Handgun Recomendation....
 

So I was never really a pistol fan. Untill a freind got a nice .45 and a .357. And I removed my moms old dishwasher, fortuitously on the same weekend. You can see where that went.

The .357 was awesome, though the .45 was a much better gun overall, due to being much newer.

Looking at hand guns, they dont depreciate all that much if you take care of them. Especially compared to car stuff. So while I was dead certain that I would eventually get a shotgun (I love skeet shooting) I am leaning toward a pistol now.

So my question is this: If you could buy one gun with the following factors in mind:

1) I dont mind 'kick' overly much. People who do are pussies. A medium or small frame .45 is supposedly a hard gun to handle and my novice ass enjoyed it and I was halfway decent with it by the time we were done. I am not going to be engaging in tactical exercises where I need to be a force reconaisance level baddass and shoot groups the size of a silver dollar from 50feet in the dark while under fire. And I will get comfortable with whatever gun I purchase.

2) I would like something that does not cost 5 bucks a round to shoot. Something that uses readily available ammo.

3) A automatic would be nice, the .357 was a revolver, but its nice to have 10+ rounds before having to reload.

4) I would also need this to have some decent power because I do a lot of hiking and camping in bear country.

5) Something economical, as in under 500 bucks-ish. Under 400 would be great.

My thinking goes toward a .357, so that if I just want to shoot cheap ammo I can use .38, and I have .357 if I am going to have a bit more fun or if I am out in the boonies and need to make a big bang or a worst-case a big hole to discourage a bear. But I am not at all set on that.

Any recomendations at all? Any suggestions appreciated, from caliber to brand to style/action type of gun.

Black bears are one thing, but for Grizzlies or brown bears, I'd be uncomfortable with anything less than a .44 magnum. A .45 ACP won't cut it, nor will a .357 (though a hot .357 load out of a rifle barrel might).

So....I think you should consider the possibility that your first pistol will ultimately not be a good choice for bear.

Bears aside, I'd be looking at Glock G21SF and G30SD's, and also at Springfield Armory XD-45's. All of those are .45's. If recoil isn't an issue, then I see no reason to mess around with 9mm. All three are polymer frame, semiautomatic, super reliable, and easy to handle. The G21 is Glock's full size .45, the G30 is the same pistol with a shorter barrel and grip. The SF designation is for "short frame", meaning the grip distance (front to back) is shorter. Many with even large hands find the regular G21 and G30 too big in the grip.

My G30 goes with me every day. 10+1 rounds of .45 230gr Golden Sabers, with another 10 rds in a spare mag.

I would not recommend shooting a bear unless you have a death wish at least with anything less than an Alaskan .50 or a 450 Casaul Both of which are revolvers and any highpower gun you will pay through the nose for ammunition. If your looking for something cheap and fun to shoot look at a 9mm. But unless your willing to spend some cheese don't use one to shoot a bear because he will be very very pissed at you in a very short time/distance

Good to know, thanks!

My chances of encountering a Grizzly are very small, where my chances of coming accross a smaller variety or a lion are very high. The black bears come into town semi-regularly around my home (Colorado Springs) and they get plenty of scraps from tourists in the trails that I am on all the time west of town. Not to be underestimated, but we are talking about animals not much larger than a man. Maybe 300-400 LBs. Right now I have a can of bear mace, but not much faith in it. I would really rather have something that can make a big noise too, as that will be enough with a lot of animals. If it isnt a .357 or .45ACP will be enough IF I am a competent shooter. Which is where getting comfortable comes in.

I dont really need a compact, as the only reason I will get a CCW is so that I can go hiking with it. I wont be carrying it around town etc. So if the grip is OK, its probably good for me. A 6"ish barrel is fine.

.45 ammo is not too pricey as I recall either, being so common. I will check those out.

Do you CCW?

If so, where do you keep the spare magazine? I've been looking for a good IWB solution to carry a spare magazine but haven't really found anything acceptable. About the best solution I've come across so far is something like a small niteize cell phone pouch with magnetic flap..

Sorry for the threadjack..

This will be my next purchase due to the high number of positive reviews and price.

rock island armory (RIA) satin nickel tactical 45

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...calsatin01.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b1...calsatin02.jpg

Bandoleirs. Be the awesome. I would love to just have a nice 12 guage and like 30 rounds on me, but thats going to scare the piss out of someone. Hell, If I saw a guy dressed that way on the trail I would be a bit leery.

"Badges? We dont need no steeenkeeeng badges! HAHAHAHA!"- Best Movie Ever.

