I know you're a heavy MB nutswinger now, but there's a really good reason why that 100k+ car is sold for 30 within only a few years.
Not that the caddy is holding value, but at least you can fix the caddy problems with cheap easy to find parts, which was my point Mercedes never, economically, makes sense. Money aside, sure they're fantastic. *edit: also http://modesto.craigslist.org/cto/5900055325.html *edit: also https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...60dd8a4f6f.jpg |
As the old men talk, I believe a MK7 Golf R would be high on my list of things to drive. Get one with a long warranty if needed.
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I'd rock one of those. With the longest warranty known to mankind because vw builds "5 year cars" just like MB :D
It's like the RS for us old men |
It's true and I am an old man at heart, but something is truly hilarious watching a FWD hatch on slicks only run into the 12s, when the MK7 GTi on a set of slicks and a tune will get into the 11s.
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The only part of that car that looks good is the rear which they blatantly ripped off
way to go kia, lol |
I greatly enjoy watching these small companies take jabs at the giants. Reminds me of old fight movies.
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1386133)
Anyways, despite getting old I still cannot even fathom owning a "fun" fail wheel drive car. It just doesn't compute.
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Golf R is a good contender, short on power though -- as a MB driver, im not sold on owning a VW. :P
that kia looks great. Looks like a jaguar. |
I'd rock an R with a tune. I'd rock it real hard.
But then the warranty claims would likely be voided. Catch 22 |
I test drove a BRZ and a couple of 2017 camaros yesterday. The BRZ was surprisingly good. Great chassis, perfect size, decent steering, but it's really let down by the engine. It would probably be a blast with 250 whp, and it looks like there are CARB approved supercharger kits, but I'm not sure that I want to go down that rabbit hole. Still, a used BRZ/FRS and a supercharger kit plus supporting mods is very affordable.
I also drove a 2LT RS and a 2SS camaro. The RS had surprisingly good power and sound for a V6. I can absolutely see why some say that the V6 RS with dual mode exhaust is the best deal. The 2SS was stupid fast and sounded great, but overall both cars felt kind of insulated and uninvolving (granted the test drive loop was pretty boring). Add to that the gigantic size and terrible visibility, and I don't think it's the car for me. Plus, a 1SS w/ 1LE package is ~$45k, which is more than I'd like to spend. It's a shame because I think both powertrains are among the very best on the market. |
For me it would hands down be a suby. However I also live in a mountain town and ski 70+ days a season, often driving in terrible conditions.
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From what I've seen, the supercharger kits have been out for a while so you can accurately gauge reliability etc. If you're just going to street drive it and use the miata for shenanigans (autox etc) it would be a pretty awesome balance.
Or were you planning on getting rid of the miata? |
Here's an interesting option...
2017 Chevy Volt. Very light, nimble, all the automotive journalists loved the last one. Has lots of great commuting features like lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control (can do stop and go traffic for you) and if you can keep it under 60 miles you don't use any gas. Oh, and 297 ft-lbs of torque. |
Originally Posted by shooterschmidty
(Post 1392096)
I test drove a BRZ and a couple of 2017 camaros yesterday. The BRZ was surprisingly good. Great chassis, perfect size, decent steering, but it's really let down by the engine. It would probably be a blast with 250 whp, and it looks like there are CARB approved supercharger kits, but I'm not sure that I want to go down that rabbit hole. Still, a used BRZ/FRS and a supercharger kit plus supporting mods is very affordable.
I also drove a 2LT RS and a 2SS camaro. The RS had surprisingly good power and sound for a V6. I can absolutely see why some say that the V6 RS with dual mode exhaust is the best deal. The 2SS was stupid fast and sounded great, but overall both cars felt kind of insulated and uninvolving (granted the test drive loop was pretty boring). Add to that the gigantic size and terrible visibility, and I don't think it's the car for me. Plus, a 1SS w/ 1LE package is ~$45k, which is more than I'd like to spend. It's a shame because I think both powertrains are among the very best on the market. |
If I could cure my car-hopping disease and decide on one do-it-all car, I think a BRZ with the Jackson Racing rotrex kit and their combo radiator/oil cooler would be amazing. I previously owned a 2015 BRZ for 6 weeks. The stock engine is so joyless around town, but I do like how it revs. The rotrex would fill in that cavern in the lower-end torque curve, yet let it actually pull hard on the top end!
