't own one anymore (and an building a K24 swapped NB instead)

3rd Gen (16+) - V3

• No manual option exists and they are grossly out of budget I'm sure, so I wont even get into them.

ATS-V (13-19)

• Manual option exists, but is rather hard to find. Pricing is still relatively high at around $35k for an manual on if you are lucky. I had the opportunity to test drive one at a local dealership this last fall.
• Steering feedback, suspension, and brakes are absolutely phenomenal. Loved how nimble GM made this car feel given its relatively high weight in the sports car category.
• Interior felt pretty tight which is saying something from a guy used to driving an miata. The gauge cluster is super dated looking.
• The LF4 engine is no slouch on paper, but I left my test drive pretty bored with it. Maybe a tune really wakes this motor up, but I was hoping for more out of the box. You start running out of fueling capability pretty quickly on the DI motor if your intention is to go wild with it. Your opinion on the motor may very well vary if you drive one.
• From a maintenance standpoint, they are pretty bulletproof as far as I can tell with the exception of the few . Rattling wastegates are a known thing, but relatively minor. Being on a lot of the Cadillac performance pages yet, I don't see much for concern here overall. Tony Roma was the lead engineer on the ATS-V platform (he previously was lead on the 2012 Camaro ZL1 program). His experience shows through on the car from a handling perspective. The lack of issues may also be from the fact that the car is still relatively new and few are really pushing the car hard to find limits.

This sucks... how did it come to this? I thought "save the manuals" was funny and sort of a joke amongst gearheads making fun of millenials... it's no joke, the pick is slim and I'm gonna pay a premium for something older than I want with low miles and not beat to death just to make this happen.

Really? I thought we added pretty much all the options you had. Some good, some not so good.

​​​​​​Nobody wants manuals, honestly. Auto cars have gotten GOOD too, so that doesn't help.

It's like throttle-by-wire. It's more expensive to build manual linkages. Electronics are cheap and can be stuck anywhere. Sigh.

It's almost like we're a bunch of automotive luddites driving 30 y/o cars..

Does it have to be a sedan? It might be worth driving a Golf R. I have the 'wagon version' (albeit mine is just a 1.8L) as a daily and the mk7 truly is an awesome platform (and perennial C&D 10 best winner). It's comfortable, quick, awd, and available in a manual. 2019 still has a 6/72k bumper to bumper warranty too. https://www.vwking.com/new-Gaithersb...WA7AU8KW175226

A "hatchback" is too close to "station wagon" for her. SRSLY, she wants a modern version of a Mazdaspeed 6. They were purposeful, not "dipshit ricer" style like a Subie or EVO... had a great interior, solid ergo's, and good options list, and AWD. I've driven lots of cars and yes, the engine (fuel system) was shit and they all blow up without intervention, but apparently I'm looking for a unicorn.

I don't think AWD is in the cards because there's just nothing unless it's Audi. I know nothing about Audis. I know nothing about VW other than "they're weird".

RWD will cut the mustard in the end. Honestly, despite advice to the contrary, I'm seriously thinking about a N55 535i that has had all the "issues" addressed... oil pan gasket is the only thing that really scares me though... can't find one local enough to VA though. It will scratch every itch and a bunch more.

CTS-V and G8 are still out of the pricerange, and V8 hp/tq isn't required. I never thought about an upper limit, but I thought $10k would be plenty when I started this search.

A buick regal GS was fwd manual. Or awd auto. 2.0l turbo. They are CHEAP now and like the SS were never even marketed.

Subaru Legacy GT? Not exactly 'dipshit ricer' like a WRX... We had an '05 and liked it a lot... I was very interested in the MS6, but Mazda was slow getting it to market.

https://live.staticflickr.com/949/27...824a583c_c.jpg

Problem is finding a nice, low mileage example as they're the same vintage as the MS6, but they made a lot more of them. Sweet spot (IMHO) is 2007-2008 Spec B. They had their issues, but with what you're willing to put up with from an MS6, it'd be small potatoes.

Here's one in NY: 2008 LGT Spec B $13k

Some more: Spec Bs

^Also on the list... key is finding one not total dog-shit. I think a lot of guys (like me) fall for Legacy for obvious reasons, but have even less wrenching skills than the average Cavalier owner, and they turn into a project with tons of loose ends and end up destroying the car in the process. There's a decent aftermarket for Legacy's though... it can be done.

If it comes up... anybody want to talk me out of a Legacy... example:
https://newhaven.craigslist.org/cto/...115764303.html

Damn that generation legacy is hideous.

Looks like a nice car though.

This. I was kind of hoping to upgrade ours to a Spec B at some point, but Subaru turned the LGT into a Camrycord in 2009. We bought a G8GT instead.

That's probably a better car than our '05 was, but god is it ugly... :barf:

^I'm almost sold. Looking through CL, the majority of Legacy's GT are either bone stock or Stage2'ish, but done right. They all seem to be in great condition and enthusiast owned. The 5th Gen w/6spd manual and EJ25 seems to be a winner. Yup, I'll agree they have an image problem, but that won't be an issue for the wife... and I've been looking through some owners forums and there are quite a few subtle visual upgrades that take the right amount of edge off the "plain'ness".

SO... TALK TO ME ABOUT AUDI!

Just trying to educate myself. Looks like the "6" series cannot get a manual... ie S6 or RS6.

But, S4 and RS4 plenty manuals available.
2005-2009 "B7" cars with 4.2 N/A V8.
2010-2016 "B8" cars with 3.0 blower V6.

What do I need to know about model years and what not... remember, it's for the wife.

Let's just say this one... yes, it's a wagon, but assume I found this exact car with same ownership history in a sedan.
https://norfolk.craigslist.org/cto/d...121941128.html

With a 130k mile Audi the purchase price is a small part of the equation. I know those engines have some common issues but that one sure seems meticulously cared for.

I'd do shameful things to get my hands on that car.

The CEL is on or the bulb is burned out.

One of my sons had an A4. I helped him bleed the clutch once, Audi used a nylon bleeder screw. You can imagine how well that works. That along with my experience with an older VW Cabrio told me all I needed to know about German engineering.