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Old 11-01-2006, 06:37 PM   #1
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Default Benchracing (turbo build ponderings)

Curious what you folks think of my plans and budget.
MS 3.0 $200
LC1 $200
Homemade log mani $100-200 (?)
Homemade exhaust (3", cat, muffler) $200
Homemade IC plumbing $50
JY IC $50
T25, T3, 15G, (?) $200
Boost control $50
Water inj $250

$1400. Think I can get 250WHP? I doubt that WI is really necessary for those goals, but the car will get run hard in the heat, and it'd let me run 87 octane for daily use. Still need a boost gauge and some other little things, but whattya think of the basics?

I'd like to build a car that occupies the narrow region between 13-sec daily driver and so-fast-it's-scary.

Car would get daily driven at 10-15PSI, then detuned to 5 or thereabouts for track use... at least when my wife is running it
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Old 11-01-2006, 06:54 PM   #2
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I would recommend an HKS cast iron manifold instead of a log. IT's very well designed and, as you know, much more durable than welded steel.
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Old 11-01-2006, 07:04 PM   #3
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sounds good, but don't be suprised when you're way over budget.
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Old 11-01-2006, 07:08 PM   #4
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uh 87 octane just buy good gas.Wi is not necessary since you have an IC but it does help when done correctly. What are you going ot do for injectors?
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Old 11-01-2006, 07:19 PM   #5
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You won't come up with an exhaust system that you will be proud to own for only $200. I would budget more. Also there is no power level that makes WI important or not important. I think its a no brainer for any boosted car. It would be my first mod if I bought a factory boosted car as well. I think a $2500 budget will leave you with something that looks and performs a lot more quality.
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Old 11-01-2006, 07:20 PM   #6
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I think some of your pricing is a little bit low. $50 for IC piping? I have more into just CLAMPS for my piping. Then pretty close to double that for couplers. I really don't think you can do the IC piping for less than $200, unless you weld it all and only use clamps and couplers at the tubo, TB and IC. Even then you'll be close.

You also should budget something for fuel. Bigger injectors atleast, and I'd replace the FP just to be on the safe side.

Are you planing to fabricate everything yourself?
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Old 11-01-2006, 07:39 PM   #7
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Appreciate the thoughts, gents!
The HKS Mani is a great call, thanks.
Agreed about being over budget, BTDT. I figure I'll MSnS/WB, and see how well I can make in run NA. ..but then again, BTDT as well, and once the EMS is in place, the call for boost cannot be rejected.
I like to run 87 octane just on general principal. Obviously, the car can run on crap gas in vacuum, so the extra 20-30c/gallon is just wasted... and with standalone, you can tune it for boost.
Buwahaha, I care not for pride. Pride is a DIY project, not sexy bling. Besides, it's mostly invisible. 3" Mandrel U's are cheap as hell, and I don't have to worry about rust. Sure weight will be higher than necessary, but BFD if I've got 100% more power, right? The one I built before was a pain, but fun, and I learned a lot. Only cost $100 to the axle; tailpipe I farmed out, it was another $100.
On the IC piping, I plan on going with steel and mandrel bends. Probably powder coat it just to have something I'd be proud of. Clamps, HAH! Volvo turbos literally litter my local JY, so couplers and clamps are practially free; I've even got a fair sized hoard of that junk lying around.
Haven't gone too far with injectors, but will definitely need to. I have a set of Volvo 300cc leftovers, and actually a 3bar volvo FPR too.

Course there are things I've forgotten - oil feed/return, fuel pump, etc, which is why I suppose I'll be over budget.

Yep, plan to fab it all myself. Efficiency may be down, weight may be up, but really, 250HP would be stupid overkill anyway, so I've already got a built-in margin for error.

The WI is partially a crutch for low octane, partially just because I want to. On my last project, it was on my to-do list, but I sorta gave up since the trans woulda died had I pursued any more power.
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Old 11-01-2006, 09:46 PM   #8
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Based on his parts/budget list, I'd think he'd be very proud of an exhaust that was under $200. I like it. The WI might be the key to get the power you need if you're close and can't run optimum advance under boost.

Al- Where'd you get the HKS mani?
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Old 11-01-2006, 10:03 PM   #9
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Just the turbine discharge flange, flex section, and a decent cat and muff are gonna set you back over $100. By the time you have your straight piping, a couple mandrel bends and some hanger rod you are probably well over the $200 mark for just a pile of parts...and thats if you just use mild steel. Use good components like Magnaflow and Vband flanges and you will thank yourself later.
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Old 11-01-2006, 10:25 PM   #10
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I got my mani from a user on here who is no longer active. I believe there are a few places online you can get them from.
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Old 11-02-2006, 12:26 AM   #11
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NOPI has had the HKS mani for $220-240 for a long time (whoops, just checked and it's up to $270!) and even have 10% off coupons from time to time. I just decided against it since it's a top mount and people complain of size limitations and heat problems with the turbo right near the hood. Glad I got my BEGi cast T3 unit for $290!
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:44 AM   #12
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At 250hp you need/want a clutch. (maybe you or someone mentioned it and I didn't see it?)

Sounds like you already weld, there's nothing wrong with a good welded log manifold. 1/2" plate steel and a steady torch hand can be your best friend in keeping down flange costs as well. Since I ***-U-Me that your handy with a welder, you can probably skip the flex section as well, many people don't have one.

