Itt: COFFEE and stuff - revisited
 

And if you say Keurig, you're fired.

My Keurig took a dump for the last time a few days back. Damn thing has been repaired 3 times in the last year, and the internet reviews say I got lucky. I did like the convenience of the "grab and go" single cup, but I have a Tassimo that does that reliably and faster. What I'm looking to get is a real coffee maker, one that can make an entire pot. It capable of making single cups, cool but not neccesary, and I'd like to avoid any type of k-cups all-together, i miss the smell of a freshly brewed pot in the morning. :drool:

What do you have that I'm missing in my life?

Have you seen this thread?

https://www.miataturbo.net/insert-bs...ailable-69605/

It inspired me to save up (and get donations from regular coffee snob overnight guests) for the Technivorm Moccamaster. I still think it's probably the best, and it's hand made in the Netherlands with quality components.

However, for half the price I've been reading some really positive reviews for the Bonavita. The basic design reminds me of the Moccamaster.

Bonavita Coffee Maker :: Thermal BV1800TH | Clive Coffee

According to the reviews I've read, these two are at the top of the pile right now as far as quality and taste go.

Looks nice, but what makes it better than the rest of the sub-$200 coffee machines? I looks just like any other coffee maker with less bells and whistles, not that that's important. Just wondering what makes the brew better besides temerature control.

I hadn't read that thread, thanks for the link. I do miss HEB coffee. Hell, I just miss Texas.

It seems to come down primarily to temperature control (getting to the correct temp, fast, and maintaining that temp thru the whole brew) and the length of time the water is exposed to the grounds.

Coffee Roaster, Home Brew | Incline Village, NV
Roast your own and great brewer as well.

Keurig is so goddamned disgusting.

Agreed.

honestly, we have one here, and it makes the worst coffee I've ever tasted.

Keurig is some of the worst drip coffee I've ever had.

We currently have a Nespresso, not your cup of tea (lol) with the cups, but it makes an espresso in about 30-45 seconds, and comes with a frother for our creamer and/or milk. We've cut our coffee house visits way down since we've gotten it, saving us tons and justifying the ~$70 every two months.

We have a pixie

Nespresso - Coffee machines for the best espresso, cappuccino and latte

That seems similar to my bosch tassimo. It makes cappuccinos and espressos in addition to the regular single cup coffees. I'm interested in the Krups grind and brew km7000. It seems like a decent piece of equipment. Anyone used one?

Behmor Brazen but be aware that like any super hot girl, she has some issues that you must deal with to ... get to have sex with a super hot girl.

Of course Brazen has a timer and can be set in 1 degree increments for brew temp and has a temperature calibration feature, so she's not only a hot girl, but she's got a degree in astrophysics.

Coffee Roaster, Home Brew | Incline Village, NV | Brazen

It can also act as a hot water maker for pourover or tea or some shit.

Chemex pot or die.

The moccamaster is the only way to go. Since I got one (that my ex girlfriend took when we separated), basically all my close friends got one of their own. And of course, I got another one the day my first one disappeared.

10 years guarantee, great coffee and looks beautiful when steaming.

no timer. I need my coffee ready before I am.

Bumping this from the grave, as I'm looking around for a good coffee maker

Actually, just getting into coffee altogether, kinda n00bish, but tired of drinking instant at home and want to venture out and try new things.
At work we have some old janky machine and 3 choices of company provided coffee, 1 of them is okay'ish (Starbucks house blend), the rest garbage (Standard french roast and Standard colombia blend)

Looks like the Bonavita bv1900ts is rated pretty high, some saying it's even the best.

Input?

aeropress, a 300ml beaker to microwave or kettle, bur grinder, espresso beans, and use the inverted method, add hot water to fill cup when done brewing.

Very nice coffee brewing system. Dude makes a nice coffee roaster as well.

/\ Yep that one seems to be the runner up on the couple sites I've been reading.
And then I watched like 50 comparison/review videos on YT and seems like for every single one review there's a contradicting review with those two basically switching places each time between best and runner up.

Seems like the Brazen has more options/features, which could be good or bad (cause I R Noob), and the Bonavita is just a 1 button "simple" setup that's good and consistent.

then there's this:
The Best Coffee Maker | The Sweethome

Do it once do it right: espresso machine or bust. Be a man. :dealwithit:

Evict all notions of drips and pods and buttons and the like. Aeropress is pretty good though.

LOL no. Though my brother in law has this:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1441682744

And the few times I've had some it was amazing, I'm not spending absurd money on this. I don't think I will even go above 200 bux for now.

The aeropress/french press idea is not terrible. Like half my co-workers walk around with French Presses and scoff at the rest of us peasants who drink the company provided starbux trash, lol.

