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Old 11-26-2007, 03:43 PM   #1
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Default DIY, BEGi-S, FFS, or STFU?

Alrighty then. Seems great strides have been made with parallel MS and OBD2 since I last quested for boost.

$400 for MS/LC1/harness, and the plug-n-play factor with the boomslang has my wife "coming around" to the idea of boosting our shared track car.

The BEGi-S setup looks like a great way to get all the pieces together, too. Except I am one cheap *** SOB.

$1600 for the S kit (minus the RRFPR). Wellnow, what's that made of? DP ($300?) - I can make myself for $50. Manifold ($400), damn son, a $100 weld-el log would be fine. GT2445 ($800?) is a nice turbo, but what about a used 15G or 13c Mitsu ($150). See where I'm going?

On the other hand, off-the-shelf parts would be kinda nice since they'd really cut down on the fiddle factor. Support would be nice too, but how much support will I get when I use MS?

Then there's the fact that I share this car with my wife on track... she'd rather run boostless, and I can understand that. (Scott, I know you addressed this on M.net). Enter the FFS coldside. Yeah, tis a chunk of moneys for sure. But well engineered, simple-ish installation, easily resold down the road (try that with a DIY turbo kit) and very simple to de-boost.

Or, maybe I should just shut the hell up, keep it stock underhood, and rest comfortably knowing we can flog the car mercilessly without drama.

Any thoughts?
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:06 PM   #2
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if you can drive, turbo it. i myself suck (1 track day only so far) and i decided that i need to learn how to drive first and then think about turbo.
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:19 PM   #3
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MS, DIY turbo as much as possible with the bell manifold.
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:28 PM   #4
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just shut the hell up, keep it stock underhood, and rest comfortably knowing we can flog the car mercilessly without drama
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:46 PM   #5
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Just reread the post.
MS has tons of support, specially on the forum. DIYautotune is also very very helpful.
The BEGI is warrantied and guaranteed to fit. Easy install, trouble free(most the time).
If she doesn't like boost, you just wire the wastegate actuator open. She can run it NA all she wants.

Pretty sure that solves all your issues because FFS just sucks ***.
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:48 PM   #6
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DIY kit because im proof that you can get 10psi of boost for around $1100
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Old 11-26-2007, 04:59 PM   #7
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Come on chad the FFS kit does not suck ***. Ecool might be abit of crap for you guys but he isn't going to use that. That being said the mp62 is a wonderfull blower and a whole heap better than a m45. He can make some real nice power with it if he wants to. And despite what you guys think Tom still seems like a cool albeit abit to eager to sell his porduct kind of guy. But for the money/reliability go with a bigger turbo and make your own manifolds if you trust yourself. A begi manifold might have a better design and flow better but a weld by you done right is just as effective as a weld done by corky bell himself in my book. Besides it would make a nice weekend project to fab it all up anyway. Or you can spend 700-800$ on there manifolds buy your own turbo and make your own IC/piping decisions
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:20 PM   #8
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Thanks for the input, dudes. MS becoming easier to install/bypass is the main reason I'm coming back around to boost... No way can I stomach RRFPRs, PCPros, and other bandaids when I could get MS/WB for the same price.

It's great reading the WI threads - that'd be an easy upgrade for any of the boost choices. I'm just having trouble finding a sweet spot in the easy->cheap continuum... but since reliability and reliability are my first and second priorities, I guess that points me toward the easy (and expensive) end.... The BEGi-S + MS/WB + WI might do it. ($1600+$400+$200 = $2200, still a helluva lot less than the FFS. And if it costs $1000 more than cobbling together junk from all over ebay AND comes with a better turbo, that might not be too bad.

For some reason, I was under the impression that running a turbo with the WG chocked open was a bad idea. Any ideas on that?
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:32 PM   #9
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IF your gonna get on the pot then order the MS all ready! Sounds like you'll need the EBC as well, one setting for you and one for "others".

Tuner toys just posted a $600 T3, might be a good choice for the track.
Don't skimp on the oil lines either, plan on another $100-150 for those.
And another $2-300 for a WBO2
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:43 PM   #10
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Bah! I prefer talking and thinking to actually doing anything.

I'm being very very gentle with my wife on this - one false move and I'm back to 100 wheezing whp. If all goes to plan, I'll MS/WB in the spring, get all the kinks worked out my the start of summer, and drop the whole S kit on there. Once I get that all sorted out, then install the WI.

Thanks for the prod about the lines. On my previous turbo/MS project, I cobbled together lines out of rubber hose, and never had any drama... but since BEGi has upgraded lines for $150, I may as well jump on that.
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:44 PM   #11
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The BegiS kit is a great starting point, but if you're going to track it, starting out w/o an intercooler isn't productive.

Also, you should define a power goal. It's been proven that you can get an easy 220whp with around 12psi of boost using MS whatever turbo you're running. For the track and a low boost level like 12psi, the T3S60 is tough to beat. You don't need the early spool of a T25 and the T3S60 will give you better midrange and topend.

My advice...
Begi Mani
Begi DP
2.5"-3"exhaust (custom saves money)
Custom X-over pipe w/Devil'sOwn and BOV mounted
T3S60

Get yourself a 5-6psi wastegate spring for everyday street driving where you don't need the WI. Then just enable EBC and WI when you track it for safe power.

The beauty of it is that swapping back to a full stock setup shouldn't be that hard at all... maybe an afternoon to stock and back when you need to smog it. You could skip the WI and go with an intercooler... but harder to remove or fool the SMOG Guy when needed.

Don't forget a clutch... depending on power level.
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle242gt View Post
Bah! I prefer talking and thinking to actually doing anything.

