Annual fun DD recommendation thread
 

It's been at least several days since we've had a DD recommendation thread so I thought I'd do my part to spread some automotive Christmas cheer.

I'm starting the search for a potential replacement for my 94 turbo miata that's newer, nicer and doesn't require as much attention and tinkering. I've gotten to the point where traveling for work, social life, and my other hobbies are out competing the miata for time, and an upcoming promotion will give me a fair amount of extra disposable income. That being said, I'm still kind of cheap, and am looking for the sweet spot in the cost/benefit curve. That means that I'd prefer to buy used, but new isn't out of the question for the right car. My requirements are fun, relatively reliable, not crazy expensive to maintain, fix and insure, presentable, ie not embarrassing to pick up a date in, and does not require extensive modification to meet my other requirements (I will likely have to move to DC or LA in a couple of years, so emissions compliance is also a requirement). Convertible is not a requirement, nor is practicality as I have a crew cab pickup as my other vehicle. Generally speaking, I prefer two doors/coupes, but I won't discount four doors. One wrinkle is that I have something of a block against buying anything but the "best" version of a particular car, but also don't want to buy a "best" version that looks just like the $15k cheaper entry level version. My budget tops out at ~$35k, but I'd really like to keep it under $30k, and mid to low 20's is even better. For reference, I'm a single engineer in my early 30s.

Here are some of the cars I've considered so far as well as my thoughts on them:
ND Miata: Test drove one earlier this summer and really liked it. The only things I didn't like was lack of power (this is miataTURBO after all) and excessive body roll. I don't really think the performance is worth $28k for a club, especially since it needs suspension mods and maybe some power adders right off the bat, but with the poor sales to date maybe Mazda will offer some incentives. It also looks like they're depreciating very quickly with some used examples in the low 20s. I can see the introduction of the RFs pushing used 2016s even further in the coming months. I'm tempted to wait and see how the transmissions handle the Edelbrock supercharger, while letting them depreciate more, but that can lead to perpetually waiting for the next best thing.

124: See above with the benefit a factory turbocharged engine and less attractive body. The ECU hasn't been cracked yet, but it sounds like 200 whp should eventually be doable with a piggyback if not a reflash. I'm not sure if Fiat's arrangement with Mazda will preclude this, but if their price follows the normal Fiat pattern these will be eventually be available at huge discounts.

FRS/86/BRZ: I've never driven one, but I've read all the same reviews as everyone else. Seems to offer good driving dynamics, but is also commonly called out for poor power and lackluster interior. I'm not a huge fan of the looks, but it's probably at least worth a test drive.

Cayman: This is probably my first choice, but I'm hesitant due to potential Porsche repair costs. The 06-08 Cayman S's are widely available for $20-$25k, but still have the infamous IMS (I understand the probability is low, but a $15k replacement engine is a scary thought). The 09-11 Cayman's without the IMS are much more difficult to find, and are a fair bit more expensive. I probably can't swing a 09+ S variant, but a base is a possibility. I have a feeling that I'd regret getting a base though. I've always wanted a Porsche, so maybe now is the time to do it while I'm still young-ish and without kids.

911: Pretty much same as above, except for the fact that an early 2000s 996 can be retrofitted with an improved IMS. They're also a little cheaper to buy than a Cayman, but I've read that their driving dynamics aren't as good and the interiors are very dated at this point.

Camaro: I hate the lack of visibility, but like the interior and love the drive train. I drove a previous gen SS and was floored by the acceleration, although I didn't like the huge size and mass. Several autorags have claimed that the V6 is actually the one to buy, but again, I don't know if I could bring myself to buying a non-SS and an SS is more than I'd like to spend. I have the benefit of being able to get the GM employee pricing (through a relative) which makes buying a new one a little less distasteful.

C6 Corvette: Probably the best bang for the buck. I'd probably try to find a Grand Sport, or potentially a Z06 with the heads already addressed. Are those worth the price bump over the base coupe? Only downside I see with the Corvette is cost of consumables and the "old man in a mid-life crisis" stigma.

Mustang: Similar thoughts as the Camaro. Supposedly very good, and I like the appearance, but I haven't driven one yet. Base GT is just within my budget. Downside is that everyone has a mustang and most people can't tell the difference between a GT350 and the rental spec V6.

