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Old 03-28-2013, 04:27 AM   #1
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Default Anti-theft deterrents?

I've been reading a fair amount about this subject and I'm having some trouble settling on a strategy. The miata is a fairly trivial car to break into and steal. There don't seem to be many threads on the topic either.

After removing the PO's alarm system it dawned on me how easy it would have been for a mildly skilled thief to disable the system by chopping all it's wires and bypassing the ignition relay.

Expecting prevention against entry as a primary deterrent is unrealistic and I'm not really considering tow counters because they are kind of impractical -- Line lock had some potential. Or boots/chains... eh.

Some of the better ideas seem to be:

1. Kill switches/dissablers/immobilizers

Car Alarms, Security and Convenience
How to install a car alarm - DIY, Self install car theft security - Honda / Acura

-fuel pump
-ignition
-starter
-main relay

2. QR steering wheel possibly with lock

3. Removing various fuses/relays, ecu, unplugging the battery while you park

4. some kind of tracking -post theft

5. alarm systems -- I'm hesitant on this because I see primarily ignition switch disables and engine bay sirens used, and in my eyes they are virtually useless because no one pays attention to a car sirens. I could see the merit in a cabin siren but it shouldn't take long to hack that away either unless you get crazy with secondary power sources like a battery. A two way pager is pretty much the only saving grace, but that won't stop them from driving away.

Ravelco's seem as if they could be simple yet affective

There is no way to make your car an impenetrable fortress, it comes down to making it more trouble than it's worth to steal.

Eventually I'd like to put in a push start and probably remove the steering lock and turnkey switch altogether. So some kind of anti-theft will be mandatory. In dreamland I thought about going completely keyless. a Passive Keyless Entry System that senses an rfid tag in range hooked up to door lock actuators which would completely disconnect the locks from the handles/keyholes and weld them shut possibly w/ some backing- cant punch a hole and easily pull the lock. have to break a window (hard top). The push start wouldn't work unless the rfid tag was in range but the system would only be as strong as it's disables which I'm still working out...
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:59 AM   #2
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Hidden FP switch ftmfw. Old trick from my RX7 days.

Good luck having a thief get it started period. Or anyone for that matter who doesn't know how the switch works.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:21 AM   #3
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I put a steering wheel club on my daily. Plus the tinted windows, what they can't see, they won't take.

On the miata, if they even manage to get it started, i'd probably hear it. But, we've had 3 garage break in's in the last few months on my block. I'm thinking about putting a fuel pump switch in. Seems like it would be easy to do, and easy to hide.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:40 AM   #4
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Line lock, wow that would be devious as ****. But do miatas get stolen? I hardly ever hear about the car getting stolen, just hear about tops being slashed and anything of value + cup holder change getting stolen.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:07 PM   #5
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FWIW: If they really want the car, they'll put it on a flatbed in the middle of the night.


I leave my car unlocked. If they're dead set on stealing my cassette-adapter, 0.99 cent tire pressure gauge, or my paperback copy of "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest; go right ahead. Better they open up the door rather than slashing my new top or breaking out a window.


If I was really determined, I'd make a kill switch. But a standard shift car with manual steering is a decent theft deterrent. How many thief's are gay enough to steal a 20yo mazda?




EDIT: Plus, I own (literally) nothing anyone would want. The following are my greatest assets:


Laptop with broken battery that only works if constantly plugged in (less than 1 second without a plug means shutdown)

36inch color TV, the big *** boxy kind that are the size of a small-block.

A set of Mitchell repair handbooks for imports that only go up to the 80's.

3 sets of OEM Miata 14 wheels, all with less than new tires.

One set of beat-*** 15inch honda wheels from a 92 accord I'm painting to make into winter wheels in a few years.

The Miata is the only thing anyone in their right mind would want to steal. Personally, I'd be more worried about vandalism, but as I have no garage, there's nothing I can do.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:10 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Line lock, wow that would be devious as ****. But do miatas get stolen? I hardly ever hear about the car getting stolen, just hear about tops being slashed and anything of value + cup holder change getting stolen.
I don't really live in a high theft area. Mountain folk with guns and grudges tend to be pretty vindictive so I haven't heard of any in my area being stolen. I've read about quite a few in security posts along with a lot of other cars from the same era. Really it's the concept of safety that I'm about, and I have a lot of fun designing and building things.