I'm being very very gentle with my wife on this - one false move and I'm back to 100 wheezing whp. If all goes to plan, I'll MS/WB in the spring, get all the kinks worked out my the start of summer, and drop the whole S kit on there. Once I get that all sorted out, then install the WI.

Thanks for the prod about the lines. On my previous turbo/MS project, I cobbled together lines out of rubber hose, and never had any drama... but since BEGi has upgraded lines for $150, I may as well jump on that.
Yeah, I have used some pretty ghetto stuff too, On my P5 I used break lines for oil feed, and copper for the return, it's been three years now..that and 50K miles with out an intercooler- but just added WI... I think that entire set up was less than $1K, that was with the new WBO2 and new EMB.
I didn't ask for her permission, I just slowly added in over a couple of weeks while she was at work...It wasn't until we were going to the store and I got in the passenger seat, plugged in the Laptop and said you drive, I need to check something
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:12 PM   #13
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Cripes, just like that, you've got me thinking full DIY again. Jefe, my wife must be smarter than yours, because she'd smell a rat a mile off.

Tough to say what my power goals really are. On the track, I don't generally find myself wishing for more power - I'm starting to really love the whole momentum car philosophy. But around town, ugh, it'd be nice to have more juice.

If I had to say what I want now, it's probably 6psi on the street, 0psi on the track. Even doubling* that to 12 street, 6 track, I think WI/MS would be plenty without an IC.

I have a feeling my clutch it on its way out anyway. Halfway tempted to remove the engine, replace the clutch, do the full coolant reroute. Course, some of that is probably knowing the butterfly brace will be a bitch to remove for a trans drop.

Thanks Sam, lots of good things to think about in your post.
*yes, I know 2x0=0, but you get the drift.
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:36 PM   #14
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Sounds like the same prediciment my buddy is in..We fixed that though. We swapped cars for a bit on a drive. Now she wants more power more than he does. But he is on the fence about which kit to get. But he also said when our stock hits $120 he'd sell some and buy the FFS kit. Well our stock did hit $120 last month and still no kit of any kind....
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Old 11-26-2007, 06:47 PM   #15
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You can weld your own manifold and DP, but you will be dicking with it. I don't like to dick with it. My BEGI manifold and twin-tube DP have done around 6500 miles now, including 8 track events, and they are still holding up fine. If I were building a street beast, I might consider welding my own manifold and DP; if I were building a reliable track car, I'd be on the phone with BEGI.

Wiring open the wastegate isn't the best of ideas, since you're liable to melt stuff. Your best plan there is to get a 5psi can and run that on the track, and 10-12psi and WI on the street.
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:29 PM   #16
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Jefe and Sav, you guys speak directly to my post.
I have a decent income, and handily exceeded an arbitrary earnings goal... seems like a good reason to reward myself. Hence the $4000 FFS coldside ($3700 + wideband + gauges + whatever).
I absolutely DO NOT want to dick with this thing at all. Tweaking, tuning, install, fabrication, setup, that's all well and good... I enjoy it immensely, and am pretty good at it if I do say so myself. But dammit, once it's dialed in, I want to be able to drive it 500 miles to the track, flog it mercilessly for 500 miles, then drive it home again. That makes the Begi setup, esp with the new BB turbo, upgraded DP and lines, pretty attractive. But with a "boomslanged" MS box, if any piece of the puzzle craps out, I could pull the FFS belt, unplug the MS box, and be OEM again. Which is another vote for the FFS.

But I played the boost game before... and I fear I'll want more power once the initial thrill wears off.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Jefe and Sav, you guys speak directly to my post.
I have a decent income, and handily exceeded an arbitrary earnings goal... seems like a good reason to reward myself. Hence the $4000 FFS coldside ($3700 + wideband + gauges + whatever).
I absolutely DO NOT want to dick with this thing at all. Tweaking, tuning, install, fabrication, setup, that's all well and good... I enjoy it immensely, and am pretty good at it if I do say so myself. But dammit, once it's dialed in, I want to be able to drive it 500 miles to the track, flog it mercilessly for 500 miles, then drive it home again. That makes the Begi setup, esp with the new BB turbo, upgraded DP and lines, pretty attractive. But with a "boomslanged" MS box, if any piece of the puzzle craps out, I could pull the FFS belt, unplug the MS box, and be OEM again. Which is another vote for the FFS.

But I played the boost game before... and I fear I'll want more power once the initial thrill wears off.
Both are equally capable of being trouble free. Same goes for the BEGi, open the wastegate and disconnect the oil feed and you are back to stock should the turbo fail completely. That catestrophic of a failure is unlikely though, it's really actually pretty rare that a well functioning turbo will lunch itself unless something is not right in the first place.

Although I did blow the seals out of my 60k turbo on my 323 GTX once... felt like I was playing spyhunter with the smoke screen it generated.

Mark
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Both are equally capable of being trouble free. Same goes for the BEGi, open the wastegate and disconnect the oil feed and you are back to stock should the turbo fail completely. That catestrophic of a failure is unlikely though, it's really actually pretty rare that a well functioning turbo will lunch itself unless something is not right in the first place.

Although I did blow the seals out of my 60k turbo on my 323 GTX once... felt like I was playing spyhunter with the smoke screen it generated.

Mark
Wouldn't you want to keep the oil feed hooked up. The turbo is still spinning, just not boosting.
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:54 PM   #19
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DIY kit because im proof that you can get 10psi of boost for around $1100
that much? only have about $500 in mine
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Old 11-27-2007, 12:02 AM   #20
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I run a boomslang MS, but without changing injectors (a real pita on a CS dual feed rail BTW) reverting to 'stock' isn't really an option, for me at least. And you would have to keep your MAF.

Why not spend the $4K or $5K with Corky and get the right tool for the right job, done right the first time?
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