That is awesome.

I really wish there were just old beat up 1911s around, but they are all soaked up in the market. I ust looked those up though, thats a really low price!

I need a Ruger LCP.
This thread is going to blow up tomorrow.

edit: I want a crimson trace too. Badass..

I have an XD-9 EXCELLENT gun!

How much does that gun go for?

I shoot better than I drive.
I hope you are kidding about 300-400LB bears. you don't shoot a bear with hand gun anything less than 44 Magnum. even then, I believe it just get them mad. it is more of a noise that scare them away.

for the price range you mentioned, sub $500. you will be missing out on the premium brand, HK, Sig comes to mind. Your best bet would be low end Glock, low end Berreta, Ruger, any revolvers.

revolver is almost always a good choice if budget is low. cheap, powerful (357) and reliable, and in general more accurate. if a round misfires, just pull the trigger again. there is no reliable 1911 in your price range, not even close.

caliber is not as important as you think. 45 is powerful, but I can shoot a 9mm twice as fast. 9mm is plenty cheap. 40sw is a great ammo, probably with most stopping power, up there with 357.

most important thing is just feel of a gun. pick it up, aim it with your eyes closed, open your eye, is it pointed correctly. does it fit your hand well, I have a small hand, most double stack don't fit my hand well. Again, can't emphasize this enough, you have to like the way it feels in your hand.

if it were me hiking in black bear country with $500 budget. it would be a .357 revolver if need to double as CCW.

for CCW. thin (vs. length and height of a gun) is more important, for concealability and comfort.

I used to shoot competitively, and reload my own ammo.

I have to second the idea that a $400-$500 budget is going to be tough to hit. I would highly recommend that you save up a little more and have about $700 to spend. This will open up a far larger range of guns.

Next you need to find a local range that rents pistols and try out a few. Find one that you are comfortable with shooting and then go from there. Do not buy a pistol that you think looks badass or because ammo is available in its caliber. My first pistol was a Glock and after a few trips to the range it came down that it was just not comfortable shooting in my hands. It ended up being a $600 mistake.

So go with what you are comfortable with shooting and do not be afraid to spend a little bit more on it. It will be well worth it in the long run.

If I were to buy another handgun (or could do it over) I would take the above advice....it's very hard to find a good gun in your price range, and the $700 quality guns are exactly that...quality. They are usually more comfortable, dependable, accurate, and better designed for the everyday parts of gun ownership like cleaning and storing (important, consider built-in safeties or a lock box).

That said, take a look at Taurus. I have not been disappointed with my PT111 Millenium Pro 9mm. They make the exact same gun in .40 and .45 as well, although it's a medium frame and the .45 may make it hard to get back on target. I had originally intended to at least get a .40, but had to find one fast before my CC class and this is what the gun store had. I really don't regret, as the proper ammunition (grain and muzzle velocity) can get pretty close to the stopping power of a .45, although their characteristics after hitting your target are debateable. I don't mind spending more on my defense ammo, and range ammo is still cheap.

Looks like they changed the model numbers a bit, but you can find what you like amongst their vast selection of frames, calibers and finishes.

Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

They MSRP just over $400, but look for local shop deals. I think mine was $389 with two mags (12rd cap) thrown in. Accuracy can be better, but they are precise. This means they don't hit exactly where the sights are, but hit the same spot every time. It's good enough for a panic situation, and still fun at the range. Ruger and Smith&Wesson 9mms are much better if you end up being a range rat though, and will get frustrated by not being able to hit the 10 ring when you're on form. Mine doesn't bother me because I bought it to carry, and it's great for that.

Great thing about being single is you can always buy another one later. I have to explain the deficiencies of mine to my wife, sale it, and talk her into another.

Low 400s :)

Thanks for the info folks!

Some time at the range is in order :)

A revolver is fine by me, the extra capacity of an auto is great, then again there are 8 shot .357 revolvers out there. I think Taurus makes one actually. If it comes down to a low quality auto or a relatively high quality revolver I will get the revolver.

With the .357 I was impresed with its ability to go through anything. The dishwasher has decent thickness metal sides all around. One round from the beat up old pawn shop .357 revolver ran parralel to the side for like a foot and still punched a hole at the end of it, which was impressive. None of the .45 rounds did that. I found several inside the washer where as near as I could tell not one .357 was stuck in there. Looking at the .357 round I can see why. It looks like a similar amount of powder to the .45 ACP, but a smaller round. Lookng at a bunch of mag articles last night I saw a ton of comments loving the sig .357, which seems to be what all the .357 autos use.

