indigestible starch, your gut microbiome, and gassing your wife
 

Resistant Starch: American Gut Project Real Results And Comparison (Very Big News) | Free The Animal

- Gut bacterial cells outnumber your cells > 10:1 (kinda changes our idea of "me")

- there are many species, some "good", some "bad"

- the symbiotic relationship with the good ones runs deep, with known effects on immune system, allergies, carbohydrate tolerance, blood sugar and mood. ("Sorry dear, it wasn't me, it was my gut bacteria being crabby")

- a crowdfunded research project using gene sequencing of POOP was done by 2 guys (this probably is the future of a lot of research), using a database to find correlations between questionnaire answers and poo bacterial profile

- taking 4 tbsp a day (in a smoothie or in a glass of water) of dirt-cheap (indigestible) potato starch, which is a strong PREbiotic (feeds the good bacteria), has huge health benefits

Mind blown.

Just started researching this a few days ago. I'm about this close to going whole hog on the potato starch to see what happens (other than flatulence).

I found some Bob's Red Mill unmodified potato starch at the local supermarket, and I tentatively started with a tbsp in water last night. No complaints from the wife. This morning I had another tbsp in my smoothie, along with half a large green banana. Tested blood sugar spike, it was small at 105. (Half a ripe banana would spike it to 115-120 which is my personal limit.) Looks like I can work up to the 4 tbsp a day dose pretty quickly.

Heh, my wife already had some Bob's Red Mill unmodified potato starch. I tried it in my whey protein drink and it was completely unnoticeable.

Hmmm. Watching.

http://www25.myfantasyleague.com/ffl...e_icon0009.jpg

For some reason, this seemed appropriate here.

so french fries with my organic, grass fed yogurt?

Some of those guys are a little cuckoo. One of them hasn't bathed with soap or shampoo for four years.

No Soap On My Skin, No Shampoo In My Hair: Over 4 Years | Free The Animal

If cooked below 140*F so the resistant starch doesn't convert to digestible starch.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Jason, but I believe it could be cooked over 140 F, it just needs to be allowed to cool again before consumption, so that the starch undergoes retrogradation.

Woah, it makes sense, it's worth a shot since it's dirt cheap anyways, if it doesn't help then no big loss

Oh? That's good because I always take my fries home.

Yeah, fast food fries are still nasty because of the oils, but I would guess that cold fries would have some resistant starch.

Sushi rice, too.

If I understand correctly, said retrogradation is only partial.

My go-to burger place fries in olive oil, so it's not as bad as the big chains.

Can olive oil get hot enough to make tasty fries?
I wish fastfood places would go back to using beef tallow already.

I got the potato starch today. I'll report any changes.
Bob's Red Mill brand, and mixed three heaping teaspoon fulls into some chocolate milk, for taste.

Where did you buy it from?

Whole Foods carries Bob's Red Mill. So does Amazon.

If you go on their website they have a store finder. I saw their products in other stores that aren't on their site, too, but not the potato starch. I found the potato starch at a health food store that was listed in the store finder.

The potato starch is light and almost completely flavorless so it mixes well without any foul taste. You can't get it over 130*F or it changes to the "other" type of starch, so it is best to mix it with something cool or room temperature. I can imagine it in smoothies, milkshakes, pudding, or chocolate milk.

Nope. Olive oil is pretty low temp unfortunately. I want some duck fries now damn it!!!

Also, is potato starch, just potato starch? That Bob's Red Mill isn't anything special is it? Publix is supposed to carry it, and they do carry a bunch of Bob's products. Everything except the damn potato starch. I did however find some kosher potato starch from Streit's. Not much info on the box... It is kosher, so maybe it's unmodified.

What would be the difference between modified and unmodified anyway? Besides the very obvious.

I got mine at Jewel, it was a little under $4. They had a whole Bob's red mill section, it was in the aisle with the flour. Look for a white powder with a light pink label.

I saw the Streit's as well. It is supposed to be used for making matzos for Jewish holidays. There was no info on their website and the online blog that started all of this never mentioned that brand so I kept looking until I found Bob's.

