I Need A Badass Stereo System
 

Anyone hear just have to have a kickass sound system? I'm not talking about car audio, I'm talking about home stereo systems. Before Hurricane Katrina, I had a Pair of Cerwin Vega DX-9's in the 4 ohm version. These were 15" woofers, 6.5" drivers, and liquid cooled 2.5" tweaters. They were rated at 102 DB @1 Watt/1 Meter. I rewired inside with larger guage wires and that helped a lot. Speakers were 105 pounds each. 400 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. I had an old Sansui Receiver 2000SX driving them. It was 4 ohms rated at 140 watts RMS. This was one of the best sounding receiver I have ever heard. Had a nice Pioneer CD changer and it sounded awesome. Also had an old no-name orange tube amp that sounded 10 times better than the Sansui, but it needed a few new tubes so it was eventually retired, but man nothing can compare to the clarity and highs that came out with the tube amp driving those DX-9's. I had nothing after Katrina but my life.

Anyway now I have a shitty Altec Lansing 5 speaker suround system and it just leaves so much to be desired. Anyone know what's good besides Cerwin Vega? I will be looking for some used high end stereo components this summer, and Cerwin Vega will be on the list. Anything else to look for? I've had Bose before and didn't like them. I've heard some Pioneer stuff but wasn't wild for that. FWIW, my Uncle has a 15K dollar stereo and his speakers are Acoustic Research, but I doubt I could ever find any of these used for not too much. His stereo sounds incredible, indescribable.

old school cv fan here too, i got myself a pair a dx-7's with re series center and surrounds. at onetime had re 38 15's too....i really haven't found anything thay will play as loud and as long as vegas while being clear. bose sucks, build something badass, i haven't had the time in years but from my experience even mediocre monitors with a badass amp sound insane enough to make the hair on your arms stand up

I might would build something, but I would have a lot of learning to do before I could attempt that. I could build a damn strong and rigid box, but don't have the knoledge to know what space and ports it should have and all. I guess i need to find an audio forum and read up.

it's been a long time for me but there's plenty of info out there to build something sweet, audio was my obsession till i got my license then it kind of faded out, you can do something easy off partsexpress.com that will sound sick with a nice amp.

forget brand names and figure out your budget first. then figure out what you want the system to do... play loud at parties or play at normal levels REALLY well.

I'm pretty sure Cerwin Vega fell out of favor with audiophiles about the time Vanilla Ice fell out of favor with the white rapper crowd.

I have a pair of Polk LSi7 speakers that are very sweet. they were on sale about 75% off as a refurb.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/p...lf/series/lsi/

they also make floorstanders with a built-in sub but the price goes up fast. oddly they do duty as my garage speakers.

for a receiver / amp, the sky's the limit. I like my denon as a home theatre receiver. the sound is less shrill than the previous sony i had.

but for the most part, I build my own speakers. There's a few places to get kits that are ready to assemble without having to know too much.

www.madisound.com
www.partsexpress.com

Matt

Ok, I want it to sound damn good at normal levels. My Cerwin Vega's were loud, and sounded good, but they I've heard systems that sounded much better for sure. I would rather have something that sounded good than loud.

It looks like a bookshelf setup with a sub would be the best configuration and fit my low budget. I'm afraid to say what my budget is for speakers. I could spend the money but I'd rather get a good value setup then a top notch setup so to speak. Not saying I want a Wal-Mart stereo, I'm saying I'd rather spend say 100 on a pair of bookshelf speakers that sound pretty damn good then spend 250 on a pair that sound a little better.

I'd love to build my own speakers. I've done car boxes before, like probably 10 different ones, but never home stereo enclosures. I do know enough I could learn anyways.

Ok, how about a 300 dollar budget for two bookshelf speakers and a floor sub? I could go more, but If 300 would do nicely that would be great. Again, I don't want it to sound like ass, I already have a shitty setup. I want it to sound crisp, clear, balanced, full, stuff like that. Quality over volume I guess.