But I've heard that it is relatively inconsistent unless you actually measure the water temp and make sure it's on point, which is way too much work for me. At work we have boiling water though, so...

It is more costly its true, and it isn't really just the machine, a good grinder is almost more necessary, so you can sort out the grind just right for whatever the machine might be inclined to do...

But I regret absolutely nothing. I love coffee and this does save us in the long run offsetting the number of coffees we were buying out*

Its nicer coffee than any other option.

*reduction in actual number of coffees bought out statistically insignificant.

coffeecoffeecoffeecoffeecoffeecoffeecoffeecoffeeco ffeecoffeecoffeecoffee

We have a Rancilio Silvia, not a double boiler but a solid unit.

Since you mentioned work is this one for home or office? A little searching says the 1900ts and the Brazen Plus are both really good machines. The Plus has more controls, but that might be a bad thing at work. If I was gonna get one for the house it would be the Plus.
For some people making coffee in the morning is ritualistic. Heating the water, grinding the beans, brewing. For others, "I just wanna push the button". Either way, you will want to get a burr style bean grinder. Freshly ground right before using make a big difference in taste.

Good question: home.
We have some industrial one at work, if I took this to work they'd probably break it in 2 days, there's so many people using it.

Right now I'm one of those guys that "want to push 1 button" but again, I'm just getting into it, so I don't want to find out in 6 months that I have to spend another 200 bux, that's why I'm making sure.

I've drank coffee for about 6 years now, since I start work at 5am. It's really weird that I never became a coffee snob, it was always just something I drank for the energy bump and not as much for the flavor/enjoyment, but as of late I've got this urge to try new things and not drink the same mediocre crap I have for 6 years. I'm probably getting old and actually care about stuff like coffee, beer, food, etc now hahaha

yep, shopping for one of those too

This is the grinder I've had for about 6 years, is seem bullet proof.

MDF Gaggia Coffee Grinder | eBay

I don't thing you can go wrong with the plus. There will be some experimenting with different brands of coffee to see what you like. I've found I like Starbuck's Caffe Verona. It's @ $11.50 a lb. It was important for me to balance what I could get immediately when I ran out versus the cost of mail order or driving 40 miles into Chicago for a local roaster. (I have a caffeine problem, but I'm not crazy)
-JB

This thread bump is timely as our coffee machine has been getting progressively worse. It's likely on its last legs.

We drink a fair amount of coffee and buy whole beans from a local roaster (Home - Crossroads Coffee House - Really good coffee, Waxhaw, NC), which are amaze balls.

We've never spent more than $100 on a coffee machine though, $175 for the Bonavita is a bit steep for our single income household but we should probably bite the bullet...

I have a Brazen. I use it ERRR DAY. The best part is you can n00b it now and just make yo coffee and then later you can change all the shit (bloom time, brew temp, manual release) and be a l33tist.

But you also should get an Aeropress because sometimes you just want some strong and perfectly extracted coffee, but only for one cup. Big machines are great if you're brewing for 2+ large cups, otherwise neh.

Only issue with the Brazen for me is that it's apparently VERY sensitive to hard water that's not even that hard. So if you have hard water, look elsewhere. My water is borderline and while I don't get scale, I suspect that two failures (each after about a year) of the release valve assembly, MAY be related.

Still, bitchin warranty got me replacements and each one was updated from the previous, which probably helps matters.

Best thing about it is that it has a timer! morning coffee requires no morning work! Though one could argue that you could put any on/off machine on a light timer (of sufficient current capacity) and get the same thing.

If I didn't get a Brazen, I'd probably get a Technivorm Moccamaster with a thermal carafe.

Also if you're srs about coffee, you'll need a GOOD conical burr grinder. The cheap Baratza Encore is a very solid investment. You could also get a hand mill if you need more forearm strength.

I have the Mr Coffee and while it is cheap and effective, it is loud as fuck and doesn't go very fine (which you'll need for drip/aero). We have a previous generation Baratza at work and it is the bomb.

<p>We use one of these:&nbsp;https://www.katom.com/021-212500000....n14aAqyR8P8HAQ</p><p>Bunn's&nbsp;bottom end of commercial units. That along with a commercial grinder I got from work when our espresso maker broke.</p><p>It doesnt have a timer, but, with the preheated reservoir, it makes morning pot in 3 minutes.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

Interdasting.

I'm not sure how hard/soft our water is, but we do use this at home:

The quantity statement is interesting too cause I don't need a lot of coffee. 1, sometimes 2 cups, that's about it.

So the french press/aero press:
You basically fill it with boiling water, do it's thing, but how do you maintain consistency? I hear too cold and it's bitter, too hot and it's burnt, etc. I have no idea how consistent our boiling water is, and I'm not geeking out with a thermometer or something

I like the smell of coffee *sometimes*, but I don't drink it.