Also you may want to re-think your plan on 87, most OEM turbo cars require 89, at 2 bucks a tankful, or 8 bucks a month, it might not be the right time for you to be spending the dough on a turbo, what happens if you melt a piston?

FWIW: I have both a HKS and a Log, never had issues with either one... (and both are on DD's)

Oh, I was curious-- have you done anything to get more HP out of your Volvo? I was kind of curious what there was available? I searched a few times but either get stuck back in 240/740 Land or some site in Cali that wants 12K to add 50Hp to a S40....
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:56 AM   #13
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On a good track. I would disagree that the cast mani is better than the welded steel. They both perform well in my opinion, and I would even go with the welded steel, as I did. I'm very happy with mine.
-Michael-
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle242gt View Post
Curious what you folks think of my plans and budget.
MS 3.0 $200
LC1 $200
Homemade log mani $100-200 (?)
Homemade exhaust (3", cat, muffler) $200
Homemade IC plumbing $50
JY IC $50
T25, T3, 15G, (?) $200
Boost control $50
Water inj $250

$1400. Think I can get 250WHP? I doubt that WI is really necessary for those goals, but the car will get run hard in the heat, and it'd let me run 87 octane for daily use. Still need a boost gauge and some other little things, but whattya think of the basics?

I'd like to build a car that occupies the narrow region between 13-sec daily driver and so-fast-it's-scary.

Car would get daily driven at 10-15PSI, then detuned to 5 or thereabouts for track use... at least when my wife is running it
A couple of points.

1. I don't see 10-15 PSI happening on 87 Octane, not without seriously lowering the compression, better to pick a larger turbo with low boost if 250 RWHP is your goal on anything less than premium. I think it's still unrealistic on 87 octane with the displacement of the stock motor. Although water injection may make it possible.

2. Increasing the budget to $2000 seems a little more realistic.

3. I'd use a chinese intercooler over a JY intercooler. It's about the same price and you get something a little nicer.

Mark
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle242gt View Post
I like to run 87 octane just on general principal. Obviously, the car can run on crap gas in vacuum, so the extra 20-30c/gallon is just wasted...
are you really going to be that cheap when turbocharging your car? come on man, its an extra dollar or two per tank. Its not like its going to make you go broke. Besides, I dare you to stay out of boost once you have it on your car... it'll never happen
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Old 11-02-2006, 03:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritch View Post
Besides, I dare you to stay out of boost once you have it on your car... it'll never happen
HAR-HAR-HAR! I second that!!! :gay:

In my experience once you get over 200whp in a miata anyone who rides with you is gana be scerrrd. Even a few of my friends with 11second integra's are impreased and my car is only about 180whp.

Oh yeah and your car will probly if you put in 87 with boost. Goodluck.
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Old 11-02-2006, 03:23 AM   #17
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Old 11-02-2006, 03:33 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Wideopentuning View Post
thats a strong case for WI, but those engines are just a bit stronger than the B6 or BP and can handle knock better. Especially with an ECU that can compensate for it better than ours can
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Old 11-02-2006, 10:43 AM   #19
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They are also sporting 8.1:1 compression.

Mark
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Old 11-02-2006, 01:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefe View Post
Oh, I was curious-- have you done anything to get more HP out of your Volvo?
Talkin bout the 855? Nope, not a thing. I don't do front wheel drive Basic ricer upgrades can get you 300WHP, from what I understand, and that's pretty much the breaking point of the automatic. Check out www.volvospeed.com

Appreciate the comments re octane, gents. My BMW states 89 min, and with the chip it's supposed to be 91 min. Pah! I ran a tank of 91, compared that to a tank of 87, butt dyno showed no difference, got worse mileage per the OBC. No knocks or pings except on tip in at 500RPM. I ran my Volvo 242 at 15psi without WI on 87, never had a ping, and actually ran pretty decent timing. Raised a lot of eyebrows. That was 8.7:1, and 9.0:1 is pretty close in my book. In fact, when I saw that in the owner's manual, I chuckled just a little bit. Almost like they made this thing for boost.

And actually, isn't the BP originally a turbo motor, with squirters, etc, or is that just the B6?

Quite honestly, though, I'd be happy with even 7 or 10 PSI. 15 is a nice round number, after all, life begins at one bar (And continues at the next, har har har).

With 77K and crappy records, I'm assuming it's still got the OEM clutch. How much HP/TQ are they good for, and many miles do they usually last? Car spent some time in San Francisco, which probably didn't do the clutch any favors.

Interesting to get the pros and cons of the cast mani. I googled the HKS and found this. Not too bad. What do two weldels, two weldtees(?), a T25 or T3 flange, and the mani flange cost? Is there a place you can order the flanges, or would I just get that fabbed locally?

As far as the budget goes, I was talking to my bride and codriver, and she thought $2000. I said, well, I got about $1400. She said, "Yep, definitely $2000." But didn't bat an eyebrow, so I guess that means I've got carte blanche. (sp??) Money's not a real big issue, but I like to do things as inexpensively as possible (while still doing it right).

Totally off topic, but I figure I can threadjack my own post.... Just took my first drive in the rain. I'm still trippin on how much damned fun this car is. Why would a gutless car have a torsen except to get loose in the rain?
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