If a thief is unable to steal a car there is a good chance they will resort to vandalism, but god dammit I want to make it one hell of an experience for them -- even if I'm left with some tattered piece of metal afterwards. I will try to make it less about getting back at the thief and more about getting them to move on though.

If it's an option, making your car look less desirable or unassuming (stock) is a good idea

The problem with a simple centralized control unit is that everything comes back to it and relays are on/off. A network of communicating or isolated control units could be made harder to defeat because actual commands have to be sent over the lines. Rotating encryption furthers that difficulty. If one were to have multiple arduinos, one for every disable for example the system would have the potential to be more difficult to defeat. The fun/cool part of a control unit is you can use virtually any type of security "switch" to disable it: Keypad, rfid, tx/rx, bluetooth, sms, magnetic stripe, biometrics, digital key. The list goes on.

The disadvantage is complexity and increased points of failure--along with finding power for the control unit/s. Standard switches are simple and last a long time. You could potentially use reed (magnetic), toggle, passive push switch relays, Combo switches for a single disable, Switches already built into the car. I'm certain there are others.

one could use protected and not easily identified black wiring (see ravelco) for important circuits.

If you've got a megasquirt you could load non-functioning profiles...

A good security system should be:

- layered
- easy and practical to enable (potentially passive)
- very difficult defeat
- easy for the owner to disable
- Obscure and well hidden
- (ideally/realistically) relatively simple

I think it would be a good idea to compile a more extended list of some potential system disables despite what people say about posting ideas to the internet where everyone can see them. I feel that well designed open security is better than moderate private security. We don't have to discuss kill switch locations because those are kind of like private keys. What are the necessary electrical systems that are required to run that can be disabled safely, easily, and remotely?

obvious disables are:

-ignition switch
-starter
-fuel pump

some others:

-clutch switch
-various fuses
-battery/main relay
-coilpack/ignitor relay
-alternator
-ecu disable (I'm sure there are multiple variations to this)

Last edited by frostyllama; 03-28-2013 at 04:48 PM.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:16 PM   #7
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Snakes.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekel View Post
Snakes.
Answer found.


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Old 03-28-2013, 04:26 PM   #9
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Dude.

A properly installed FP switch will not be able to be defeated by a thief /unless he knows of it's existence/

Stop overcomplicating this ****, which you are doing substantially. It's a very simple solution, and a properly hidden FP switch is even used in places in Puerto Rico with insane car theft rates.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
Dude.

A properly installed FP switch will not be able to be defeated by a thief /unless he knows of it's existence/

Stop overcomplicating this ****, which you are doing substantially. It's a very simple solution, and a properly hidden FP switch is even used in places in Puerto Rico with insane car theft rates.
but dawg...
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:57 PM   #11
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Soo...

Just how does the "turbo boost" work exactly in Knight Rider?

That's one thing I've never understood. Is it meant to act like an EBC with two boost settings, or is it meant to actually somehow redirect the exhaust from an N/A manifold into turbo manifold? Or what exactly?
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:58 PM   #12
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I think its nitrous.
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:12 PM   #13
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Would you steal this heap of ****?
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:22 PM   #14
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People like paint jobs, fancy rims and spoilers. I want a car I wave my dong at, have it unlock, and push a button for vroom vroom.
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:46 PM   #15
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So, what you are saying is that it's not actually effective *security* you want, what you want is fancy gadgets.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:09 PM   #16
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Just cause your car looks like a POS, doesn't mean someone doesn't want your hardtop. Ask me how I know....
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
So, what you are saying is that it's not actually effective *security* you want, what you want is fancy gadgets.
Can't it be both?

Quote:
Originally Posted by karter74 View Post
Just cause your car looks like a POS, doesn't mean someone doesn't want your hardtop. Ask me how I know....
That bites man. I thought about picking up a hardtop lock but I don't really know how effective they are
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frostyllama View Post
Can't it be both?



That bites man. I thought about picking up a hardtop lock but I don't really know how effective they are
You're the kind of guy that pays dudes to urinate on him and prays a little bit gets in your mouth.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:54 PM   #19
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
You're the kind of guy that pays dudes to urinate on him and prays a little bit gets in your mouth.
I boosted your car just a little while ago. You can get it back, but it all has to go in my mouth.

Everybody seems to think Fuel pump disable is a safe bet so I'll stick my money in that.

Last edited by frostyllama; 03-28-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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