Am I missing out on this magical morning beverage?

After my Breville died with the same 001 error as so many others, I wanted something simpler. Enter the Bonavita

It's the Namamichi CD400 of coffee makers (without the failure prone CD mechanism). IOW, it has minimal controls, looks like a $29 Mr. Coffee, and is so simple to use, that when you're all groggy and need your coffee, it's dead simple to use. Therefore, the coffee goes in the pot, and not all over the counter, and floor.



C

Yes. A well brewed shot of espresso (or brewed coffee) tastes as good as the beans smell.

Vlad, don't overthink this. Grab a grinder, an Aeropress, and an electric kettle. Heck. If you want to get fancy about it, they have electric kettles with built in temp settings... So you can co consistently heat the water to 205, etc... making your life much easier.

We'll leave the discussions about adding PID controllers to your espresso machines for later. Much later.

But an Aeropress, $100 grinder, and $100 electric kettle will surpass most any brewed coffees you can get out of the house, without the effort required for a pour-over. Or necessity to brew an entire pot of coffee like the Technovom units.

:laugh: almost spit out my instant :laugh:

Aeropress is easy once you learn how.

Here's my method (the Inverted method):

1. put water in kettle and boil til it whistles
2. grind coffee. I use about 1.5 scoops of beans (using included scoop) or 1 scoop of grounds
3. assemble plunger to body of aeropress so it's as extended as possible (plunger seal about 3/8 from end of press) and sit it upside down on counter.
4. dump in grounds (use funnel to avoid mess)
5. take water--just off the boil, so around 200+ degrees, and pour it SLOWLY to the top. Stir with the included paddle to wet all the grinds. The bloom will subside and leave a little headroom.
6. start a timer for ~2 minutes
7. top off your water / grinds so they're about 1/4" from the top
8. stick a flter into the cap and wet it if you like.
9. wait impatiently / get a mug
10. when the timer goes off, screw the cap and filter onto the end of the press and HOLDING THE PLUNGER SO IT DOESN'T POP OUT, flip it upside down and set it on top of your mug.
11. press slowly using the weight of your arm until it goes FFFFSFFSSSCHSSCHSS and all the air is squeezed out through the grinds in an esspressoy brown foam.
12. take the press to the garbage or compost and unscrew the filter cap. Press the plunger the rest of the way down and *pop* the coffee puck into the trash.
13. Top the mug with hot or cold water depending on how hot you want your coffee. Or adulterate it with milk/sugar/flavored bullshit as you prefer.

It's pretty simple when you do it in practice. There are about 16 million videos and methods on the internet.

I have yet to get a too bitter/too sour using water off the boil. If you use the microwave to heat your water, it's not as science becasue you can under heat or super heat it without getting a boil and that will FUCK YO SHIT UP. Plus a kettle is also possible to use anywhere you heat, like camping. And great coffee when camping is pretty much the holy grail (not of miata cooling systems).

Very helpful, thanks.
I'll also check those videos you speak of

basically you're doing the upside down thing to relieve the trapped air similar to what the "pre-soak" process does on the machines?

Yup.

And I'm totally not joking about the PID controllers for the boiler temps.
Auberins has a kit out there to help eliminate the need to temperate surf the brew temps on lower priced espresso machines.

I'm not a fan, purely because you can fit the guts inside the case.
Otherwise, it's a pretty handy way to eliminate a variable from the equation.

Can you tell I'm a geek?

I think I'm gonna start with a french press now that I'm looking into it.
I don't want to find out $200-400 later that I'm just not into this that much and wasted money.

if I love the whole "good coffee" thing I'll definitely step my game up.



so do most of you guys not "taint" your coffee with milk/creamer/sugar?
I'm watching videos and it appears that these are the MT equivalent of racelands/obx manifold

seriously just ignore reason and logic and get an aeropress for $30 and see if you even like coffee. It will do a great job and not blow your wad (unless of course you decide it's so delicious you accidentally in your pants).

Even mediocre pre-ground beans taste pretty D in an aeropress.


edit in response to above: not a french press. you'll probably not like the grit and sludge you get. Also you'll break it in a week because glass.

I put sugar in my coffee, but only a tiny bit. you do what you want, but definitely try it black when you try a new process. it may surprise you.

aeropress is 30? for some stupid reason I thought it was 100

okay I'm getting one

Yup. Very inexpensive.
Basically it's a French Press with a bit of filtering action as well.

Added bonus, one cup at a time.

You should swing by one of the Temple Coffee locations for your beans.
The owners are very race-car friendly... and campaign an e30 on the track.

