The votes are in:
Non-OEM turbo under race conditions: welding or die!
http://www.turbo240sx.ca/images/newturbomounted.jpg

http://www.turbo240sx.ca/images/turbowelded.JPG

http://i43.tinypic.com/r91rgw.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/295z3ia.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/34rf8ev.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/e0plwo.jpg

unfortunately there is no way I will get even a cut-down allen wrench in my turbine housing to tighten it down, and no box-wrench will work either. I'm going to try stage 8, brb.

eureka!
great scott! ive got it.

i remember seeing this along time ago, wouldnt this work!!!


http://www.panducky.tv/composimo/spa...d/DSC_3094.JPG

That'll keep the plate tight onto the manifold, but a weld will do the same thing, and the nuts will still back off those bolts.

i think the issue we are trying to fix is the studs. not the nuts

oh and i dont think welding it is a good idea, seems like a jimmy-rig.
what if ur turbo fails? what if u want to upgrade? u need to replace everything.

Or you just grind the welds down, replace, re-weld.

What about running bolts, drilling a hole through the manifold to pin it in place?

that or weld the studs in the manifold.

Not an option for cast log style BEGI or FM mfs. Plus bolts/nuts tend to loosen more than stud/nuts. There is a reason they use studs.

I would use safety wire on bolts before I did that. With safety wire, the bolt can be re-torqued if need be. Also much easier to remove the turbo.

Not really. Making it so that the nuts don't come off isn't so hard. The hard part is making sure the studs don't come out of the manifold. It's also easy to make the studs not twist out, but once some of you actually drive hard, you will find that the studs just come straight out of the manifold, no twisting or anything. Simply shearing the threads off of the stud.

:bowrofl: :beer: /thread

Studs shear, you retighten, they shear more and finally break loose. Yes, exactly that will happen with bolts that go through too. Doesn't matter that we can fix the nut or the stud. We need to fix both at the same time. Thus tack weld nut to stud and nut to turbo and turbo to mani. I am going to have this done soon.

I did not have problems with self-clinching nuts coming loose from the studs. So I would think that tack-welding the studs in place would be enough. Bend-tab nut plates and safety wire could be used on the nuts for extra insurance. That way it can still be disassembled without grinding.

That's what I'm saying. Because we are asking our flange studs/bolts to do more than just clamp the turbo down. Our problems come from a variety of side loads, vibrations, heat, improper sized holes, wrong material, improper torquing, poorly supported exhaust system, excessive motor twist, ect. I think 8 and even 10mm are just too small for what we are asking them to do.

If you are having issues with the threads shearing off the stud you likely need more thread area. Increasing the diameter, pitch, alloy and length may resolve your issue.

Of course there is the possibility that there is just too much going on and welding the turbo to the manifold is the final solution, but I think most of us would like to avoid that.

Someone has to start calling FM, Begi and M-Tuned every day about switching their stuff to V-bands

Problem with that is then you can no longer use cheap turbos... have to buy a brand new $1200 turbo. But yes, v-bands are nice.

I talked to FM about this on Sunday. They said they considered it because its a good idea, but they chose backward compatibility. If I had known what I know now, 2 years ago, I'd have v-bands and a tubular manifold.

Well, talked to ya Friday, but wanted to post here and just say "I love it when a plan comes together!"
Glad it's all you'd thought it would be and then some.
Now we just need to get mine boosted and I'll be in the same boat. I'm to the point, where I just don't think there's much left in my car where it stands now.

I feel tack welding is a bit more Miata-ish than V-Bands. V-Bands in an high spec race car yes, in a $3k Miata, no.

can you see this vid?


This was a buddy behind me in a 230whp car on r-comps. Its our first session of the day on my first track day in two years, so bring the hate.

HA that is me in the green NB from 2:50 to 3:50. I like the black puff of smoke leaving the Wagon Wheel.

If anyone is wondering WTF, I had the radio on (antenna up) because I was listening to the motor with the electric det can. I need to put a power antenna defeat switch on that damn thing.

Hustler,
Your right brake light is out.

Hustler: next time focus on using the entire track. You weren't really hitting your apexes and weren't necessarily tracking out as far as you could have been.
Also looks like your steering input could be smoother, but that's hard to tell from the car behind.

Considering by the time the HR-gonks have me in the system, I complete a pay-period and finally see a check, it won't be until July before I regain a positive cash flow.

First step will be a new fuel pump and time at the dyno. Second will be finding a hardtop. Then we'll see about some track time...

(And I still need (want) to make another visit to the Texas Mile!)