Good points on the shooting a bear thing. I guess I am underestimating an animal like that. I really wish I could just carry a shotgun. (Did I mention I live shotguns?)

So what about Hi-Points? (Ducks and runs away)

There is absolutely ZERO reason to pick an LCP over the KelTec P3AT. The KelTec is pretty much the same gun except not as heavy, it doesn't have any recalls, and it has a lifetime warranty. Oh, it is cheaper as well and has a larger user base. Now, if you want it to say Ruger on the outside you could probably pay someone to engrave it on there somewhere.


edit: I have a crimson trace on my KelTec. Yes, it is nice.

I don't CCW the G30 -- it goes in my bag (in the car, into work, in my desk). If I'm carrying on my person, it's with one of three pistols:

S&W 38-2 Airweight Bodyguard, carried IWB w/ Barami Hip Grips

Kahr P9 Covert, carried IWB in a Comp-tac MTAC.

Kahr P45, carried IWB in a Crossbreed Supertuck.

In each situation, my Blackberry moves from my normal left front pocket to my right front pocket, and the spare mag (or speed strip for the .38 snub) goes in my left front pocket. Both Kahr's are single-stack, so the width of the spare mags (or speed strip) isn't an issue in my pocket.

Indeed. You don't need an excuse to buy a gun, you can just buy one for fun if you want.

You guys are gun snobs. Lots of good guns under $500. You can get new Glocks for around $500, used glocks in the $350-400 range. If you want a compact 45 the glock 21 is great.

For new guns the S&W Sigma, Taurus and Springfield XD are all well under $500 new. Most in the mid 300 range. Lots of options for calibers and frame sizes and options with these guns.

In semi auto 9mm will be by far the cheapest to shoot unless you really get into it and start loading your own.

Wheel guns the .357 is a great choice. Like you said .38 is cheap ammo to shoot. Wheel guns are also affordable and offer the ultimate in reliability.

Honestly thats a big part of it. I had no idea pistols were so much fun to shoot. You could feel a bit of back blast from the .357. And its a real challenge to be accurate. Maybe one of my primary factors should be fun-to-shoot.

Is this the solution for me? :)

Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

Didn't KelTec sue Ruger for basically ripping off their design? I have a friend who bought a Ruger pistol of some sorts and had all kinds of problems with it, had to send it back to them at least two different times. A google search back when I was researching pistols took me to a thread where multiple people had the same issue with the same pistol, and several got 'lost' in transit coming back from them even!

Now I recall you saying this before. That makes me curious what you do to keep a gun in your desk drawer.. Must be the boss? ;) "See some punkass come try shooting MY office up!"

The .357 is nice because you can use .38 to train yourself to be accurate without spending more on .357 ammo. Just make sure you clean any lead/copper buildup off the cylinder walls before you switch to .357 again. Also keep in mind that some .357 revolvers aren't actually made to shoot full-house .357 ammo all the time. .38's a lot cheaper to plink with, especially lead "range reloads". I'm deaf and had trouble with the sharp crack of .357 inside an indoor shooting range (where the shockwave rolling downrange was actually visible).

And do not discount the effects of recoil - the "pussy factor" is a myth, it affects everyone to varying degrees. If you find yourself having trouble with a certain load/gun, do what you can to reduce the effects of recoil, or you will regret it in the long run (bad habits such as flinching, jerking, etc.)

All-steel, full-size .45s are fantastic. Smaller, lighter .45s kick more obviously, but if you have the arm meat to dampen it enough, good deal.

However, there isn't actually as much overall difference in the "stopping power" between most of the common defensive pistol rounds until you get to the upper echelon (super-heavy bullets, such as 200+gr. .357, 255gr .45 Super, etc.) so I just use a 9mm CZ-75B SA with 124gr. +P and shoot all day.

And for those who just need more:

Buffalo Bore Ammunition | Strictly Big Bore - Strictly Business
Doubletapammo Shop

Which holster do you like better the MTAC or Supertuck? I have a Supertuck for my ppks and it is an amazing holster. I would highly recomend a supertuck for anyone looking for an IWB holster.

300 grain doing mach 1 200 yards out in a .48 caliber round. Now thats a good plinking gun!:brain:

I thought the LCP was cheaper than the KelTec. Well I got some time before I buy.
My friend actually has a P3AT but I've never had a chance to go shooting with them.