Potato starch has given me an idea that may prove to be awesome... a pizza with a potato dough. I made some home made mashed potatoes earlier and figured I would add some starch to it for an extra RS kick (1tbsp) and it seemed to make the potatoes a bit dough like. So I added another tbsp to see what that would do, and now it is almost the exact consistency of regular flour dough, just with lumpy bits of fresh mashed potatoes. Now to figure out toppings to make an awesome, slightly healthier pizza. Though all of this is at roughly room temp, so I'm not sure what it would do when heated to 400-450 degrees with topping on top.

But the RS is converted to regular starch above 130*F, which is why you aren't supposed to cook it if eating it for biome reasons.

The first 2 days with 1 tbsp doses my stomach felt slightly odd, but it was fine.
So I upped it to 2 tbsp, 2x/day.

A couple of days later I had scallops with diced celery root at a fancy restaurant. Dear god I got incredibly gassy for 18 hours, so bad my nether hole was starting to feel slightly sore. The wife quarantined me to the spare room. The RS and the celery root must react like Mentos and soda.

This is what I've gleaned looking around.

- Potato Starch is made by peeling potatoes, then grinding the "meat" in a water slurry, then drying it to get the powder.

- Potato Flour is NOT the same as Potato Starch. It contains the skin, and it is like cooked flour, because it will spike your blood sugar. I don't know if that's because it's cooked.

- To add confusion, "Potato Flour Starch" is the same as "Potato Starch".

- "modified" is for "industrial purposes" and you don't want that, I don't know why.

To play it safe I went and looked for Bob's Red Mill Unmodified PS. The local Nob Hill had an entire rack of their produces in the baking section.

Isn't the cooling process what makes the crystallized structures in the starch, making it RS? So as long as you cooked it and allowed it to cool, shouldn't it be fine? Either way, I'm going to have to try this sticky potato dough like mix and see how it bakes. If it comes out crispy I'll be happy, though I kind of have a feeling it will just come out like sticky/stretchy mashed potatoes with a brown crust on the outside.

Dunno. I just know enough to be dangerous. The guys on the site said don't heat it so I don't. One benefit for me is that it makes me feel full so I snack less after a tall glass of chocolate milk with the PS in it.

Yeah, that's where I've been getting most of mine. Ovaltine malt flavor and ps. Pretty much tasteless, and I actually kind of like the mouth feel the ps creates. From what I understand though, the resistant starch is formed from crystals that form when the starch cools to around room temp or below. I would imagine colder means more crystals, and more RS, but I could be wrong. I've been making home made mash with a little extra ps and then spreading it thin on a plate and letting it cool in the freezer for a few minutes to get it down to room temp quickly. Had that last night with some hamburger steak and onions on top. So RS and good protein.

Between this thread and the Bitcoin thread, I'm tempted to start a side-business selling bridges and advertise it here.

Must be your unbalanced biome making you crabby.

I'll get you a great deal on fixer-upper.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1386679487

Andrew, I'm pretty skeptical too, but it was $4 so why not?

Why not just eat a raw potato?

He must not like cutting edge science!

Insulin-sensitizing effects of dietary resist... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI
Resistant starch: metabolic effects and p... [J AOAC Int. 2004 May-Jun] - PubMed - NCBI
Dietary-resistant starch and ... [Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

Have you ever tried it? I have and it's *terrible*!

Not quite, if you let them go stale, then yes they would have mostly retrogradated at that point. Retrogradation is what makes foods with starch in them go stale.

I'm considering this.

:dealwithit:

It's not that bad with a little salt and pepper. I used to eat raw potato slices.

Yep. Sometimes I don't microwave my potatoes enough and they are still raw inside. I still eat. Omm nom nom.

Well gays, preliminary data for my N=1 (self) experiment is in.

Morning fasting blood sugar testing. Optimal is 70-85, 90-99 is marginal, and 100-110 is pre-diabetic.

A couple of months ago before I further reduced my starchy-food intake (which I had reduced some a couple of years ago), my morning blood sugar was typically 95-104.

A month ago after a couple of months of further reduced sugar/starch diet, it went to 85-95.

After 10 days of this resistant starch, the last 3 days of blood sugar showed 80,86,75. I have NEVER seen it below 85 before. And the 75 this morning.. I felt energetic and not weak nor hungry at all.

I'm thrilled at these results. This seems to be the final piece of the puzzle to get my blood sugar in the optimal range.

Naysayers can suck it.

??

LOL, you might be waiting for a while. Just because their aren't large scale studies done on this yet, doesn't mean it's bullshit. Obviously it's working for Jason, for now at least.

