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Old 05-09-2008, 11:20 AM   #1
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Default Dumbass question about gas

I am a bit ashamed to ask this, since I have lived in both several EU countries as well as in the US, but here it comes:

The available pump gas here in Germany (as in the most of Europe) has a lot high octane rating then in the US. Base level is 95 octanes, but up to 100octane is easily available at standard gas stations.

My question is: are the fuels measured according to the same system? Can they be compared and can we here in Europe run high boost levels on our pump gas? Is it that easy, or am I missing something?
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:33 AM   #2
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The octane rating is a world-wide system. Most higher class european vehicles were designed to run on 100 octane fuel, and is why the pump gas has higher octane values than from the U.S. And the 3 pump gas octane levels in the U.S. are 87,89, 91, and 93. And the particular mixture of gas differs from state to state as well, and during months of the year. In the mid west there are less laws and lower pollution, so the octane is generally higher but doesn't burn as clean as the blends sold in cities. In the winter MTBE (methyl tert-butyl ether) is added to the gas and burning better with the oxygen levels differing. But, that is getting away from the question. In other words, the octane ratings in the U.S. are lower because of how the U.S. manufacturers designed the cars to run on the lower octane fuel, and how the U.S. government dictates extreme standards on emissions, which in turn goes back to the car manufacturers.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:44 AM   #3
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^Are you ficking serious?^
That is the dumbest **** I heared all day!!! And I just talked to my Accounts Recievable lady.

Torkel-Europe has much higher quality gas, you are correct, you can run higher boost due to higher octane content in superb european gasoline.

Chris, where do you get your information, CNN?
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:47 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hackerchris View Post
Most higher class european vehicles were designed to run on 100 octane fuel, and is why the pump gas has higher octane values than from the U.S.

In other words, the octane ratings in the U.S. are lower because of how the U.S. manufacturers designed the cars to run on the lower octane fuel, and how the U.S. government dictates extreme standards on emissions, which in turn goes back to the car manufacturers.
Hang on a minute; this can not be right. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you post but: Do you mean that they are design with a variable timing system to be able to take advantage of the higher octane? Most people drive their cars (yes, all types of cars: High end or low end) on the 95octane gas. But most cars run just fine on the slightly cheaper 91 octane gas that can be bought also here in some gas stations.

Also, all European countries I lived in (and I think it is even a standard EU-law these days) has sharper emissions laws then most (if not all) states in the US.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:48 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
^Are you ficking serious?^
That is the dumbest **** I heared all day!!! And I just talked to my Accounts Recievable lady.

Torkel-Europe has much higher quality gas, you are correct, you can run higher boost due to higher octane content in superb european gasoline.

Chris, where do you get your information, CNN?
Beat me to it. I need to type faster. And learn to stop being so damn polite.
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:49 AM   #6
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Old 05-09-2008, 11:53 AM   #7
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Go vote for Gore or something...
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by hackerchris View Post
It was a bit much to read there. I learned from the first link that MTBE has replaced lead in the US gas to lower emission, whatever that has to do with my questions. Perhaps you can point me to the part in these documents where it compares US gas with EU gas?
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:29 PM   #9
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hackerchris, you are a ******* idiot.

There are two "common" octane ratings. Motor Octane (MON), and Research Octane (RON). Because of the differences between the two measurement systems, any one particular gasoline will generally score higher in RON than MON.

In Europe (and most other civilized places), the RON number is the one posted on the pumps.

Here in the colonies, the number posted is the average of the two- they actually say this right on the pump. Next time you fill up, look at the sticker: (R+M)/2.

Thus, there's about a 5 point spread between the two systems (Europe vs. NA). The stuff that's labeled 91 in California would be about 95 in Germany. In the southeast US where you can get 93, that's Europe's 98.


Oh, and Torkel, when you ask "Do you mean that they are design with a variable timing system to be able to take advantage of the higher octane?" the answer is yes. It's called a knock sensor.
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Old 05-09-2008, 12:39 PM   #10
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It should be noted that this higher rating seen in Europe is an artifact of a different underlying measuring procedure. In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in the United States, Canada and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90-91 US (R+M)/2, and deliver 98 (RON), 99 or 100 (RON) labeled as Super Unleaded.


Damn, Joe beat me to it while I was looking it up
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
hackerchris, you are a ******* idiot.

There are two "common" octane ratings. Motor Octane (MON), and Research Octane (RON).
I know that, but where I live in Ohio we use R+M/2, and so did Indiana, so how am I retarded? You still proved that I was right that the EU uses higher octane. Even with "differences" in how it is rated, EU octane values are still higher for the reasons I gave.
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hackerchris View Post
the 3 pump gas octane levels in the U.S. are 87,89, 91, and 93
am i the only one that chuckled at this? :-)
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:52 PM   #13
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I cried!
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Old 05-09-2008, 03:34 PM   #14
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again, all computers should come with wikipedia preloaded in the browsers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

and actually there are two kinds of gas at the station. regular and premium. the rest are mixtures of the two. not worth it to have tanks for 89 when it's just half and half 87 and 91.
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Old 05-09-2008, 04:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hackerchris View Post
I know that, but where I live in Ohio we use R+M/2, and so did Indiana, so how am I retarded?
Because you acted like a **** and, while demonstrating that you cannot count to four, answered the OP's question (why gasoline in Europe is advertised as having a higher octane rating) by expressly stating that it had to do with the design of the cars and that there is only one "world-wide" octane rating system, both of which are wrong.

Then you acted like a **** when Torkel and Zabac questioned this.

Then after I pointed out that the perceived difference is due to the RON vs. (R+M)/2 ratings system and that the gasoline itself is actually very similar, you acted like a **** and stated that "where I live in Ohio we use R+M/2, and so did Indiana" despite the fact that both of the two posts directly above your most recent one clearly stated that (R+M)/2 is the measurement system used by pretty much every municipality in the entire North American continent.



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Old 05-09-2008, 04:57 PM   #16
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Joe, did you draw that up today?
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:18 PM   #17
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Me? Naw- I can't draw anywhere near that well. It's a webcomic called XKCD. Probably my favorite comic strip in the whole world, actually. http://www.xkcd.com/
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:20 PM   #18
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So, thanks a lot Joe for explaining. All clear now. I knew it was just too good to be true. Guess I would have to keep to the recommended boost levels the sweet day that I get my own snail.
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Old 05-09-2008, 05:37 PM   #19
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I like that the moderators here crack the whip by calling transgressors "****"
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Old 05-09-2008, 07:24 PM   #20
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Haha. XKCD had a TF2 comic the other day that made me rofl.
Definitely one of my favorite comics too.
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