Edit: I may can find a high quality receiver or amp from my Uncle. He has a nice setup, and I may could get one of his old receivers or something like that. Any suggestions in this area Matt?

in you're case here it's going to be all in the crossover setup, build it nice with nice drivers and properly tuned boxes and you'll be rewarded with nice sounds

Check out http://www.zaphaudio.com/ for DIY setups and driver reviews and shit


But this is probably what you want(actually, it is what you want :P): http://www.zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html

4 - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...TOKEN=68305346

2- http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=795

get the crossover components from Madisound as well, and your total cost of supplies will be right around $200. It can't be beat at that price.



You will want a plate amp as well for the sub to take care of processing / amplification. This would be my choice:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=300-804
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=295-470

About $400 on that setup will serve you good ;)

I was gonna suggest a zaph kit. WAY more value for your $200 pair of speakers.

I'd hold off on the sub and decide if you really need it later.

my advice on receivers is: take free shit from your uncle!

You really need to figure out what sounds good to you. Because what you like might not be my definition of good.

Some of my favorite brands that you can get amazing deals on used stuff are Snell Acoustics, Jamo (beware of their low end stuff tho), and Monitor Audio.

My theater room at my last house was Parasound and Snell. :fawk:
Haven't done anything really at the current house (yet).

I'll sell you my head unit:

http://www.boostedmiata.com/new_miat...n/CIMG1335.JPG

can't beat that shit.

I would also stay away from the chain stores. Find yourself a nice little mom&pop place that specializes in some of the upper end companies. They will always work with you on prices.

I don't know how far this place is from you, but they have Boston, DefTec, Mirage, Monitor, and Klipsch... should be good place to do listening homework.
http://www.fidlerhifi.com/Product_Lines.html

This place has B&W, Paradigm, and JBL.
http://www.lookandlistenmobile.com/

SORRY! I just saw your budget.
Craigslist is your friend. Keep up to speed on the major cities in the area and wait for something good to come up for cheap.

That's looks like exactly what I want. Build a nice pair of speakers and good sub and I think I'd be pretty happy. I do appreciate the low frequencies in music so I would want a sub. Plus from what I've read the drivers will handle more power if they are cut off around 60HZ and let the sub take over there.

Hard to describe what sounds good to me. I want it to sound full and clear. The Vega's were loud and sounded good to me, but some of the mids were WAY to loud, but then the deep base wasn't there. I want everything balanced I guess, and a large enough sub that I can get the lower frequencies. I know in car audio there's a big difference between 10's, 12's, and 15's. My Unlce's system last time I heard it had an Acoustic Research 18" sub and it was amazing. It wasn't loud, but you could hear the lower notes well.

there are a few place online to purchase used equipment that was stolen or seized from police warehouses. usually have some good shit for cheap.

Not bookshelves, but a great deal:
http://jackson.craigslist.org/ele/580479627.html
http://av123.com/index.php?page=shop...mart&Itemid=37

Here's a complete Infinity system... resell the mains and center and just keep the bookshelves and sub:
http://mobile.craigslist.org/ele/561001834.html

If you want nice bookshelf speakers, Bang & Olufsen, Energy, NHT, and my favorite - PSB come to mind.

I'd agree with PSB. I own a pair of their bookshelves myself.

Hmm, I got some money and I think I'm gonna order the Zaph kit Blaque suggested. I talked to my uncle and several friends and nobody has an old reciever. I looked at this one yesterday at a local place and I could get it for 179.99. It says it's 110 watts a channel, but I'm skeptical. Is this junk or good? I need something. Suggestions welcome.

Sherwood. Great on a budget.
http://sherwoodusa.com/am_cat_av.html

street prices are about half the MSRP listed on each page.

or since you're near NYC, try anything from www.jr.com

Yea, they had a 100W x 5 channel Sherwood for 100 bucks there, but I have never heard of them. So when they rate them 100 Watts, is that 100 watts maximum peak possible power for .0001 seconds or actual RMS? I've heard they are really only 20 watts RMS or so before the THD goes way up. I've been eying some old Sansui receivers on eBay. Might could get a 50 watt RMS per channel 2 channel Sansui for around 100 shipped.

from their website (RD 6105) 100W x 2 at <0.9% THD. beyond that it's probably power supply limited since the power supply transformer has probably the most significant impact on sustained power ability. hence heavier = better (unless you go class D / T). the more you load the PS, the lower the rail voltages sag and the less loud the amp can play. trying to play at the same wattage with lower rail voltage increases distortion. generally speaking.

the 7502 appears to be able to drive all channels at 100W at <.2% THD. not bad.

