i this corner begi, and this corner FM, and this corner ffs
 

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=235851

nice cat fight...meow.

I was reading that. I wonder what "other board" fm is trying to mention in some of thier other post that says negative comments about them:rly: :gtfo:

No shit...... Just like school girls

I wouldn't be surprised if it were this one.

I don't think anyone here has a vendetta for FM.

Vendetta? Probably not. They certainly do get their fair share of bashing.

Begi seems to be staying out of that pissing match. Smart move on their part.

I happen to like FM, by the way. I just don't like spending the money they're asking. I spent what a Voodoo kit costs on my setup, but I got a radiator, a clutch, and a standalone ECU in the deal as well - and I bought 95% of my parts brand spanking new.

I'm honoured that someone as AWESEOME as FM would mention us indirectly :rolleyes:

Royalty fees? :bigtu:

I guess that is the problem when the vendors come in and talk up their products. They will often make it sound like they have the best solution, leaving those reading the posts wondering what the truth really is. :nono:

I like FM too they have pwnage customer service and are really nice on the phone but their prices are like dressing up in drag and going to prison for the weekend... it fucking hurts. As for that pissing match going to have to say FFS is cleaning the floor.

Its interesting that no one has any shots for BEGi. Hopefully I made the right decision.

...my turbo shit should be here any day now. :)

what really irritates me are forums that only allow discussion on products from advertisers and not on other companies, and they'll censor negative experiences about the vendors.

You got it! I think Tom has made some good points on that thread. It's kinda why I don't post on Mnet anymore.

Tom is uninformed (ignorant) and comes off like a punk taking cheap shots and ending the post with a pleasantry. "Fuck your mother, but enjoy your weekend!"

There's not a doubt in my mind that these/his non intercooled 200hp+ setups with only a single extra injector have insufficeintly cooled and/or fueled the charge leading to engine death. It's amazing how stubborn Tom is when everyone with experience tells him what a bad idea it is.

SC guys know jack shit about EM. Look at how many of these guys with JRSCs blow up their motors at 140hp.

Ben

they banned my account for calling various mods fuckheads :dunno:

I mean, it's true so..

PC Pro seems to be his answer for everthing too.....

If you think that's true, you need to re-read his posts. The PC Pro is the perfect solution for people that are buying the Coldside kits. Which is to say that his customers are not like Ben (for example) who crave more control over every aspect of EM.

One of the "mottos" of FFS is "install, turn key and drive". Even Ben will admit that a Stand Alone is anything but install and drive.

Also, when FM (or Keith) says stupid shit like, "Superchargers and piggybacks don't work all that well together on 2001-05 cars. It's not a combination we recommend", even Corky commented on that.

Just because THEY couldn't get a SC and a PB to work together. Gee, I wonder how FFS got a PB to work so well on the 05 that he got the CARB with it?

Then Keith says this:

"There is a difference between CARB certification and driveability, but it certainly is a nice option to have and wave around."

As if it was so fucking easy to get past CARB.

Guess what? Tom spent over $10,000 just on the CARB FEES! Then there's all the dyno testing and tuning he did. The guys at Arizona Dyno Chip where he dynos all of the FFS cars joke that their kids are going to Harvard because of Tom. That's no fucking joke.

If you were the one doing all this work and some asshat came along and said what Keith said, you'd be pissed too.

Dude you still don't get it. We'll see what happens with these 1.6 kits he's got coming out. No intercooler, no timing control, no knock sensor.

If you think I (for example) wouldn't prefer to plug in, turn key, and drive, without any tuning or tweaking you're sooo wrong. Nobody "wants" to tune. They "have" to tune. I'm not a fucking monkey mesmorized by flashy lights and chrome buttons. I understand that I've added 150 hp to a 100 hp motor -- so there are many things to be compensated for. I'd rather have chanted a voodoo spell, sacrificed a goat, or just plugged in a magic black box.

Yes, I agree that Keith said something stupid--and it was a cheap shot. But take it in context too. He also said that there is a lot more to tuning a car to run right than the A/F ratio. He's right! Tom still has A LOT to learn about engine management and tuning. While Tom may have wanted to counter attack FM personally and publicly, it's not professional to do so. Attacking each other just makes them look like asses. I run a business... and when a competitor tries to flame me, I take the higher path with my clients. Always. I let my work, my long list of satisfied clients, my reputation speak for me. As should Tom. There's never a need to disparage others.

Shame FFS and FM didn't get along. The FFS blower kit with FM's Hdra would have been steller, and would not have been too much more costly for the customer. Who would have still received tons of support from both companies.


It's awesome that FFS got their vehicle through the CARB process. Since they don't have any competition, I'm sure they are already in the green. I'd be interested to know how many of the kits he's sold have gone to CA. IIRC, he said he's sold ~100 kits.

Ben

Ben,

People said the same thing about my car when I first started testing stuff for Tom - no timing, no IC, no knock control. I still don't have any of that. Though with me wanting to go up another pulley size, I'll be testing his brand new timing control card soon.

Tom also told me he sold about 100 kits as well. That's pretty good for only about a year of being in business.

The man had a $100 Million business. I think he knows what he's doing.

You're also running the aquamist now, and have a knock sensor.

