Give me one good reason to not switch-back to NA on my track car.
 

I was about to put my track car back together when I found a cracked exhaust manifold. Give me a good reason why I should not pull all the turbo shit out, pull the low-compression engine, and swap-in the 11.5:1, 170whp engine and track this car NA.

this forum isn't miatana.net

Because I just bought an NB and need your hotsidde parts even if they are cracked?

I will keep the turbo parts and put them in a daily driver if I change over.

Wouldnt it be a lot slower than anything else on the track?

Negative. The fun and good competition is back in C/D/E.

If you will have fun in C/D/E, go for it Hustler!

I wonder if I'll have enough fun on the track to make-up for the loss in power and lugging that tire trailer with 100lb/ft less torque. I could get the car down to ~2075lb and I really think I'd run the same times.

If you'll have fun at the track Hustler, do it.

The only thing I've heard from you lately is about how terrible tracking is, and how unfun it is.

Go for it. I went the same route with my red car and finally had fun. No studs to worry about, no major heat issues, no problems with brakes.

So your ABSURD mani cracked?

That's it, now I'm convinced that all tube mani's crack over time, no matter what.

All manifolds crack, even cast. I drove the everliving fuck out of that manifold for fouryears, over 200-hours, I'm not complaining.

Yes, you are.

Do it bitch!!!

Track the DD once it has the new motor in, then make your decision.

Ha, we were just talking about this eh.

Sorry to hear about this hustler, I will fix it.

I know you'll take care of me, it's just another pinch in terms of timing and some other, personal things wearing on me.

Do you think you will have to cut-off the flange to do it? I want to fix it, but I'm still leaning toward going NA for a while if not forever on this car. Then, I'll have a street car to daily with the AF stuff. It's been a fun, reliable four years so far, I'm just in a place now where I don't really want to deal with everything that comes with tracking such a powerful car. If I had a truck, trailer, and a house I might have a different opinion.

I tracked it on Thursday with 600 treadwear tires:

Every effort should be used to make sure none of the flanges are moved. or else I'd have to build a jig for your mainfold before hand, I don't have that time, material, money, etc.

From the tiny cellphone pics you sent me, looks pretty simple to fix.

And? How was it? Seems like a simple question to answer. If you liked it, go NA. If not, keep the turbo. You'd probably have what, 30 extra HP over the dd?

Well, this motor is struggling to make 100whp so I shouldn't base an opinion on it. I'm going to do the swap I think, it's not permanent. the AF stuff is not for sale by any means. All the turbo shit is going into a corner for the future.

Yeah for the track a super low power bone stock motor is about as dead nuts reliable as it gets.

Put the ABSURDness onto a daily and floss on suckaz on the street like a boss

170whp NA is not "low power". If I have the money, I may even send a VVT head to Endyne, lol. That could be awesome.

I'm one of the stubborn old farts that thinks that figure is highly inflated and mostly bs.

Show me a basic setup like that put down 170....maybe I'm wrong.

I say get the 170-180whp NA setup and track that for everything it's worth and don't ever compliment it so it knows it's place as a whore.

Big power daily for floss status. I'd love to see your white shit box run 300whp.

Sell 170WHP setup and get Rotrex?

Why sell it? Put a rotrex on it.

No.

Hmmmm . . . . Crusher anyone? With green paint?

Crusher makes 180whp and that is no basic set-up so I'm doubting the 170whp here too.

As for going NA for the track, you're right where I was after I popped my last motor. Fuck all that pain in the ass prep that comes with a high power turbo motor, keep things simple and have fun. Once you get bored with it (which you might not) boost it again.

stuff breaking still pisses you off when you have a truck, trailer, and house. Ask me how i know. TBH, if it were me I'd fix the weld and keep tracking the turbo car. That sounds like the easiest thing here.