I just bought a Sansui G 4700 for 150 shipped. It's rated 50 watts RMS at .008% THD. . Another site says the G4700 was 50 watts at <.05%THD. Research shows my old Sansui 2000X was 52 watts RMS at .8% THD, so this one is much better. Still, it sounded incredible, much better than my 100 watt's a channel Pioneer I had at the time, which was 100 watts at .9% THD. From what I can tell, this one should be great. Now I need to make up my mind on speakers. I'm really close to buying the Zaph kit Blaque suggested, seems like a great deal to me.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...TODAY.m238.lVI

Hehe, the Zaph setup is not gonna be beat at that price.

If you're only gonna go stereo plus a sub, than I would use this amp personally:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=248-749

Because it's super G. :D

behringer is cheap, but they're cheap.

I have a pair of these. Bought many years ago, they saw some hard use. Wife hates 'em because they're so large. They aren't the cleanest sounding speakers, but if you like bass, there aren't many that can touch them unless you spend stupid amounts of cash. They make great speakers for watching movies with lots of gunfire and explosions!

Have them hooked up to an Adcom amp, pumping out insane watts, but I forget the specs now. Recently, I had to run new wires, and when I popped off the grilles noticed that the woofer surrounds had degraded to the point of disintegration. Lucky for me, there are replacement kits available on the web.

I would highly reccomend the Adcom components. Lots of clean power, and damn near bulletproof. They have these freakishly large capacitors in the amp. One demonstration of their reserve power is to turn off the amp. It still plays for 15 seconds before it fades out.

I just ordered the Zaph kit Blaque suggested, 241.88 for all the components shipped. Now I gotta get a sheet of MDF and build the enclosures. tweeters aint cheap! They were like 86 I think for 2, more than all the woofers. Oh well, I hope it sounds good.

they still do tube amps...if you're interested..

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forum....php?forumid=5

I got a couple questions. In THIS blueprint, is this showing two braces with the center lining up with the woofer, or a brace on each side and one in the middle? I'm planing on building the 1 cubic foot enclosure and hanging the speakers off of the ceiling.

the brace is probably just a flat piece with large holes cut into it. it'll be the same size as the inside of the box and glued into place. then cut a few big holes so air passes through easily. since you're bracing flat panels rather than corners, try to cut the holes so there's still a solid piece of material in a couple places that connect opposite walls.

here's a good example. you can round-over the edges of the cuts so they're not sharp if you want. airflow.

http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...osurecons1.jpg

I'd argue that given the driver size and the wattage you'll be using, extra bracing won't be needed. It will affect the internal volume slightly, though.

But I'm going deaf in my old age and have given up my desire to be considered an audiophile. :)

I've got Axiom audio monitors that I swear use those aluminum Dayton woofers.

Frank

the bracing will help some at all volumes (loudness, not cubic dimension) because it reduces the vibration of the flat panels of the speaker box. it's like putting dynamat on your doors to prevent them from going boom boom.

UPDATE: I got the woofers yesterday, but still waiting on all the other components and the receiver. I started building the first box today. It's not perfect but not too bad. I was having hell making straight cuts with a cheap ass saw working from my cramped kitchen floor. I'm used to using a Makita. I finally figured out to setup a jig to guide the saw and that works much better, so second box will be a wee bit more square. I installed one brace. If it looks good let me know. If it looks like a failure lie and say it looks good. :bigtu: I plan to get it built, then disassemble it and glue everything and screw it all together, then seal it up with silicone or something, though it seems pointless.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...nsTablesaw.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...peakerbox1.jpg

Also, I didn't buy anything for connections. On subwoofers I've build for cars, I always used a piece of all-thread going through the box with a nut and washer to secure it on both sides, then put a washer, wire, washer, nut, and tighten the piss out of it. Is that really a good way to do it? I was also thinking I could just drill two small holes in the box and pull the wires through it, then silicone them so air can't leak. Then solder the wires for a connection. Wouldn't that be better?