IMO, there are far better solutions for the NA, that will be just as easy/difficult to set up, in the same price range or less. Anyone who goes with a PCPro over a EMB in an NA is INSANE. And a solution that removes the AFM such as EMU or MSPNP (again same appx cost as PCPro) is leaving a shit ton of power and SAFETY on the table.

I still wish you success with the new timing piggy. I hope Tom does well with his SC kits. He took a big gamble and deserves success. But also hope for his sake, and the sake of his clients, that he matures up a bit.

The truth always lies somewhere in between.

Truth, full engine management is better than a piggyback
Truth, you can make a lot of power with a piggyback given enough octane and some smarts.
Truth, you can run safely without a knock sensor.
Truth, FM has boutique pricing and service.
Truth, some of us supercharged guys actually do know what we are doing.
Truth, on a 1.8 you can make 200+ RWHP without intercooling and without blowing it up. (I used a Haltech though.)

Mark

At 5 psi no less.
I like Tom he has a good product, a decent price and stellar service. It is a shame he can't punch keith in the nose for the comments made but oh well. Tom can make up for it by sending him a yo yo and selling 100+ kits agian this year.

i enjoy the flyinmiata site, just never had the need (money) to buy any of their fancy shit... but i would love to have a custom engine from them :yippee:

Tom HAD a customer engine from FM. He sold it. It wasn't all that apparently.

I also can't afford their "boutique" prices either. (good one Mark). lol

just the thought of me having a shaved and lightened crank gets me excited

then go to the local machine shop they can do that just as well as fm if not better.

Wow JMAN just posted some harsh responses to Tom. Apprently not what everything Tom said was gosspil. I cant wait for keith to jump back into this tommorow

According to Tom, the reason he sold it was because he realized he didn't want more than ~200rwhp, so it was a waste of an engine.

I certainly wouldn't say "it [the FM built engine] wasn't all that" just because Tom sold it due to not needing the build strength for his power goals.

Since I wasn't there, nor was anyone else but Tom and jmann, why would you believe one over the other?

Let's ask ourselves a question. If you are buying something like a turbo or a SC and you are not a complete newb like jmann says he is not, where does the responsibility lie if anything goes wrong with your car?

This is the problem I have with (jmann) and FM. It seems to me that when a FM customer's car blows up, it's never FM's fault. Whereas whenever someone has a problem with a FFS kit, it's ALWAYS Tom's fault.

BTW, did you guys catch the part about where Tom paid for the dyno time on that California customer? I'm sure he paid for jmann's dyno time too. He also paid for the dyno time at the FFS dyno day. That alone was $1000 easy.

Jmann went through TWO engines! He went on the track even when he knew his car wasn't running right.

Who's responsibility is it?

Sounds like that FFS kit is tuned to the ragged edge to me. drama

nah i dont like ecool as the standalone for my money i would WI that bitch, Jman took a car that was not running perfectly to the track that is his misfortune if i am blowing oil/snap crackle popping i dont go to the track or the dyno i figure out what is wrong, maybe his KAS was out of place causing overly advanced timming, maybe his exhaust was to restrictive causing to much PSI and inturn to much heat, maybe his fuel system wasn't up to par. He wont admit fault on not maintaining the car or at least having tom look at the stuff. For my money if i buy a SC it will be from FFS unless i can find a deal somewhere.

ya i bet jman would have not had any problems if he had been more knowlegable about the basics of preventative maintenance of a supercharged vehicle

The most informative bit of information I've gathered from that thread...

Corky is the MAN. He saw the catfight coming and stepped out of the way. He just let his competitors bash each other.

I'm not going to say what Tom told jmann is true or not since I wasn't there, BUT, Tom has told ME on several occasions when something was not a good idea for my car. For example, going up to a 130mm pulley from my current 115mm.

I'm sure that had something to do with it. However, the fact that a built engine also goes through a lot of oil for street driving had something to do with it as well. Also, I think he wanted to use his coldside on a STOCK engine too.

Okay, but the fact that a built engine with forged pistons might go through more oil than a stock engine should not end up as a slight toward FM, as any built engine could exhibit this characteristic.

Hence my previous comment.

That wasn't a slight toward FM. That was a slight toward a built engine that was purchased from FM.

So you're saying the above is not a slight toward FM?:confused:

Not so much that he is the Man, but rather he is a Man.

Mark

god I hope my motor and tune turn out to last a while.

I don't see how different components that produce the same dynamic on a engine can cause a contrary result...unless the supercharger unit is blowing the oil.

People should be asking you the same thing. Your worship of this Tom guy is growing old and is honestly a little pathetic.

Big fucking deal. So he like to throw around money, doen't give him any credibility. One could speculate about why he does it, but I won't. Are you really impressed by such bullshit?

perhaps the load on the crankshaft (via the pulley for the SC) has something to do with it? Just a thought

Corky does tend to throw shit out there then disappear though. Why would Corky stick around for an EM debate? It's hardly his strong suit. If it was he wouldn't have picked Houdini (I mean Shiv) for his engine management.

Running a piggyback for 6 months on a few blowers is hardly proof that piggybacks work well with blowers. I wonder how many SC/piggy combo's he's sold?

Frank

Tom? He's sold a TON of them. And he said only 1 client went their own route with engine management.

Luckily it appears that few of his clients actually track their cars, or I think we'd be seeing more blown engine events.

We'll see what happens now that he's going after the no knock sensor crowd.