BMW 135/235/335: A new M240 would be awesome, but that's not going to happen. There are plenty of used 335s and, to a lesser extent, 135s around though that could work. As I understand they're great drivers and easily tunable for significantly more hp. Older M3s are also pretty easy to find, but as I understand they can be extraordinarily expensive to maintain.

Lotus Elise: Probably the least practical option, but hits the small lightweight target right on the nose. Toyota powertrain is a big plus, but I've heard that they're very expensive to insure because almost any accident totals the composite tub.

370Z: Test drove one and was really underwhelmed. It was fairly quick, but felt very "insulated" and non-involving.

Those are my thoughts thus far. If you have any other ideas or have any comments on the options I've listed above I'm all ears. Thanks.

Focus ST!

First gen Lexus IS-F?

This is the same reason I have an sti and regret ever buying a wrx.
I've also been looking at caymans even though I don't need a car and cant afford a cayman anyway, and I end up wanting a GT4 which is about triple your budget. I'm scared to drive any caymans because I might fall in love and start finding unrealistic ways to afford one. I did see a really detailed walkthrough on a Porsche forum of some guy replacing his IMS with the updated part on his cayman, if youre mechanically inclined. Didnt seem easy but definitely didn't seem impossible.

I would definitely try a focus ST and a Mustang GT. I drove a GT about a month ago and I liked it quite a bit even though it was an automatic. May pick one up if I ever get tired of my sti. 18psi has one he may share his thoughts on.

I know this sounds like a very unmanly thing to do, but a friend of mine just got rid of his 2016 mustang gt trac pack, for a fiesta S/T. He hated having a high car payment, and a car that he's too ---- to drive in any weather, and he wanted a fun yet practical car.
Claims he has no regrets, and the fiesta s/t is the funnest daily driver he's had in a long time.

Wow. I used the word a nal and it got edited.
I even used it as a behavior adjective, not a butt sex or homo reference.

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. I don't normally associate Lexus with "fun", but a cursory look looks like it has potential (and presumably Toyota reliability).

I'm pretty open minded, but I don't think I can do a fiesta. Too cutesy and even slower than an ND. I totally get the idea of not wanting a huge payment for a car that you're too afraid to drive or park. That's a big part of the reason I'm predominantly looking used, and I'm focusing on "fun" vs "fastest".

I had a Focus ST as a rental car in Germany and really liked it! It's probably a little more practical and not as aspirational as I'm looking for, but if I was forced to own one vehicle, and it couldn't be a truck, I'd definitely get a FoST. My dirty desire is that Ford buys a large stake in Mazda again, they dismiss all of the Mazda powertrain engineers and stick the 2.0 L ecoboost in the miata.

At the very top of your price range you could likely get a decent, higher mileage 997.2 911. In 2009 the 911 changed to a DI engine with no IMS bearing, also that is when they introduced the PDK. No IMS bearing means an even smaller chance of having to deal with a $15k repair bill.

If it was me, and the car was solely for my personal use, I would go for a 6-speed MT. I think some of the early PDKs had issues and I don't think the transmissions are especially serviceable. Like if you have PDK problems that means you need a whole new PDK transmission. 6-speed would alleviate those concerns, but you are looking at an expensive clutch job when it needs done.

Overall newer 911s are very durable and reliable, but it is a Porsche so maintenance and consumables will be expensive.

Coupe to impress the trackday bros and purists...cabriolet to pick up all the ladies.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...7569/overview/

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...9155/overview/

Cars for Sale: Used 2010 Porsche 911 in Carrera, WESTMONT IL: 60559 Details - Convertible - Autotrader



The best part of a 6-7 year old 911 is that your average everyday person just assumes it's a $75k+ car and by owning one, you must be a baller.

Nissan G37? Audi S5?

--Ian

I drove a Cayman GTS at the Porsche museum and loved it. I think I'd be more than fine with "just" an S and not a GT4, but they're tough to find for a test drive in my area.

I drove a friend's G37 and I wasn't very impressed. Power was ok, but I really didn't care for the clutch throw and engagement. No way do I want anything to do with an out of warranty Audi, or Mercedes for that matter. Maybe if the carmax warranties were still cheap.

8th gen Buick Riviera.

I bought a 2010 335i sedan back in June. Last year of the twin turbo n54 that the JB4 can take max advantage of, first year of the face lift and upgraded infotainment. No regrets thus far. With the plug in tune it's fast and fun, comfortable seats, plenty of space.

