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Old 10-30-2011, 10:06 PM   #41
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In this one, you can see the deckedge operator standing in the catwalk immediately in front of the nose of the aircraft.
At time :31, you can see him put both hands in the air... this is the indication that the cat is fully armed and the fire button is lit. When the shooter touches the deck and points, you'll see that guy sweep his whole body forward-back as he visually scans for anybody trying to signal him not to fire... then his right hand will drop as he pushes the button. He then puts both hands immediately back up. In the event the cat doesn't fire, his hands are up telling the shooter than he did indeed push the button, and that he's not going to do anything else until the shooter tells him to.


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Old 10-30-2011, 10:10 PM   #42
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You seriously have a cool job Sam.

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Can you have sex with females on a Carrier and not get in crap?


When my grandpa was in the Navy (WWII) he had to jump off the deck of a carrier during training.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:13 PM   #43
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So, wait, are you a back seater on a Hawkeye, and a Shooter? Or you WERE a backseater on a Hawkeye, and NOW you're a Shooter?
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:19 PM   #44
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When my grandpa was in the Navy (WWII) he had to jump off the deck of a carrier during training.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:48 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Rick View Post
That number actually shocked me. 300 seems like a recipe for disaster.

When you were in the bubble shooting the jets, why is everything audible. Why do you call the cross wind, squat etc? Can anyone else here you saying them out loud?

Can anyone override you via a button or switch or are you the point of no return guy? Are you accountable for the people on the deck if you launch and say they made a mistake? Do mistakes even happen with that much redundancy ?

Have you seen combat?

You read a lot of ground soldiers get messed up after blowing **** up like people. Do pilots just high five and walk around saying "i feel the need, the need for speed!" and not giving a crap cause they are so distanced from it all?

Is there such thing as dog fights anymore?

Anyone ever fall overboard by accident, by choice?

Which part of your day do you dislike the most when on a Carrier; favorite part?

Can you have sex with females on a Carrier and not get in crap?

Does the carrier ever rock due to waves? Is there such thing as a big wave to a carrier?

*can you tell im so Canadian and not military.....* Alex will vouch i ask him shitloads of Military questions.
It takes a lot of people to make the whole thing happen... 300 on deck is probably the extreme, but 150-200 is more than average.

When I'm in the bubble, there is another guy sitting behind me, facing forward. He's an enlisted guy who has a ton of other controls and instruments for reading the condition of the cat. He also talks to all the below-deck stations and is a second set of eyes/ears in the safety chain. He's also a guy who's spend his entire Navy life on the flight deck and working specifically on the catapults. As a Shooter, I only had a 2 year tour... it was something "career enhancing" that aviators get to do at a specific point in their career... but all the enlisted guys are there forever. The other guy in the bubble keeps me out of trouble. At several points, you can hear him talking to me, repeating things in the launch chain or providing info I need to make a decision.

As the shooter is going through the launch sequence, there are several people who can push a button to override the cat and prevent it from firing. The Airboss in the Tower is one. This initiates a "SUSPEND" where I must disconnect the aircraft from the shuttle so the pilot can bring the throttles back. Then we talk about what happened and usually try again.

The Shooter is ultimately responsible 100% for the safety of the shooting evolution. Mistakes do get made though and people die. In the end, I'm the guy pushing the FIRE button on that big bitch... if it goes wrong, it's my fault.

I flew the opening weeks of OIF off of Lincoln, and my entire cruise on Nimitz was launching planes into Afghanistan. I've seen plenty of jets leave with full wings and come back clean.

I haven't heard of any pilots coming home with PTSD, and I can't speak for a fighter guy, but I am keenly aware of the responsibility I have when directing fire. Giving somebody permission to fire isn't the same as pulling the trigger, but the knowledge that if you **** it up the wrong people will die is exactly the same. I've given permission many times, but I trust in the chain of checks/balances and in the people providing me with the information I need to make a decision.

I can also tell you that the life of a jet guy isn't very glamorous. It's hours or days of paperwork, preparation, briefing, reviewing, double-checking... endless tedium and bullshit boredom followed by 1hr of actual flying where you may get to drop a bomb or strafe a target, but probably not.

If you're talking about REAL flying... the place to be is arguable attack helos. Apache and Cobra pilots are legit crazy.

The last time the US was in an air-to-air engagement was in the opening days of Desert Storm. It's been 20 years. The chances of it happening again are almost zero. The technology of radar and missile systems makes it almost impossible that an enemy aircraft will ever again get within visual range of a US fighter. We train extensively in dogfighting though, with the Hawkeye being a major player in that arena, but an actual combat dogfight is a virtual impossibility with modern technology.

People fall overboard all the time... usually by accident. **** just happens... slippery deck, jet-blast, whatever. Jumpers are common... you usually get one or two per 6-8month cruise. It's always some ***** looking for attention.