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For a DD FRS/BRZ I would be all over one of these kits for a little more go juice.
SCION FRS/SUBARU BRZ - New site |
i put a 10x12' rug in the back of my MB, trying to figure out how I'd do that in a FRS...
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1392342)
i put a 10x12' rug in the back of my MB, trying to figure out how I'd do that in a FRS...
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The obvious solution here is an LT2 swaped brz with a roof rack for Scott's rug :dealwithit:
Originally Posted by astral
(Post 1392178)
Here's an interesting option...
2017 Chevy Volt. Very light, nimble, all the automotive journalists loved the last one. Has lots of great commuting features like lane keep assist, adaptive cruise control (can do stop and go traffic for you) and if you can keep it under 60 miles you don't use any gas. Oh, and 297 ft-lbs of torque.
Originally Posted by x_25
(Post 1392333)
For a DD FRS/BRZ I would be all over one of these kits for a little more go juice.
SCION FRS/SUBARU BRZ - New site |
Serious about the electric super. Its a 5kw brushless electric motor connected to a centripital (centrifugal? Whatever, you know what I mean) compressor. 1.3PR max, up to 400cfm or so at 1.2PR. Not a ton, but cool.
If my miata was street only and I only needed bost for short bits and then could let the 24v battery pack recharge (they hold enough for 60-90sec of contonuous boost) I would be playing with one. |
just no
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1392400)
just no
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The electric superchargers are completely stupid. That's why they have such a limited market.
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You're carrying around all that extra weight and inlet restriction all the time, for 2-3psi worth of boost, and a really mediocre power bump for a limited time, from time to time. Maybe in the future they will keep revising/improving that setup to make it cool, but so far I just don't see it.
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1392354)
The obvious solution here is an LT2 swaped brz with a roof rack for Scott's rug :dealwithit:
I'm trying real hard to determine if serious or trolling Turns out, those claims about quick/fast, nimble, fun, well... no. The lady asks me "it's pretty fast isn't it?" meanwhile, I just got out of my Evo. "No, no it's not.". Still a great commuter car though IMO. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1392529)
You're carrying around all that extra weight and inlet restriction all the time, for 2-3psi worth of boost, and a really mediocre power bump for a limited time, from time to time. Maybe in the future they will keep revising/improving that setup to make it cool, but so far I just don't see it.
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It needs to power up at least partially just to spin just to not cause a restriction under normal vacuum driving. And then it needs to recover after getting drained, taxing the car's electrical system.
I dunno, I just don't see the appeal here. I'm open to being proven wrong tho. How much are they? I didn't see prices listed. It better be under 1k |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1392633)
It needs to power up at least partially just to spin just to not cause a restriction under normal vacuum driving. And then it needs to recover after getting drained, taxing the car's electrical system.
I dunno, I just don't see the appeal here. I'm open to being proven wrong tho. How much are they? I didn't see prices listed. It better be under 1k 90s of boost is a long time to be at or near WOT, and it is just two 18ah batteries for the dump pack. So not any worse than charging your regular battery. They say about 8sec of charging for 1sec of boost (wish they would give charging and useage currents). Also, for normal vavcume driving, I don't see why some restriction is an issue? Your throttle plate is a bigger restriction than it is going to be. |
Sorry to come into this late, but people post all the time how the Golf R is "down on power", but with a tune... the DSG's are high 11 second cars it seems.
