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Old 05-17-2009, 11:32 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by the_man View Post
but I somehow doubt that it'd be too significant or we'd see fuel heating/cooling devices on more racing cars and whatnot. Hell, if it was that easy/cheap to increase performance, we'd see it on street cars.
It is my understanding actually that all F1 cars heat their fuel to aid in atomization. They use Toluene though which doesn't vaporize as well at the same temperature as gasoline.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:54 AM   #22
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The toulene is exactly why the heat it. In my 67 chevy i have found some decent gains almost as much from cold fuel as cold air. Granted this is a carbed V8 but still.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:06 AM   #23
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I would think there might be a benefit of cooling down the Intake Air Temp a bit with colder fuel.

Either way, fuel cooling is pretty easy, but I just don't think there is any hard evidence it helps. In diesels yes, but it is usually to cool the fuel going back to the tank.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:02 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
It is my understanding actually that all F1 cars heat their fuel to aid in atomization. They use Toluene though which doesn't vaporize as well at the same temperature as gasoline.
Huh? Are you sure? I think it is the opposite. They are trying to keep the fuel as cool as possible, but in the rules there is a minimum allowed temperature. So they have to be careful not to run cooler than the limit. It is also forbidden by the rules to run fuel coolers.

Quote from the Formula 1 rules:

6.5.4 No fuel on board the car may be more than ten degrees centigrade below ambient temperature.

6.5.5 The use of any device on board the car to decrease the temperature of the fuel is forbidden


Last edited by j_man; 05-18-2009 at 03:16 AM.
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Old 05-18-2009, 03:13 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Hyper
I am working on a new fuel cooling concept and I need to gather all the info I can get for this project. . If I am not clear, please let me know, my english sucks.

I need to know what is the fuel pressure before the dampener and after the dampener and what would be the best location to install a fuel pressure gauge, my gauge goes all the way to 100psi. I also need to know more details on the OEM pulsation dampener, thanks.

I rather keep the project undisclosed to the forum until I do some testing of the concept on 1st Florida Dyno day, June 6th. Are you coming?
Maybe he is trying to install a dampener to dampen his entire car with fuel and set it on fire.
NB Miatas stock have fuel damper, not dampener.


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Old 05-18-2009, 05:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by j_man View Post
Huh? Are you sure? I think it is the opposite. They are trying to keep the fuel as cool as possible, but in the rules there is a minimum allowed temperature. So they have to be careful not to run cooler than the limit. It is also forbidden by the rules to run fuel coolers.

Quote from the Formula 1 rules:

6.5.4 No fuel on board the car may be more than ten degrees centigrade below ambient temperature.

6.5.5 The use of any device on board the car to decrease the temperature of the fuel is forbidden
I thought F1 cooled fuel to increase tank capacity. Cooler fuel means it's slightly denser, means you can get more in the tank and have better tactical options.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:23 PM   #27
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[QUOTE=the_man;409469]I've heard arguments made for both heating and cooling of fuel. I have never, however, heard any hard numbers one way or the other wherein the temperature of the fuel was correlated to HP or whatever, without any confounding variables messing up the deal. Maybe one way or the other makes a difference, maybe it doesn't, but I somehow doubt that it'd be too significant or we'd see fuel heating/cooling devices on more racing cars and whatnot. Hell, if it was that easy/cheap to increase performance, we'd see it on street cars.
QUOTE]

My Mercedes 190E 16V runs the fuel supply into a manifold that surrounds the A/C suction line, so when the A/C is running it cools the fuel down.
Not sure what their end goal was in doing it though.
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:38 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Fidgitk View Post

My Mercedes 190E 16V runs the fuel supply into a manifold that surrounds the A/C suction line, so when the A/C is running it cools the fuel down.
Not sure what their end goal was in doing it though.
And that is the problem with cooling it with the A/C. Any benefits or power gains from cooler fuel is lost when the compressor kicks on. You mentioned that your 190E has it. IIRC, Mercedes abandoned that system a long time ago.
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Old 05-18-2009, 02:12 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neogenesis2004 View Post
It is my understanding actually that all F1 cars heat their fuel to aid in atomization. They use Toluene though which doesn't vaporize as well at the same temperature as gasoline.


I don't think they've used toluene since the 80's.
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Old 05-18-2009, 05:47 PM   #30
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Why not use what's already available?

Mr. Gasket Cool Can - JEGS

Fuel Coolers at Flex-a-lite Consolidated

I've only seen them on Diesel's or Drag cars, why the need on a DD?
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:20 AM   #31
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Apparently I was incorrect in an assumption I made about the fuel flow in the '99, specifically the location where the fuel hit the regulator.

A much clearer set of images found in the parts catalog shows me that hte actual flow is from the pump, out to the fuel filter, then at the filter there is a tee, with one end feeding the rail and the other going back into the tank and hitting the FPR. This makes sense as you need to account for pressure drop across the filter, which I hadn't considered previously.

Here's a drawing I pieced together showing the complete system:
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:12 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostSoulMiata View Post
Why not use what's already available?
Because Hyper is working on a "fuel cooler concept" which is sooo much cooler (no pun intended) then just ordering something from the web!!

Personally, I think we should encourage that the brilliant entrepreneur SERerformance (Mr high compression pistons, remember?) and engineering genius Hyper get together. With those two master minds joining force, the potential for true epic failure (and amusement for us all) is nothing less then enormous.
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:10 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Apparently I was incorrect in an assumption I made about the fuel flow in the '99, specifically the location where the fuel hit the regulator.

A much clearer set of images found in the parts catalog shows me that hte actual flow is from the pump, out to the fuel filter, then at the filter there is a tee, with one end feeding the rail and the other going back into the tank and hitting the FPR. This makes sense as you need to account for pressure drop across the filter, which I hadn't considered previously.

Here's a drawing I pieced together showing the complete system:
so in theory you could run an external FPR between the filter and dump and bypass the stock one?
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:33 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
so in theory you could run an external FPR between the filter and dump and bypass the stock one?
I believe Bell does something similar to this.
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