I'm curious though, is there something particularly hot about your setup that makes it higher maintenance? you and I know a couple guys that seem to have never had issues with very hard driving on boosted miatas. I'm wondering what Ken and Keith do/did to keep their stuff working. Maybe it did break and they just have the budget that it wasnt a big deal?

In all seriousness, for all you track guys, how do all these stories NOT make you want to go V8? Yes, you gain some weight, but I'd easily give that up for reliability+power.

Bummer on the crack, but don't give up. To me it looks like the biggest stressor you have on this car is still attempting to make a reliable double duty car, being able to comfortably drive it to the track, beat the piss out of it, and drive it back.

Seems like time could be better spent on turning it into a more serious track car and saving pennies for a proper truck/trailer as you mentioned. Every time you spend money on the beater you're bringing it closer and closer to becoming a beater version of the green machine. Keep money, buy truck, DD beater, track green car.

This is all just one man's opinion.

11.5:1 compression, RB header, square-top, knifed crank, MS intake cam, and other stuff I don't know about.

A well prepped high compression VVT NA would be great IMHO. I just wonder how cost effective it is. Crusher levels of power won't be cheap.

You have one of those low-maintenance turbo set-ups, how's it working for you?

Money, speed, weight. I don't want to track a SBC miata.
How is putting a cage in the car going to make manifolds and turbos last longer than 4-years?
I have a one-bedroom apartment with a 1-car garage and don't care to own a racecar, daily, truck, trailer, store all that shit, and still work out of a one-car garage.

Fixed.

The motor is sitting in the garage.

Stop being delusional: if you want an n/a track car by all means build one, but don't kid yourself about basic bolt ons netting 180whp. It takes a fully built motor and tons of trick parts. Otherwise you end up with like 130-140 tops.
Emilio himself admitted in Crushers thread that this was no ordinary run of the mill motor iirc. That it was very 'spensive.
I mean if you want reliability and 180whp just throw a failtrex on there. But I've a feeling that you won't be able to do 130whp after doing 2xx for so long. Torque is addicting. At least to me.

One good reason: maybe you'll start having fun again and stop posting depressing shit that makes me never want to track my car.

I have an 11.5:1 engine with a knifed crank and MS intake cam, square top, RB header, and a tuning god to do the tune, it's going to make more than 150whp. I this engine already made 180whp when RHarris had it in his yellow car and he said the tune wasn't great. If this works and I'm fairly happy, I can send a VVT head to Endyne for magic and possibly make more. I'm at a different place in life right now, making half the money I did when I built the car, I think this is the right way. If it's not, I can swap in the turbo shit for no cost other than sweat.

Fair enough. Can't wait to see numbers and hopefully be proven wrong.

Considering CSP cars have less prep than that and make into the 160's I dont doubt it. Internally stock 99 or VVT plus flat top + tuned length intake + rb header + exaust + tune = 150 wheel all day long.

I just want to clear something up with that motor. I never made 180WHP with it, but I believed it to be possible with a well made purpose built VVT head. I made 155whp with a tune that left a lot on the table. I think that it can be done, but cams, headwork, valves, springs, and the head itself was going to cost $2500+ and I just didn't want to do that at the time.

To do that motor justice, you really need a VVT head and MS3. You will get a huge bump in torque, even though it has a pretty good amount of torque already.

160. 180. Whatever.

If the turbo setup is this frustrating, ditch it. You then have two options. Super or NA. Super is off the table. So go NA. Is a 20WHP-on-the-internet argument going to change how fun the car is to drive with the existing NA setup?

* I would ask (and you have probably already had this conversation) is if a less restricitve turbine might reduce temps and thus increase longevity for the car and your wallet at the expense of a bit of transient response. Your setup is not exactly a T-25 though, so IDK how much is on the table there.

** Water injection? A moderate flow rate could last through a 20 minute session and lower EGTs/increase happiness.

Holy crap I didnt even recognize Hustler without his supercharger avatar on.

My girlfriend made you a new avatar:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1346026273

It's not working out well at all for me lol, that's why i was wondering what those other guys do that keep their cars working.