That said, I had a '15 MK7 GTI (manual) and ditched it after 7 months, thankfully I got out clean. My GTI had epic electrical, mechanical gremlins they never could fix. The fit and finish of my GTI was pure ass as well. I bought the car on a whim during dieselgate because I got it cheap. At least the R is made in the EU still, or it was when I got my GTI. I had a JB1 on my MK7, and while not aggressive as a tune, I could have it removed in 5 minutes with no tools should I have to visit a dealer. Which was, unfortunately, a common occurrence. In hindsight, I think I would have bought an R and I'd likely still have it. VW/Audi Is very.. very... good at catching people with tunes. Now I DD a Nissan LEAF I lease for $129/month because I get free charging at work, and I've pretty much given up on the whole "fun DD" shit. I actually have come to really enjoy daily driving an EV. I have done fucking nothing to this car except rotate the tires. Nissan is paying me to drive it basically at this price. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1386137)
If I wanted to do high 11's I'd buy a 2012 c63, not the cheapest of economy cars with bolts-ons.
Overall mine has been pretty reliable. I blew a speaker that I need to get fixed, and the ECU died on it one day and took out four coil packs with it. Other than that it's been pretty good. Car is a '14 so a touch over 3 years old, and 28K miles so far. |
lol no offense, but ecu going out at 28k? that's just pathetic, and the reason why MB is essentially worthless outside the warranty
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It's interesting to see how people who own expensive vehicles like that will tolerate failures like that. Tesla's are the same, they fail spectacularly at times but the owners always justify it somehow. I'm not saying that to be abrasive, but its just been my observation. More power to the folks who have the money and time to deal with things like that.
Meanwhile, the average 92 Honda Accord is on the road still with never a wrench turned on it. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1392871)
lol no offense, but ecu going out at 28k? that's just pathetic, and the reason why MB is essentially worthless outside the warranty
Actually they had the timing covers off to change the cam phaser thingies (oh yeah, those have failed too, common problem on this engine) and when they put it back together, they left a ground wire off or loose. Supposedly when the ECU died and the coils died, they found a loose ground wire and said that's probably why the ECU and coils died in the first place. Still broke, and it sucks. But the car is fun as hell and I love it. Despite the problems this car has, the C63 is the most reliable AMG Mercedes has ever made... The E and S class can be insane to repair out of warranty. My C class is a much simpler car with a lot less to break compared to those. |
Originally Posted by Gimpster
(Post 1392872)
It's interesting to see how people who own expensive vehicles like that will tolerate failures like that. Tesla's are the same, they fail spectacularly at times but the owners always justify it somehow. I'm not saying that to be abrasive, but its just been my observation. More power to the folks who have the money and time to deal with things like that.
Meanwhile, the average 92 Honda Accord is on the road still with never a wrench turned on it. |
Yeah I often eyeball AMG's because they are just so incredibly sexy, elegant, perfect blend of looks/sportiness/refinement/comfort, on paper one of the top candidates.
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I get that, I'm just pondering to myseld how MSRP does not always have a linear relationship to reliability. I've been guilty of owning a couple cars like your C63, so I know how you feel about it :)
I'm not a fan of Corvettes, but for the money, they are pretty dead reliable and perform fairly well. I have to give GM some credit for that, its a sports car you could DD without much reservation. |
Originally Posted by Gimpster
(Post 1392878)
I get that, I'm just pondering to myseld how MSRP does not always have a linear relationship to reliability. I've been guilty of owning a couple cars like your C63, so I know how you feel about it :)
I'm not a fan of Corvettes, but for the money, they are pretty dead reliable and perform fairly well. I have to give GM some credit for that, its a sports car you could DD without much reservation. |
I heard people say that at mb/vw/bmw they literally spec out the materials/parts to last the warranty span on the car, and that's it.
As in, x part wasn't even designed to last more than 5 years/50k miles, or whatever their warranty spans are. Look at old Mercedes', they run forever basically. They know how to design/build reliable cars. |
Well I'd like to back away from the argument a little bit, because 99% of the people I know who own cars like Audi S*, AMG * lease them for 24-36 months. The cars will, with some exceptions, get through that lease period with minimum routine or major maintenance. So for the original owner/lessee, the cars are rock solid AND have pretty phenomenal performance & luxury. Plus, for many people who buy/lease cars like this, it keeps them in the hottest shit every 2-3 years ... which is the whole point for some people.