I farted.

Maybe it was the mac n'cheese from a box mixed with a can of tuna. Don't hate, it was extra after my daughter had her supper. My wife and I don't usually eat supper, and yep, we feed our daughter ghetto style sometimes when we get home late and are too tired to cook from scratch. Anyway, there was some left and I ate it. I was pretty gassy this morning but it might have had nothing to do with the potato starch. YMMV.

Kraft mac n cheeze + canned tuna = awesome. It will make your blood sugar to below 85.

I am not making a claim that it works or not, just suggesting that a single datapoint provided here is hardly compelling scientifically.

Thus my first line, "N=1 experiment".

The reason I was so interested in trying this, is because
a) there are many studies that suggest that RS reduces fasting blood glucose, *and* post-prandial BG.
b) there are several commenters in the comments to the blog I linked, that claimed the same.

If something works for you, will you stop doing it because of lack of "large scale scientific studies"? Or, if an experiment is easy to try with a potential big upside and little downside, will you not do it?

Why is keeping your blood glucose low so important? Here. I don't know if there are "large scale scientific studies". But the existing evidence is enough for me. You gays can all turn decrepit from neolithic diseases:

https://www.google.com/search?q=bloo...g%2C+longevity

I don't know, I'm hardly anti-science, but there's lots of very scientifically-compelling large scale studies that turned out to be bunk. N=1 isn't conclusive, but it's a start.

It's important to understand the limitations of large-scale epidemiological studies. This is a pretty important read:

Science, Pseudoscience, Nutritional Epidemiology, and Meat

Good article.

Another update.

The farting didn't start til about the 3rd day. I thought it would go away.

GODDAM my asshole needs a rest. On some days I fart for 2 days straight. Holy hell is there no gut bacteria that consumes the gas and turns it into rosewater or lavender??

These things actually exist:
Odor Control for Embarrassing Flatulence & Excessive Gas | Flat-D
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1386976969

WTF are you eating? I've been using 4tbs per day for quite a few days without but a little touch of that one morning. It is normal the rest of the time.

I noticed it gets really bad when I have certain vegetables in the same meal. (onions, cauliflower)

I skipped one dose and only had 1 tbsp the next day, because I had a flotation tank session and didn't want to die in it from my own emissions. Mercifully, it stopped.

I plan to continue with 1 tbsp 2x/day and slowly ramp back up to 2 tbsp.

I'm eating a variety of things as I am not on any type of "diet" and am seeing no irregular gaseous emissions. Situation normal.

Jason, how are you testing blood sugar? The same way a diabetic patient does?

$9 meter, highly reviewed for accuracy and small prick, comes with 10 strips:


Add'l 50 strips:


Why I started doing this: I noticed my A1c (average blood sugar) from yearly blood testing was creeping up. I noticed it, my doctor didn't flag it. Chris Kresser explains that if you see this you have to nip it in the bud. Do NOT wait for it to cross the mainstream's fine line from "you're fine" to "you're diabetic, start these meds for life":

When your “normal” blood sugar isn’t normal (Part 1)
Why your ?normal? blood sugar isn?t normal (Part 2)
How to prevent diabetes and heart disease for $16 <-- note the meter I linked appears better reviewed than the one he mentions
Why hemoglobin A1c is not a reliable marker

I used up a few dozen strips by starting a diary of these measurements:
- fasting morning
- before meals
- peak after meals after various meals.
- 90 minutes after various meals

I was looking for trends. I'm an engineer, data is good :)

My observation was that my fasting BG wasn't optimal, and I was very sensitive to starch - I was getting high post-meal peaks on relatively small amounts of starch, e.g. a whole banana in my smoothie, 2 buns on a burger, the flour on a tempura, sweet sauce in chinese food (without eating any rice!). However the peak came and went very quickly, and with a mainly starch meal (e.g. pasta), my BG crashed very quickly afterwards. I had *reactive hypoglycemia*, which can be a precursor to diabetes later on. I also noticed that beer would spike my BG but not wine or bourbon. So I learned to mix cocktails using Stevia. :) And 2 weeks after starting on the indigestible starch, my post-meal spikes appear significantly lower. I plan to have more pizza :)

This is ripe for a title change. The mods have gotten lazy :party:

Wait, you pick out the farting quote but don't highlight this sentence?