Friend of mine has a Fiesta ST with a cobb access port and a front mount and absolutely loves it. Not nearly as fast as the 335i ;) But destroys it in a corner.

I have a 2011 335i sedan. Intercooler, piping, intake and Cobb access port tuned to about 370/380 whp/wtq.
installed some Motion Control singled adjustable dampers and it is a fast and comfortable daily driver. Love it so far.
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I just picked up a 2012 E63 amg as a daily (then again my commute is 5 miles), what about an m5? Don't sleep on a nice cts-v either, it's everything your c6 corvette choice could be, but with 4 doors and a supercharger!

Buick Reatta. /thread

Doesnt want an out of warranty VW product, but considering out of warranty Porsches, seems legit.

My vote is hands down a CTS-V, 2009+, best bang for the buck as far as power+ luxury is concerned. Comes in wagon, sedan, coupe, very mod friendly. I would personally never get a Focus ST, FWD and direct injection can go F itself.

My daily right now is a 2012 Golf R and I love it, currently looking at a 2013+ S4 or a 2011+ C63 AMG.

Doesn't that car use the new 2.0 TFSI motor?

It does, its their "high output" motor with a K04, vs the k03 that comes standard on all GLI/ GTI. Unfortunately it also has direct injection :/

With your budget, and your "criteria", I would never be able to choose a car. I mean, there are SO many choices when you don't need 4 doors/4 seats, when you don't need great fuel economy, when you don't need daily driver, and on and on and on. There's basically a car from every major auto maker that would "meet your needs" and there are over a dozen really really nice cars that I'd never be able to choose between.

Good luck is all I can say lol

With my 35k I chose a 15 Mustang GT. My needs are: must have 4 seats, must be reliable, must be very mod-friendly and relatively cheap to mod and maintain, must be comfy and quiet and at least semi-fast. I think I did ok.

If I didn't need 4 seats I'd have a c6z06 in my garage right now. But I'm not sad and I didn't "settle" either, no ragrets.

BTW: your lineup in OP is all over the place. I think before you even start thinking about any particular car, you should at least narrow down what type of car you want/need. What type of driving you'll do. There's a big difference between carving canyons in or beating the snot out of a minimalistic high revving 4 banger and stretching the legs of a 450hp comfy GT cruiser.

18 PSI, you're certainly right about the breadth of my initial list. In the end, I'll probably narrow it down to small, two seat or 2+2 convertibles or coupes with a used ND, M235 or Cayman S being the most likely contenders. This thread has provided a couple of other cars I should include in my test drive campaign, so I'll just drive as many as I can find and see if any of them speak to me in a way that demands my money. I'm not in a hurry, and worst case scenario is that I end up driving a bunch of cool cars that I don't buy.

I have driven Greddygalant's 335i and it was fucking epic. I LOVED the power. It definitely felt very isolated as I had just gotten out of my s2000, but it seemed like a perfect fun daily.

I drove a 32k mile one owner 2008 Cayman S back to back with my S2000 as well. The Cayman was nice, and the steering is the best steering i've ever felt in my life. But the shifter was absolutely horrible, and i kept wanting the top to go down. The engine sounded nice but... hard to pay $30k for it. Definitely aspirational, however.

I'll likely end up in a GTI for a fun daily in a year or so, but my budget will be considerably lower than yours is (about $15k).

I finally got my 01 running again, so my 2016 ND Sport is for sale. You did say you only want the top-end model though...

I've driven everything OP mentioned and owned half of them. The one's that are still in my garage are an IS-F and an Elise. Those two are something special.

Personally I found the Porsches, muscle cars and Corvettes un-involving.

The truth is, every car on that list is good. Ultimately it's going to come down to two questions:
1) How practical do you need it to be
2) How much do you care about consumable costs

edit: I'd also throw out an E92 M3. The V8 is supposedly very reliable, moreso than the turbo I6. Oddly it feels like it lacks torque down low, but it's an M3, so it's pretty fantastic.

see beginning of my build thread in sig.

the TLDR version: young engineer has same thoughts as you, parts out miata, buys CTS-V2, gets bored of dishing out money to maintain and race said car, sells V, buys NB, many happinesses occur from bang for the buck smiles and low maintenance costs miata offers while affordably doing burnouts and other hood rat things on way to hair appointments. The end.