- L

i know this. Like I said, you just saw my first 3-laps in 2-years, in a totally different car, with lots of other drama. I wish I had a vid of the last session. I also spent the majority of that session looking at the dials in obsessive paranoia. There was a fucking laundry list of things that could have been better on those laps. I just wanted to get a feel for the car, and see how much throttle I could use in each gear/corner.

At the end of the day I was really starting to cook and get back on the horse.

Looks busy. But I suppose doubling the power might give you less time to get it done. ;)

nice buttsexing Hustler, I had no idea you were such a fan.

Although I'd agree with the others, that you're not hitting the apexi, I admit that I did the exact same thing on my first turbo'd track day though. With the added power (aka turn in speed) suddenly the tires didn't have the grip to get me to the inside of the track. The only reason I might have done better was my last NA day and my first turbo day were only a few months apart.

Kudos again on a successful day, looks like an absolute riot.

Holy shit I just saw this thread.

Hustler. Congrats man!

It's Hustler! Of course he's a fan!

Here in the NW it's a banner day when we can get two FI Miata on the track the same day! Damn, you TX and Cali guys get to have all the fun. I gotta make it down to a CA get together.

edit: Try more than tripling the power and torque.
once I finally relaxed and stopped forcing the car, it became really easy to drive and much faster. Its one thing to add more power, but the addition of brakes, rubber, and suspension changed everything from braking points to apex/turn-in/track-out/steering angle/weight transfer (I could feel the body twisting when I rolled into boost on the out-lap). I probably would have been faster if we painted the car pink and told me it was a different car because nothing crossed over. The suspension was the biggest difference. The car is soooo much more relaxed and I never got close to the limits going from GC/Bilstein to the Flex w/ real spring rates. Everything was counter-intuitive for the first 3-sessions of the day...it felt like the tires grew and inch and I was driving a cadilac on the last session.

I'm leading the train at 1:40, working on lines, chilled out and learning to drive the car.

I found the line later in the day. The instructor owned/driven yellow car is an fm2 driven by, the blue car is a 230whp TDR product. Its crazy that I'm going that fast in the vid; I felt like I was just putting around.

I get your leap. I went from a showroom stock 91 Miata to a 96 Viper GTS. I quickly realized that the though the speed/power difference was huge, the cornering difference wasn't. That meant a lot learning with the brakes to get the Viper down to a cornering speed that would allow to get on the throttle rather than spend the entire turn trying to recover from a hot entry into the turn. And I think that's what I see in the videos above. Usually why it's hard to hit the apex.

I remember that cone in the left-hander at Rattlesnake. I ran right over that damn thing the first time I came around the corner; someone else had already knocked it onto the track. Each time I came around it had moved again (been hit) LOL.

I want to get some track tires and come back to kick some butt. No more wave-arounds :fawk: but maybe I'll give you a reach-around :ky:

Hustler,

Hint for next time. Get behind a VERY good driver/instructor in a lesser car. Something you know you can hang with. Plant yourself behind them and relearn the lines, braking points, etc. I always pick up something when I do that. Someone in a less powerful car is trying to carry more momentum. Saves brakes and smooths out the driving. Once you have the line down and are driving smooth start rolling on the power.

You could also forget all that, drive like a maniac and learn a bunch about of recovery skills!

FI is a blast at the track. I went from a terminal speed at PIR of 90/95 mph front and back straight to 124/122. The guys doing 140 in the GT3's aren't impressed but a 30mph increase sure changes everything when it comes to brakes, turn in and cornering speeds.

/\ Yep, if I had been there, that would've been me. I run 1:30's with a lowly 105 HP. ;)

Stein, every single setup I've had on this car stays intact when you are just street driving BEGi's stupid "don't fit" M10 nuts, copper lockers, normal nylocks, etc.

Take it on track, and off they come.

my car is only pushing 190ish whp, 205max. :mad:

your welcome for the vid

What were you using for tires? And, what did you mumble when you came up behind me in the rattlesnake? It is like that scene in Lost In Translation where one wants to know WTF Bill Murray said to Scarlet Johannsen :)

http://popwatch.ew.com/photos/uncate...2/14/lit_l.jpg

I think he said "You are the hottest thing God ever created, and I want to bone you mercilessly when we get back to the States, OK?"

What oil temps/water temps were you seeing. Any overheating?

What did you end up liking your tire pressure at, and where the shit are your 6uls?

I hope to test that theory in a month!

205/50/15 ra1 and no clue, i bitch at my self for taking shitty lines. but if i was fallowing you it might have been gtfo my way with your shitty street tires :loser:

if he was talking to Scarlet Johannsen, that's not what he said. Had it been it would have been more along the topic lines of: flabby, pale, out of shape, caterpillar lips....

It was why are you braking retard =D

Yeah OK that is more like it LOL

Anyone that would kick Scarlett out of bed is a retard IMO.