Least favorite part of the day is when I'm standing somewhere waiting for somebody else. When planes are flying, time is precious. As a shooter, I'm on the flight deck 6-10 hours per day, which means "don't waste my motherfucking time". Best time of the day is bullshitting with the boys around midnight over a poker game eating a bowl of half-melted Rocky Road.

Sex is not allowed... but that stops nobody who wants to. The ship is big... very big. It's easier for Officers because we have staterooms, but lots of guys are married and there isn't a wide selection of partners. Enlisted types find ways however, it's not hard. If you're caught, it goes very bad on you.

Does a carrier every rock due to waves? HAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:54 PM   #46
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No!! Rick is a foreign spy!!

God Bless SAMerica!
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:56 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by vehicular View Post
So, wait, are you a back seater on a Hawkeye, and a Shooter? Or you WERE a backseater on a Hawkeye, and NOW you're a Shooter?
I am a Hawkeye NFO. I'm currently in Virginia Beach going through refresher training because I haven't flow in 3 years. I'm going back to a Squadron in about a month.

However, Officers are expected to have a very broad and varied career. At certain points of your career, you're expected to leave the cockpit and go do something else. For one of those tours, I went to USS Nimitz as a Catapult and Arresting Gear Officer (Shooter). It is completely possible for a guy to complete flight school (2 years), go do a single initial 3 year fleet tour, and then never get in the cockpit again, but still finish with 20+ years and retire. The military has TONS of jobs that have nothing to do with what kind of gold device you wear on your chest.

My shooter tour ended a year ago, and between then and now, I spent a year in Pt Mugu as the Safety Officer at a Staff.

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Old 10-30-2011, 11:03 PM   #48
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Gotcha. My dad was an Army helicopter pilot for ~20 years, and after flight school, he spent the entire time he was in the Army and physically able to fly either flying, training other guys to fly, or ordering large groups of guys to go fly. I guess I never considered that after flight school 'they' would tell you to go do something other than fly, as long as you wanted to, and were able to.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:29 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
With an ejection seat aircraft, rule #1 is that if you're going to pull the handle, do so in time to saver your life. I'm pretty sure the emergency procedures for a cold cat-shot for tactical jets or "not enough speed" off the cat are:
1. Select Afterburner.
2. Gear up.
3. Flaps to FULL.
4. Standby to eject.

In the Hawkeye, skip step 1 and insert "Pray" for #4.

Here's another famous video of an old radial piston S-2 Tracker.
Actually,

1. AB
2. Gear Up
3. Flying Speed Not Attained: Stores -- Jettison (say goodbye to 15,000+ pounds that aren't going to be delivered today)
4. Flying Speed Not Attained: Eject (most NATOPS procedures seemed to end with this simple little word).

I can't even begin to imagine flying around the carrier without an ejection seat. Don't know how you do it.

The S-2 video didn't load. You're talking about the one where the load shifts and it goes straight up, right? That one's nightmarish.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:36 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by vehicular View Post
Gotcha. My dad was an Army helicopter pilot for ~20 years, and after flight school, he spent the entire time he was in the Army and physically able to fly either flying, training other guys to fly, or ordering large groups of guys to go fly. I guess I never considered that after flight school 'they' would tell you to go do something other than fly, as long as you wanted to, and were able to.
Actually, having typed that, he did command a simulator battalion, and do a Tour With Industry, both when I was little.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:45 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Have you seen combat?
I was a pilot in VFA-83 on USS Saratoga during Desert Shield/Desert Storm. Did 25 combat missions during Desert Storm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
You read a lot of ground soldiers get messed up after blowing **** up like people. Do pilots just high five and walk around saying "i feel the need, the need for speed!" and not giving a crap cause they are so distanced from it all?
It is generally pretty remote. There is also a stark realization that it's either me or you, so I'm going to make it you. Looking back, I can tell you that the Navy kept us pretty pumped up -- maybe even a bit brainwashed -- about how "good" we were. That's needed though. They expect a lot and don't want hesitation.

The one thing that haunts me, even now, are the attack missions on the Basra road. Nobody was shooting back. It was just a turkey shoot. The CNN film footage made me ill. It was already over, and the poor saps just wanted to get home. Hell, you didn't even have to aim. Just drop the ordnance. It was going to hit something.

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Is there such thing as dog fights anymore?
Sam referred to the last ones from 20 years ago, which would be the ones in Desert Storm. Two guys in my sister squadron (VFA-81) got MIG kills -- Mark Fox (now an Admiral) and Nick Mongillo. Another famous Hornet driver from Saratoga was Scott Speicher -- first KIA of the war. Heck of a nice guy too.