That said, you can find 09+ CTS-V's for high 20's now if you look hard enough. From a daily driving standpoint I loved that car. Its sharp looking, the recaro seats, sunroof, and factory nav all are quite nice for the money if so optioned. From a maintenance standpoint it was pretty maintenance free compared to its german counterparts thanks to the LS powertrain. Insurance on it is surprisingly cheap due to being a sedan and I saw 21mpg hwy in it which i didnt think was terrible given the setup. Consumables are high overall though. Getting stuck in traffic (<10mpg) burning premium fuel adds up quick, the gas tank is small, tires arent cheap, and brakes arent cheap. From a performance standpoint its hard not to love a bone stock 500 whp. Ran 11.9@119 on street tire bone stock in my manual (which was pretty much a record on the V forums). Lost to miatas at every small lapping event or AutoX i went to though thanks to its friggen whale heavy curb weight on crummy tires. Overall, great car if you want just to leave it as-is and just drive it, but if you're like me you cant leave anything stock and you want to be competitive. Fair warning to open your wallet wide if that happens lol.

Caltag and Padlock, thanks for the inputs, they're exactly the kind I was hoping for. I do keep Padlock's experience in-mind as I have a friend that bought an RS6 with similar regrets.

I drove a 2014 335 x-drive and a 2013 M3 earlier this week. The 335 was certainly a nice car and had plenty of power, but it didn't feel special or involving. That may partially be because they didn't have a single manual on the lot so I had to drive an auto. The M3 on the other hand was pretty awesome. This particular one had almost no options so it was actually somewhat spartan inside, but the exhaust and power delivery were intoxicating. I did notice that the low rpm range feels weak, but with an 8k redline who spends time there anyways! Unfortunately, the M3 was over my budget, and I'm not sure if it's worth the price, but it was a fun drive.

Re: E92 M3 reliability - Are we throwing out all the cars that had engine bearing issues and had to have either bearings or complete engines changed in <30k miles? I'm certainly no expert on these cars but the little research I did sounded awful terrifying...

Also, my new vote is for you to go balls out, up your budget to $45k, and get an Aston Martin V8 Vantage.


https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...3464/overview/

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...8166/overview/

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...7698/overview/


Don't be a wuss...do it!!


That last one is in Charlotte, I think I shall be test driving it soon.

Lastly, I know (of) a guy here in NC who daily drives a V12 version of this car. It's been very reliable/durable for him. V12s are $100k+ so is plebes should probably stick to the V8s.

Sex on wheels

My boss back in 09 was looking into his first "luxury" car in the NoVA area. I tried very hard to sway him to a $40k-$50k Aston Martin or a Maserati. I figured if you wanted luxury, might as well get something that does not look like every other car on the street. My rational was at the price point he was looking maintenance and reliability will most likely be about the same across all the brands. He ended up buying a BMW 5 series and it looked like every other BMW that are all over the place in NoVA.

Yep, like all the other S motors from 2000- on, the bearings, even on motors not beat on, will likely need replaced in the 80-100k range. They are basically considered a wear item, and about a $2k job at a dealership.

The E90/2 M3 even has a color coded indicator on the tach to show how low to keep the revs until the car is fully up to temp.

"Reliable" and "inexpensive" are relative terms, especially where M3s are concerned. If you make it 100k with only a $2,000 major service, I'd call that a huge win.

Padlock's experience is surprisingly common. Lots of folks go balls out on a miata, upgrade to something faster, and then end up very happy with another stock'ish miata.

Fiesta ST. Seriously, I don't know a single person that has driven one that hasn't raved about it.

Now you do. I drove one, it was fun, but I'd have a GTI over it.

Focus RS and Evo IX would be my top DD's.

On a tight budget, I'd have to agree on the Focus ST.

this is what im looking to replace my 2012 C350 AWD with...

Whoa, that's just one item. VANOS units are notorious for problems, and are $$$$$ to replace. If you get the DCT transmission, you're looking at $400-500 fluid changes every 25-30k miles. Crazy expensive Castrol oil, cooling system/bushing/window regulators all known maintenance stuff for BMWs for the last 20 or so years.

And of course consumables for a 3600lb car with 420 HP.