Ghetto ass. Buy a terminal cup. :giggle:

http://www.darvex.com/miva/graphics/00000001/BPSG.jpg

at the very least get the banana terminals/binding posts that are 2 inches long. They're just like what ben posted a picture of but work like your allthread solution.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...umber=091-1245

also make yourself a sawboard. very useful if you dont have a tablesaw.
http://members.aol.com/woodmiser1/sawbd.htm

ALSO
make sure you flush mount the speakers in the cabinets. I know you will think it's superfluous, but it will really smooth out the response. If you're going to think it's not worth the effort, at least do the tweeters. Check out zaphs article on it:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/mtg-surface.html

Matt

Not disagreeing, but the cup should cost half (if not less) than these.


Agreed. Tweeters only will be fine, and really not hard at all.

Hmm, well I didn't order any banana terminals or any other binding post so would Radio Shack have something that would work? Also, my run the wires out and solder them idea sounds good to me, and wouldn't soldering them be better anyway?

Oh yea, and I have a table saw and all kinds of nice stuff, just not up here at MSU. I don't have a router either up here. Is there any other way to do it? I have a dremel and I think they make a router attachment, but it probably cost as much as a real router... If there's a ghetto way to counter sink the tweaters I'll just do that, or wait till I can bring a router up here and do it then.

Also again, that article Matt posted the last graph is with a 1" woofer/tweater clearance and surface mounted woofer, flush mounted tweater. Should I just do that and move the tweater so I have a 1" clearance instead of the 1/8" clearance the Zaph kit uses?

it may be hard to flush mount the tweeter after you cut the hole. you'll have to find a bit that exactly matches the flange dimension. maybe that's possible. actually you should see if MSU has a wood shop that has the tools you need. I bet they do. somewhere. follow the architects.

I doubt radio shack has the binding posts but they may have terminal cups. unfortunately they're just cheapo spring loaded ones. you could also try a car audio place. they may have them for sub boxes.

Moving the tweeters may be a problem.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/email.html <-- 2nd and 3rd questions. ;)

I have a bunch of old focal shit in the house, with their 15" multi-magnet sub in a box. Shit rocks out.

yeah, the design of the box is actually a vital point for Zaph. Flush mounting shit, chamfering edges, and other stuff.

just finish making that box and ghetto it out, then do REALLY REALLY well on the next box and make it perfect for absolute audio perfection. lol idk

Holy cow, does't get much more ghetto than that. Don't you have any cable clamps? Those are roofing nails?

Yeap, 7/8 roofing nails. What's a cable clamp?

something like these: http://cableorganizer.com/saddles-clips/

Available cheap from Radio Shack or the like.

Lowes sells big bags of cable clamps as well.

dont let them hate! I say pull out all the metal nails and screws and use a GREAT product from home dep called liquid nails. strong as shit. good for holding down stuff like that and the non-metallic glue wont affect the audio signals at all. If you build the crossovers into the speakers, nobody will ever know they're ghettotastic.

I did use 30 year caulk adhesive on all the crossover components and to seal up the box, but I went back with the screws to make damn sure they don't ever vibrate loose. Again, I have liquid nails, hot glue guns, etc at my other home, but here at MSU I don't have much, so I'm using what I got. Hell, I don't even have a tape measure! Indeed, crossovers are inside of speakers anyway, so they are hidden. Those screws aren't really gonna effect the sound are they? I mean, not on paper, but really I won't be able to hear something and contribute it to the screws right?

Just got done soldering the wires to the speakers for the first box, back to work.

Do I have to break these speakers in or anything? Do I just play them, or is there anything special I need to do?

No, the nails will not have any effect. I was just teasing. If it's all hidden, who cares?

Just plug them in. Use correct polarity for best bass response, also called phasing. Let 'em rip. No break in required.

However, make sure all glue/caulk is set up properly first.