I opted for the P32 vs P3AT. The 380 ammo is more expensive (and extremely hard to find the last time I checked - might be different now) than the 32 and there are a few differences in the gun. The 32 has a last shot slide lock and holds one more round. Since they are both the same size Keltec cut a few things out when making the P3AT (slide lock) and the gun is a little more buggy from what I have heard. I carry my P32 with me everywhere I go. The light weight makes it hard to tell it is even in your pocket. I have one, my wife has one, my friend has one, my dad has one. We are all big fans...

I work in retail...disgruntled bookshoppers? No, really, I just carry it with me every day for the same reason I always wear my seatbelt.

The MTAC and Supertuck are both good holsters and similar in design. The MTAC is finished better, higher overall quality, and has the advantage of interchangeable kydex bodies for different pistols. The Supertuck is slightly thinner, comfier, and a little more secure on the belt (due to the metal belt clip design). Both are excellent, but if I had to pick I'd go with the Supertuck -- the thinness, comfort, and security are more important than the quality of the leather or stitching to me.

Nope. Still hard as hell to find. :vash:

Have a Taurus 24/7 Pro Compact that is an amazing gun, i'd recommend shooting one.

If you're willing to buy good the first time, i've since moved to the Springfield Armory EMP. Just... amazing. Awesome. Perfection.

Of course, i have small hands and that really limits my choices, so go with what suits you, but the above rock.

This got me a ton of good info, thanks people. I think I will take a look at some revolvers. I like automatics, but honestly I dont need the ammo capacity and I see a lot of quality revolvers available in my price range. That Springfeild XD is also interesting.

Walther P99. I be gettin a used one soon from my uncle
Wife get Walther P22... she thinks its cute in pink.
http://homepage.mac.com/nexyjo/p22pink400.jpg


I really want is a Sig Sauer P228 tho... those are nice, but really expensive.

Ruger GP-100 is a good one to check out.

The first rule of guns is to have one.

The second rule of guns is to have it always work.

The budget you gave plus the first rule of guns has revolver written all over it.
The intended use as a hiking/camping/falling in a creek/getting it full of dust and sand/protection from 300-400lb bears plus the second rule of guns has revolver written all over it.

A few well placed rounds of .357 with a hot load will be substantial enough to defend yourself against medium bears, elks in rut, and big cats. It will fire and cycle when dirty. It will fire and cycle when full of pocket lint. It will even fire when you are surprised by a ferocious animal and forget to switch off the safety (because there isn't one). It is no coincidence that hunting handguns are revolvers.

If you don't trust yourself to keep it oiled after exposure to moisture, buy it in stainless. I would buy the six inch barrel if you intend on carrying it open on a belt holster and the four inch barrel if you intend to conceal it under your clothing. Buy them with the compensator ported barrel if your budget allows.

I have a medium frame Taurus and a small frame Taurus and have had them for over a decade. They have proven to be reliable, well crafted, accurate, and cost effective.

The ability to have the massive power of the .357 Magnum and to be able to practice with economical .38 Special rounds is a tremendous benefit that has no parallel in the .45 Auto weapons.

I recommend one of the following:

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/66SS6.jpg
Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

http://www.taurususa.com/images/imagesMain/66SS4.jpg
Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

EDIT: I lived in Colo Sprgs for a couple of years and hiked and camped in those mountains. I climbed Pike's Peak from Manitou Springs and back over the course of three days. Enjoy the summer when it finally comes!

BTW-The Ruger GP-100 is a also a very nice revolver, as b0ne pointed out, but a bit more money.

I want the Sig 238 as a pocket gun! The Ruger lcp and Taurus tcp are cheaper alternatives for pocket guns.

Have to 2nd Sixshooter though. Wheel guns are tops for ease of use and reliability. A lot of the facination with semi's is just the sexy factor.

I love my ruger sr9. I have flawlessly shot 400+ rounds through mine without any issues. I also own and carry a Walther p22 everynow and then. The Walther p22 gave me a lot of issues until I cleaned it well and lubricated the right spots. I have owend Glocks, S&W, Taurus, Sig's, Springfield Armory, and Kimber. I carry my sr9 normally though. Car and concealed.

Here is some fun, a pair of XD-9's with 30 round clips.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...l30round9s.jpg

Clips. :facepalm: :noob:

+1
I hate that shit!

I LOVE my P22. I bet I've put 10,000 round through the thing...