But damn are they phenomenal to drive, just awesome cars. I'm really having a hard time on deciding on what I'm going to replace the BRZ with hopefully this year.

But I keep getting pulled back to the Camaro SS 1LE.

I was very disappointed in the Focus RS personally. maybe once they hit the used market I'd be more interested but for the new price there'd be no way I'd purchase one. Its in the same price range as the new STI, and personally I find them both terrible values for the money. I bought my CTS-V with 40k miles on it for THOUSANDS less than a retail RS and STI and got WAYYY more car.

The Fiesta ST is a blast for an affordable fun decent MPG daily hatch as long as you can live with the FWD. Got to AutoX one of them 2 years ago. My only gripe on them is they are sorta small if you're looking to get some utility out of this car. I mean, its better than a Miata by far, but still small. Being a hatch helps.

I haven't drove a 1LE 5th gen (only a 1SS 5th gen). I will say, the car feels big, you feel tiny inside it, blind spots are terrible. I'm a GM guy for the most part through and through and I hate the 5th gens (minus the powertrain). I much more enjoy my dads 99 LS1 T56 Firebird. You can pick them up for under $10k CLEAN nowadays (my dad got his for $9k with 60k miles on it 4 years ago). They routinely get 30MPG hwy if you are nice to them and don't modify them much (like my dads). If you're into the muscle car thing, I don't really think you can look past an fbody for C5 vette for the money

Not that I don't agree with your RS opinion, but comparing new to used it pointless.

I respectfully disagree. Comparing new and used has plenty of points, but I won't clutter this thread with them.

My point is that you can ALWAYS get way better/more car for the money buying used. There are almost no exceptions.

And comparing a hot hatch to a V8 sedan. *facepalm*

I'd like the Ford RS, if I was a teenager that wanted a fast economy car that looks like it was built for a teenager without any class.

At 45 grand, I don't see very many teenagers getting one.

random sidebar: 5 years ago I'd not even have to decide between an RS and the CTS-V, I was making fun of the "oversided heavy land yachts".

Now, it would be no contest: CTS-V without even thinking about it. Am I getting old, sons?

What do you mean, "getting"?

:cry:


GET OFF MY LAWN, KIDS

$36k w/ no options.

But even then, the average person doing no down payment loan for the full amount is nearly a $700/month payment + insurance. So I'm with you, not many young kids getting one unless they have 4 roommates and spend all their money on their car..........and there are guys that do that.

And yes, you are OLD.

But I can't say anything I want rid of the BRZ and get something with a bit more space, faster, and more comfy.

the STi is $36K as well... what's your point?

I don't see very many with brand new sti's either. that was my point

Someone is buying them, because I see a decent amount of used STI's around. Hell the Navy base near my house has a damn requirement that you have to own a blue WRX/STI or a diesel truck.

I do. like every day.


What I don't need out of a car: A color-matched stitched spaceship interior designed for market that can't afford the car.

You need one where the actuators and motors die like every 5 years costing 2k each time amirite?

Fiesta ST with gtx28? Becuase it is fucking hilarious.

I like the slicks he has on just the front to hook

STAGE 3 BRO! COME AT ME!

This Boxster S appears to be a killer deal, if the car is sound:

Cars for Sale: Used 2011 Porsche Boxster in S, Pasadena MD: 21122 Details - Convertible - Autotrader

I had my eye on it, but ended up getting a local one in a color I preferred. And then the price dropped.

posts modified cars drag racing in a DD thread...

full bolt on "big" turbo car on slicks.........trapping 110

LOL

Anyways, despite getting old I still cannot even fathom owning a "fun" fail wheel drive car. It just doesn't compute.

If I wanted to do high 11's I'd buy a 2012 c63, not the cheapest of economy cars with bolts-ons.

I'd get a caddy ctsv and pocket the left over wads of cash

A 2012 c63 with around 50K can be had for ~$30K.

It looks like you'd need to buy a 2011 CTS-V with over 75K to even get close to the same price -- no wads of extra cash... plus you're driving a caddy with known issues and a still has a cheap shitty shiny-plastic GM interior to top it all off:

much class:

https://www.cstatic-images.com/super...e1a5caa4c1.jpg


I don't think a CTS-V would fit in my garage to be honest. I do wish there were more options for a sports sedan other than a BMW or Audi. I do have the is350 AWD f-sport on my list.