I ditched a healthy SC setup years ago for N/A and havent looked back. The car is dead nuts reliable and still plenty fast.

Crushers motor is expensive because it does a lot more than just make 170 whp.The torque and mpg it has are beyond what's possible with just bolt-ons.
Just making 170whp isn't that expensive and you can do it on pump gas.

I have read posts on forums from three different continents, all claiming BS on the power we report. It's kinda funny. I post approved dyno's from a national racing organization. Simple facts. I can only guess that the experts have either never tried to build a cost effective N/A motor or maybe tried and failed. The recipe is simple and it works.

m.net post with some cliff notes on N/A builds

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - [NA] Most HP with a Naturally aspirated engine?***Read me! People as this every day!***

Let me get this straight... you cracked a manifold and you are giving up? People are supporting this decision? Seriously??


Blow the sand out of your vagina, zip up your man suit, get that bitch welded up and keep slaying BMWs and Porches.

I'm going to run it the way you sold it, if it makes 150whp, I'm happy. If it makes 130whp, I'm not "happy" but I don't really care either. When I have some time it will get a VVT head and I plan to pick-up MS3 when Reverant makes it available. Whatever it makes with that stuff is whatever it makes.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1346044687
Thanks for selling it to John so he could sell it to me. :makeout:

Will I be severely detonation limited on 91 or 93 octane with this 11.5:1 compression ratio?
I've made 120whp on a 1.6 with bolt-ons and good injectors, 130 on a stock 99. I think when we compare to the 99 engine, the header is good for ~10hp, the square top is good for another 10hp, and then we have the increased compression ratio so 150whp is totally doable, I predict more. I plan to get it on the dyno this weekend if I can get an exhaust made on Friday. I'm getting excited about this.

I suspect that when it comes to the 150whp NA class that either idiots are tuning the cars or owners are sandbagging. I'm a lonely virgin so I will post everything I do on the interweb to make friends and hopefully less the tears.

Holy shit. Is the old Hustler starting to come back?!? :party:

I thought I made a post about that. Basically, Ambien can cause severe, acute depression so I stopped taking it, lol.

This is the kind of stuff that excited me when I built the turbo car. These days, I want to be nationally competitive. I'd like to get into TTD and see what I can do.

Fuck yes! I'm excited to hear about the return of hustler!

And no, I haven't seen you make a post about ambien on here. A search of mt.net of your posts about ambien only return this one.

I thought you guys had 93 in Texas? With a VVT head, there may be a few spots below the torque peak where you might not get quite to MBT before det threshold with 91. Depends on IAT's cam timing and a few other variables. We got 182whp on CA 91 with small race cams, BP4W, mild compression but that motor was on the ragged edge of det, sprint race tune.

We have 93 almost every where. Trey get it up and running but as suggested many times above your going to need that VVT head to fatten up ther area under the curve. So don't freak out but keep your eye out for a deal on one.

Good choice, this will put you in a good class with NASA after a dyno reclass. Your going to have some good fun.

To everyone calling bullshit
1) log on to miata.net
2) advanced search
3) naturally aspirated, Emillio700
4) read noobs

Thanks. I recently tuned a 10:1 VVT car with a 2560r that had so little spark advance I'm certain it will be a valve-burner, it's good to know I won't have that.

93 in Texas, 91 in OK and LA. I'm probably going to tune on 91 this weekend and see what happens. John and I are going to tag-team the car so we expect to go through several tanks of fuel. I'm pulling a tire trailer so I guess I can hook-up the det cans on the way to the track and listen for det after tuning on 93 and filling-up with 91.

The only two rubber hoses left in the car are the fuel-pump feed lines so I could swap those and possibly run E85 too, but that's kind-of a pain in the ass. I like the simplicity of driving across the street for fuel.

On the dyno I'm going to tune it like I do all cars, add fuel until it stops making torque, then add spark.