This thread is making me all sentimental and ****.
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:49 PM   #52
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Hats off to you Sam. Good luck with your tour. This your Department Head tour?
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:28 AM   #53
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Hats off to you Sam. Good luck with your tour. This your Department Head tour?
Yup, DH tour... still holding out for O-5, but don't have the record for Command screen. It's ugly in the boards at Millington. We'll see what happens in the budget come February, but we're certainly looking at A LOT of "stuff" going away. "Stuff" as in an entire Airwing or even Battlegroup. The Reserves are going to take a huge hit, and so are all the VR's and minor'ish AUX-type units. They're really trying to cut us down to the bare bones. Competition is going to get really tough. I've already got my application all typed out and ready for Home Depot.

Hey, I fixed the link to the last video in Post #28 for the Tracker flying through the wave... serious OH **** moment. I know the other one you're talking about, it was a C-2 back in the way early 70's I think.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:34 AM   #54
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Sometimes it is much better to go around. (starts at ~1:00)





And Rick, here is some pitching carrier flight ops for you (ignore the music) off the coast of Australia. I don't now how in the hell you can get a plane onto a deck that is heaving and rolling like that!

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Old 10-31-2011, 12:41 AM   #55
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What goes around, comes around. Things got REALLY ugly in 1992. Tailhook + "Peace Dividend." It's going to be just like that this time too, with two wars ending and a socialist in the White House.

Ronald Reagan gave me my diploma. Back in those days, it was all about a 600 ship Navy. Ahhhh . . . the good 'ol days.
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:06 AM   #56
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Sam, that is some very interesting info, and I thank you.

"See ya!" Best departure call ever.

I'm kind of an aviation buff, but all of my first-hand experience is civilian, and PPL at that. A 172 is the biggest thing I've ever been in the left seat of. (I have an hour of right-seat time on a G-IV, but that was purely by accident, and I didn't have my logbook with me at the time.) The only carrier I have ever been aboard was the Intrepid, and that doesn't really count.

In that video of the S-2, it looks like the deck was awash when the plane went in. Am I reading that right? Unbelievable.



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What is far a far more important number for tactical jets however is refusal speed. There comes a certain speed reached on takeoff that when you hit it, you must continue the takeoff. Prior to, you still have the option to abort.
That's essentially what we'd call V1. It's the decision speed below which you have the option to safely abort the takeoff, and above which, you abort only in the event of a major emergency (eg: fire) or if you deem the aircraft to be unable to achieve flight.

You have enlightened me in one critical regard: stores. With commercial airliners, fuel load is obviously a variable, though of course the FMC generally takes care of that for you, and drop-tanks don't exist. In the world of GA, it's quite simple. The tanks are full, the payload doesn't vary all that much, and if anything is hanging from the wings, you'd have noticed it during the walkaround.

So things make a bit more sense now. I simply hadn't accounted for the fact that weapons have weight.




In the video of the intruder, what is the object which drops from the airframe at 0:18, a few seconds before they punch out?
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Old 10-31-2011, 01:47 AM   #57
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That's essentially what we'd call V1. It's the decision speed below which you have the option to safely abort the takeoff, and above which, you abort only in the event of a major emergency (eg: fire) or if you deem the aircraft to be unable to achieve flight.

In the video of the intruder, what is the object which drops from the airframe at 0:18, a few seconds before they punch out?
V1, V2, etc. are FAA regulatory terms. Your interpretation is correct.

The Intruder jettisoned its drop tank in an attempt to stay aloft.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:22 AM   #58
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Hey Sam, thanks for taking the time to answer the questions and everyone else chiming in. Guess I have a few more "just curious" questions....

1) sixshooter posted a video where the plane got hung up from going overboard. What happens next? Is there a crane that comes and saves the plane? If say the plane is damaged, is it repaired onboard (does it matter if its landing gear vs say a wing damage)?

2) Is there anything a carrier lacks that you wish it had to help you pass the time?

3) In your spare time can you game? (call of duty, bf 3)?

As for people falling into the Ocean, that seems scary too. Do the guys on the deck all have to check in before and aft a shift and if you fall in the water is there a special magic button you push to make the ship aware?

4) Is there anyone on a Carrier that everyone else really fears, or really respects? Like he walks by and people get hush hush and below their breaths people say "thats so & so...".

5) Whats the best thing they serve you to eat on a carrier?

6) Is there such thing as contraband? ie: ****, Cigars etc?

7) Does everyone on a carrier have a weapon? Where do you keep it when you are on deck, just in your room / bunk area?

8) Know of any openly gay male or females onboard? Do people treat them different?



I think thats it for this round. Super awesome you are answering though, some good insight into your job and I think it goes without saying, but we all appreciate what you do for us.
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:56 AM   #59
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The Intruder jettisoned its drop tank in an attempt to stay aloft.
Ok, that's what I suspected it was. It just seemed that the airplane appeared to be controlled, stable and climbing right up until 0:18, and then it immediately pitched and rolled to the right as soon as the tank dropped.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:19 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Rick View Post
Hey Sam, thanks for taking the time to answer the questions and everyone else chiming in. Guess I have a few more "just curious" questions....