So what I'm getting at is, the secondary market on these cars is pretty irrelevant anyway. The fact I'm even talking about how reliable one of those car is vs. a Honda/Toyota shows that I am but a poor prole :) edit: what 18psi said. |
I got mine off lease, and it was pretty well maintained. It was hard to even tell it was used but for a rock chip and some tire wear.
I picked mine up with 30k on the clock and im just at 53k now. I brought it in under warranty to fix a broken horn (well used ;P), and a second time just before the warranty was up to have them replace the seat recline handle, as the "chrome" coating on the handle cracked and cut me one day. Other than that, no issues so far. Oil changes are a breeze. I've had the dash apart to fix a rattle and it was well engineered, the way the radio secures is much better than I'm used to. I'd like to go up to a four-door, but you can't get the c350 4matic in a 4-dr, which is annoying. I keep eyeing the is350 AWS F-Sport -- it'll most likely be what I end up with. I'd rock an e550, but it's not a sexy imho, and it's a lot more car than i need, but the v8 powerplant is nice. I think the new c-class is ugly, so not even a consideration. My commute is about to go from 25miles to 3 miles, so i can get something a little ridiculous, but i still want 4-dr. It's becoming a bit of a pain -- might as well be a roadster if only 2-dr... |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1392886)
I heard people say that at mb/vw/bmw they literally spec out the materials/parts to last the warranty span on the car, and that's it.
As in, x part wasn't even designed to last more than 5 years/50k miles, or whatever their warranty spans are. Look at old Mercedes', they run forever basically. They know how to design/build reliable cars. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1392886)
Look at old Mercedes', they run forever basically. They know how to design/build reliable cars.
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Mercedes made a choice to go mass market in the late 1980's. I recall reading about it. They decided to chase sales volume instead of upmarket quality. I can't recall who was running things then.
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can i just mention the Prius is a cheap pos? i was in vegas over the weekend and in about a dozen of them... they are so shitty.
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Originally Posted by Gimpster
(Post 1392863)
VW/Audi Is very.. very... good at catching people with tunes.
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1392876)
Yeah I often eyeball AMG's because they are just so incredibly sexy, elegant, perfect blend of looks/sportiness/refinement/comfort, on paper one of the top candidates.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1392994)
can i just mention the Prius is a cheap pos? i was in vegas over the weekend and in about a dozen of them... they are so shitty.
And better gas mileage. And resale value. And more practical than most of them. And... It's a well developed hybrid powertrain with the interior slapped together as an afterthought for the pennies left on the budget. We loved our 2010 because we didn't expect it to be anything it's not. One of the most popular selling cars recently made for a reason. |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1392875)
AMGs break, if you want honda reliability don't ever touch one.
I've owned Audis as my daily driver for the last 17 years, and been very pleased with them. While they haven't been as reliable as a Honda, the internet horror stories about them are totally overblown IMHO. Mine have been new or very-low-mile used, though, and I definitely buy the extended warranty after the factory one runs out. And yeah, no tunes. There's a $1200 chip for my S6 that would turn it up to 600+ hp, but realistically the 450 stock figure is just fine and the factory warranty is far too precious to risk that way. --Ian |
Originally Posted by codrus
(Post 1393009)
If you want Honda reliability, buy a Honda, they mostly fail to fit the "fun DD" category, though.
--Ian |
Originally Posted by codrus
(Post 1393009)
If you want Honda reliability, buy a Honda, they mostly fail to fit the "fun DD" category, though.
I've owned Audis as my daily driver for the last 17 years, and been very pleased with them. While they haven't been as reliable as a Honda, the internet horror stories about them are totally overblown IMHO. Mine have been new or very-low-mile used, though, and I definitely buy the extended warranty after the factory one runs out. And yeah, no tunes. There's a $1200 chip for my S6 that would turn it up to 600+ hp, but realistically the 450 stock figure is just fine and the factory warranty is far too precious to risk that way. --Ian I'd love and S4, S5, or S6 |
Originally Posted by ridethecliche
(Post 1392998)
Subaru as well.