You can get a glock 38 brand new for under 400$. It shoots the 45 GAP. Same as the ACP but shorter cartridge . I dont know if you have seen some of the torture tests but this gun will fire evertime even if you drop it in the mud, sand, water, dirt, piss, throw it at the bear then run and shoot him after. People have shot 15000 rounds without cleaning or oiling and the only part compromised is the spring guide which is only 20$. Ultimate reliability i would say glock. You could also get the glock 20 which shoots a 10mm bullet. If your trying to fend off bears your better off with a big ole' can of bear mace or a shotgun with a hot slug. BTW i carry a Glock 26 and enjoy it.

Never understood why this bothers people so much. Everyone knows what he means. Why does it matter that much? You guys are like the nazi Starbucks girl who when I ask her for a small coffee says "oh you mean the tall" and I look right back and say a small coffee please.

I wouldn't invest in anything that shoots .45 GAP. Not as readily or cheaply available as .45 ACP, and its long term future is unsure.

I would have have punched her in the ----!

I guess it is the same as calling a ship a boat in the Navy (or a rifle a gun). It really doesn't bug me, I just like feeling that I am superior to everyone else. <G>

What kills me is when a gun/ammo catalog calls them clips. Christ, if you sell them just call them the correct name.

http://i32.tinypic.com/11h5mw0.jpg

Sorry if this is a repost, but does anyone here have experience with Baby Eagle .45's? (Magnum Reseach/IMI or replicas)

I believe the MR/IMI 941 "Baby Eagle" might fit your requirements if you were looking for a powerful, semicompact/light auto starting around $500.

http://www.dreadgazebo.com/gunporn/w...jericho941.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3508/...cb629dbb6c.jpg

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...ducts_id/53625

Baby Eagle's are based on the CZ handgun design. Very strong, very high quality, very reliable. Trigger kinda sucks....long, somewhat heavy DA/SA design. Accuracy ranges from very good to average. All-metal, so heavier than a comparable Glock or XD.

Not a bad pistol at all, but I'd much rather a polymer framed striker-fired pistol.

Oh yeah, the slide design on the CZ/Baby Eagles kind of sucks...poor ergonomics. The exposed part of the slide is very short compared to a more tradition design where the frame doesn't extend up on both sides of the slide, making manually racking the slide more difficult than it needs to be (especially with wet, muddy, or cold fingers).

OP! this is what you need! :giggle:

http://conspiracyx0.tripod.com/weapons2/454B.gif

this is a big fuckin pistol! my girlfriends brother has one and let me fire it off at a gun range, and holy shit that motherfucker packs a punch! haha

on a side note a friend of mine has a P22 and he has let me shoot it, ill probly be getting one of those to carry around. i dont need anything big, just something to get the point across and to have fun with at the range without spending a fortune!

The sweetest pistol I have ever shot was a Kimber 1911 (I think it was something like an American Eagle model - something like that). Probably in the $1000-$1500 range BUT when you shot it you could feel how expensive it was. I put 3 shots in a quarter sized hole at 10 yards the first time I fired the gun. It was like shooting a stick of butter!

My local gunsmith specializes in AR-15's and 1911's. He has tried many times to get me to let him build me a nice 1911. I just can not justify they $1200 I would end up spending on it right now.

You may want to consider that most states will not allow you to carry a semi auto pistol in wilderness areas. Autos are for protection against people, and if you are stopped by a wildlife officer, you can get in trouble. Most people I know that carry bear protection side arms, use either a 357 or 44. Also, you may not be allowed to carry anything with a barrel that is less than 6 inches in length. A longer hand gun would be easier to shoot, and it is not like you are trying to conceal it from an animal. If a wildlife officer thinks you are trying to conceal a weapon in the wilderness, they automatically think you are up to know good.

The "tall" is the smallest they offer, and the grande, which also sounds big, is in the middle. Then Venti, whatever the fuck that means if the big one. They go out of their way to confuse me every time I place an order.

a friend of mine has one of these but black

Attachment 199136

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Tauru...e/DSC00279.jpg

I have never heard of a single instance of any laws concerning anything you posted. I am not trying to argue but do you have proof of even one point you made above?

It is not allowed in Florida. Just check your local hunting regulations.

This would be an issue on some public land or wildlife management areas, not private land.

What is not allowed? Do you have a link to the statute?

It used to be illigel to carry a weapon on Federal or State parks in Texas recently that law has changed in favor of carrying.

I am afraid that I do not. I saw it in a publication a few years back, which was put out by a Florida based wildlife regulatory agency.

I think it would be a good idea for the OP to check the state that he plans to use his firearm for the purpose of protection from dangerous wildlife.