Polarity has been observed. I got one assembled, but forgot to put the accousta-stuff in it so I gotta take it back apart.


http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...peakerbox2.jpg


http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...peakerbox3.jpg

Just finished the speakers. Problem is I don't have a receiver to play them with!!!:vash: It should be here tomorrow, the Sansui G-4700. So, I plan to hang them on the ceiling. I understand you supposed to have them standing vertically, with the tweeters facing in. I was gonna do them horizontally, and have the tweeters down, angle them in a few degrees and down a few degrees, say 10*. Would that be fine?

Finished speakers:
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...peakerbox4.jpg

lookin good. the metal in the crossovers wont affect them enough to hear. not as much as not flush mounting the tweeter would ;) but if you've ever made an electromagnet in science class, you'd understand why it *could*, right? (wire wrapped around a nail)

anyway, I had a thought about flush mounting that you could do there for cheap. get some 1/8" masonite or some similar material and cut out holes for the OD of all the drivers that aren't flush mounted and just lay it over the top of the front panel and voila, flush drivers! make sure you goop that shit up good with adhesive though. a rattle there would be awful. or if you want fully awesome, use metal and polish it up. haha.

having them horizontally will ruin the dispersion. with an MTM (Mid-Tweet-Mid), the two mids will have cancellation effects (similar to running one speaker out of phase) when you aren't midway between them (on axis with the tweeter).

WHen they're placed vertically, the position of your head is relatively consistent--say on a couch it'll be 42 inches off the ground or standing it'll be 60, but it's still roughly between those mids so the effect is minimized. you may notice a difference in sound when you sit vs. stand though.

when they're horizontal (and this is why 99% of center channels are fundamentally flawed), the interference pattern of the mids occurs everwhere but a narrow space straight ahead of the speaker. Here's a graph showing an example:

http://www.partsexpress.com/projects...ts/centerx.jpg

Thats just 30 degrees off axis. (you sitting in front of the horizontal speaker and then rotating it 30 degrees on its stand). I dont know your experience with frequency response graphs but i'll go into it anyway ;)

The big dip in the middle is basically sucking out all the upper-midrange when it's rotated 30 degrees. It will be slightly different for your setup but the effect is very similar. It will make all the vocals drop out. That dip in the graph is ~15 db. And 3 db is "twice the volume" so it's 5 times quieter there.

I'll give zaph credit (at least in this context) though. He picked a fairly low crossover frequency of 1450 Hz. That means that the spacing of the woofers is close enough to at elast minimize the effect. I'd still put them vertically (tweeters-in) and probably pointing straight ahead (more than one listener) or toed-in slightly (one/two listeners) depending on where you sit. if you're moving around a lot, point them anywhere.

Sorry to go off on this, it's the other thing I do besides turbo miatas and speaker stuff has been rolling around in my head for about 10 years.

Matt

No apologies needed, I greatly appreciate your advise! I have no experience with those graphs so the explanations was needed. I didn't know it would cause problems running them horizontally, so I'll run them vertically with tweeters in. My room is small, and I have 8' ceilings. What are some good dimensions for spacing them off the walls and ceiling? I have read 3' off the side, 1' off the back, don't remember about the ceiling though. Still, I would like to minimize the distance they are from the walls and ceiling as the room is small.

HOLY HELL THESE SPEAKERS ARE AWSOME!!!!!

They sound great. They're just sitting on my desk right now, but man these are awesome. It needs a sub, but other than that, I love it.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...boxhangers.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/e...5/speakers.jpg

They sound much better from the ceiling than on my desk. Needs a sub, but to the 60hz crossover the bass is full. Will trade my flywheel for you nice powered sub....

I ran the wires through the ceiling into the attic, over the ceiling and down a wall and out to the shelf above my desk. That's where the receivers new home will be one day. I need to run power up there though, no plugs to plug it in above the shelf.

I swear, every song I listen to I hear stuff I've never heard before. I do want to flush mount the tweeters though, might do that tomorrow. Need a sub now. Should I just build the kit sub blaque posted on page 1? It would cost around 200 plus the cost of building a box.

awesome... glad you're happy. I think they're fine where they are.

As far as subs, for about $250 plus wood, you can make something that will rock pretty hard.

Sooo, what exactly do you have in mind?

FWIW, the speakers are 12" off the back, 18" of the side, 5" off the ceiling.