OFT does not. |
Keep in mind I haven't had my MK7 GTI for a year now, but they were also using a flash counter. At that time, nobody seemed to have a way around it and I've not kept up with it.
If the dealer even suspected you had a flash at some point, they would send the PCM to the VAG "tech center" and they would analyze it further. I never felt the need to jeapardize my powertrain warranty for another 20whp, so I was more than happy with the JB1 piggyback. To each their own though. This was a big bitch for a lot of MK7 owners because the first run of the cars had highly failure prone IHI turbos on them. I don't even blame the tunes, tons of stock cars shatout turbochargers as well (including my car). I did not put the JB1 until after the turbo was replaced. Some of them failed spectacularly enough to lunch the engines. When I bought my first Cobalt SS/Turbo in 2009 (I had three), I had a whole spare PCM I could swap back/forth... but that car, to my surprise, was totally reliable even on E85+30psi of boost :P go figure. |
Originally Posted by Gimpster
(Post 1393158)
Keep in mind I haven't had my MK7 GTI for a year now, but they were also using a flash counter. At that time, nobody seemed to have a way around it and I've not kept up with it.
If the dealer even suspected you had a flash at some point, they would send the PCM to the VAG "tech center" and they would analyze it further. I never felt the need to jeapardize my powertrain warranty for another 20whp, so I was more than happy with the JB1 piggyback. To each their own though. This was a big bitch for a lot of MK7 owners because the first run of the cars had highly failure prone IHI turbos on them. I don't even blame the tunes, tons of stock cars shatout turbochargers as well (including my car). I did not put the JB1 until after the turbo was replaced. Some of them failed spectacularly enough to lunch the engines. When I bought my first Cobalt SS/Turbo in 2009 (I had three), I had a whole spare PCM I could swap back/forth... but that car, to my surprise, was totally reliable even on E85+30psi of boost :P go figure. |
It wouldn't be so bad, but the MK7 GTI, and I guess by extension the A3, is underpowered when stacked up with the competition in my opinion. There is no reason the 2.0 Ecotec Turbo in the older Cobalt/SS should have more HP/TQ than a GTI which is labeled and marketed as a hot hatch. Then they leave you no aftermarket or even factory option to increase power.
I'm sure someone will chime in to tell me balance/blah/handling/blah but the GTI in stock form does NOT put a smile on my face when you go WOT. Adding the JB1 made the car have acceptable power, for my tastes. They even pipe in fake engine noises, which I promptly disabled, through the "soundaktor" in the cowl. I would love to have been in the boardroom when that decision was made, and yes I know VW has been using those for a while now. Like I said in my first post, I bought my MK7 on a whim and promptly regretted the decision. Previous to that MK7, my wife and I owned a MK4 new from 2005-2016. People love to hate the MK4's, but we loved it and it was totally reliable for us and looked like new when we traded it in for her Beetle. We have been pretty loyal to the VW/Audi brand, I drove a B6 and a B7 A4 on lease. |
Originally Posted by z31maniac
(Post 1393162)
And that's part of what keeps me from getting an Audi S3. They don't seem to have found a way to flash a tune, then flash back to stock without it being traceable.
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1393174)
It's the same with the newer fords, and everything I've seen points to no way around it.
I may end up just leasing something, I work from home a couple of days per week and my roundtrip commute is less than 20 per miles day, so I wouldn't have a problem keeping under the 10k mile limit on the cheapest leases. |
Leasing has been great for me, it's not for everyone. It helps I have other cars to keep the mileage pressure off of my leases which I'm guessing you do as well. I tend to lease econoboxes that are on special these days though. Before this Nissan Leaf, I had a 2013 Chevy Volt on lease and before that a string of Audi's.
I love working on cars, but not my DD. I just consider it an operational cost of living at this point. How many people, assuming they arent paying cash, ever bring their cars note to conclusion anyway? Not many, especially in the age of people financing shit for 72-84 months. edit: also don't believe the horror stories about returning a lease. I've had no issue on the 5-6 cars I've leased, zero drama. Do make sure you research and understand how to negotiate money factor and residuals though. |
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