1) sixshooter posted a video where the plane got hung up from going overboard. What happens next? Is there a crane that comes and saves the plane? If say the plane is damaged, is it repaired onboard (does it matter if its landing gear vs say a wing damage)?

2) Is there anything a carrier lacks that you wish it had to help you pass the time?

3) In your spare time can you game? (call of duty, bf 3)?

As for people falling into the Ocean, that seems scary too. Do the guys on the deck all have to check in before and aft a shift and if you fall in the water is there a special magic button you push to make the ship aware?

4) Is there anyone on a Carrier that everyone else really fears, or really respects? Like he walks by and people get hush hush and below their breaths people say "thats so & so...".

5) Whats the best thing they serve you to eat on a carrier?

6) Is there such thing as contraband? ie: ****, Cigars etc?

7) Does everyone on a carrier have a weapon? Where do you keep it when you are on deck, just in your room / bunk area?

8) Know of any openly gay male or females onboard? Do people treat them different?



I think thats it for this round. Super awesome you are answering though, some good insight into your job and I think it goes without saying, but we all appreciate what you do for us.
There is a large crane on the deck called Tilly. There's a LONG version of that C2 almost going over the side where they show them actually picking it up.

There is a huge maintenance factory on board the ship in the Hangar Bay. Short of major structural issues, almost anything can be repaired if it can be unbolted from the plane... even a wing. The problem with a C-2 wing is that you can't get another one out to the ship to repair the plane, so it would have to be craned off at a port-call or ride the ship home down in the Hangar. C-2's are the lifeblood of parts delivery that keep the entire ship running, so having one broke is not an option. The staff I just left had the job of making sure carriers didn't lack for C-2's... it's a huge deal when one is broke.


The only thing anybody wants anymore on Navy ships is faster internet. Social media is so critical to the lifeblood of morale that the younger generations are literally starting to "not be able to live without it".

Gaming is huge on the ship. In Officer Country, just about every stateroom is hooked up to one or more lans with adjoining rooms. We run cat-5 cable all over the place so we can keep it real every night. There are Halo and COD games going on round the clock somewhere on the ship.

All of our float-coats have MOBI's built into them (Man Overboard Indicator)... when you fall over, it sends out a beacon that is picked up on the bridge. A "man-overboard" is called over the 1MC and everybody on the ship musters at designated locations. Usually they know who fell in because the MOBI's are all coded. No checking on/off the flight deck. But when somebody jumps, they usually make sure they're see so they can get rescued... like I said, they're just pussies looking for attentions. It's when somebody really wants to kill themselves and jumps in the middle of the night that we don't find them... and it might take 12hours before someone notices they're gone.

If you've got a good crew, nobody is feared... but there's always somebody who's managed to make it to a high rank is is a complete douche. You don't avoid that guy because you're afraid of him, but just because he's a douche. The Navy does a great job of promoting "managers", but only marginally does a good job of promoting "leaders". There are a lot of people who manage to make it really high in the military who absolutely suck at being a person. They have no social skills, no leadership ability, make life ******* miserable for everybody around them, but have all the "checks in the blocks" for promotion. The Navy knows this is a problem as is looking for ways currently to fix them.

The food is all mostly buffet standard. If something sucks, it doesn't last long. Food that's good gets notices and they have it more often. Some ships are better than others, but on average it's as good as Denny's.

Not too much stuff is contraband. Ships still allow all tobacco products. There are designated smoking areas and guys dip all over the place. **** is everywhere as you'd expect although with girls around you gotta be careful.

Nobody except ships security forces carry weapons, and then only 9mm's while underway. In-port, there are rovers with shotguns and AR's... plus in-port there are M240's and .50cals manned.

Everybody knows who is and who isn't gay. EVERYBODY KNOWS! And nobody gives a ****. In my experience, about 1/2 of the "working rate" females in the Navy are lesbian... and by "working rate", I mean the grease monkeys, wrench turners, flight deck workers, etc. Yeoman and corpsman and band geeks and other "aux" rates probably are more hetero. On the other hand, about 50% of dudes in "aux" rates are gay. I'd say about 90% of all dudes who work in straight administrative roles are gay. I'm only exaggerating a little here, but the point is that EVERYBODY KNOWS.

The media has made a huge deal of DADT. The average troop could care less. Admirals and senior military officials have to have a "voice" because most of them one day want to run for political office and want good Christian folks to vote for them. The average guy could give a ****. Some of my best dudes were borderline flaming and ALMOST ALL of the best girls that worked on my flight deck were butch like it was their job.
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