Temple Coffee Locations

:likecat:

look at this thread winning :likecat:

so theirs should be better than costco/sprouts/etc?
that was sorta my next question

by "better" I mean they'll have a good variety and someone will take my n00b hand and guide me through what I might like

*edit: just checked their site. they have tastings. they also have the aeropress.

WIN/WIN

<p>Good advice on from Y8S. If you go gourmet local on the ground stuff, you can purchase small quantities that will not have time to get old. I grind mine every couple of days and keep in a canister.</p><p>If true espresso, you want to grind within the hour, but not so much conventional coffee.</p>

if you want true nerd, use your beans within a week of the roasting too.

but come on, we're humans. I use whole foods 365 pacific rim organic beans because they are some of the cheapest per pound around. $11 per 24 oz bag. Generally for "good brands" you'll find they are about $10-14 for 12 oz bags and for local roasters, closer to the higher end of that scale or more depending on origin--especially for the better single origins.

A good way to fly is to go to a local shop or your farmers market that has local coffee representation. Often they'll do free tastings in mini cups. Get a feel for stuff you like before dropping $17 on a bag.

Yeah, in my immediate area Sprouts is the "whole foods market with local representation"
Looked at the prices on Temple's site and I'm definitely gonna want to be blown away by taste to pay $40 for 8oz lolz

But I'm set with a plan of approach now (I think) and I thank you all for that.

They'll probably have decent grinders as well.
One stop shop, indeed.

In fact, if you're really lucky they'll brew Aeropress there at the shop... so you can order a cup, watch them, pick their brain, etc.

If you want good coffee you need three things. I spent about 20 years trying to poor my way into good coffee before I spent the money I needed to and finally started getting good coffee. You'll make the 700-800 bucks back in a few months of not drinking overpriced starbucks.

1) A decently good espresso machine. I got a Gaggia Classic for about 400 bucks, but feel free to spend more if you need to dispense more than a few shots at a time. Really the espresso machine is the part that everyone focuses on and it's not super important in the big scheme of things so long as it gets the water decently hot (ie, all of the water, not just the heating element) and makes a respectable amount of pressure and is generally not composed of cheap plastic.

2) A good grinder. Baratza Precisio for 350 is the cheapest I could find a good grinder for and believe me I tried to poor my way out of this. The difference between a good grinder and a shit grinder is like night and day. Unless you can get small size grounds that are consistently the same size, you basically don't have the ability to dial in the flavor of your coffee. Without a good grinder, you're fucked. You can take the best machine in the world and feed crappy grinds of good coffee through it and it will taste bad. Grind is really fucking important.

edit: You can tamp and block flow (there are baskets that do this) to work your way around of some degree of grinder deficiency, but really there is no substitute for having a real grinder. Do it and don't look back. As I said above, I tried to poor my way out of this for many many years and the first time I used the good grinder I knew I had been a fool the whole time. Every trick you have thought of to get around buying a good grinder, I have tried at least twice.

3) Fresh coffee. Starbucks is shit coffee that is over-roasted to hide the fact that it's low quality and not fresh. That being said, at least it's arabica, which is better than your folgers. Anyway, find a local coffee roaster and get stuff that was roasted within the past week. Get medium roasted stuff made from fresh beans from decent growers. It tastes a million times better.

edit: it goes without saying that you should not grind coffee and then store it. You grind exactly the amount of coffee you need and then you push the water through it immediately after tamping.

Yep, heard this already, I'm going to stay away from it until I know enough to tell the difference

$80/lb sounds like the beans that the little creatures poop out.

Yes. That's also a thing.

I actually watched that whole documentary :laugh:
im seriously fascinated with this stuff lately (gourmet/craft/expensive "quality over quantity" stuff)

Starbucks was revolutionary in terms of how much higher quality it was than the coffee of the 80s and earlier, which was usually a freeze dried mix of overroasted robusta, rat droppings and sawdust. That being said, it's fallen behind the times and there are much better alternatives these days.

Starbucks made the current situation possible by making good coffee a thing that people care about and are willing to spend money for.

Serious question:

Is a $300 coffee machine worth $300? Are aeropresses really da bomb? Is a $30 aeropress superior to a $300 machine? Is so, why? Is not, why not? And how much of this is the same sort of gear-masturbation that convinced recreational cyclists to buy $5,000 carbon-fiber frames that weigh less than my genitalia?

I'm no coffee snob, not by far. Beer snob? Yes. But my daily fix at work comes out of a Keurig, and my espresso maker is a 40 year old stovetop moka pot that probably contains lead and hexavalent chromium, but is what I was taught to use as a child to make the peculiar eye-opening brew which Cubans toss down by the thimblefull.

The closest thing I've ever used to what's being discussed here was a French press, and I didn't care for it. Messy, inconvenient, and it made bitter coffee with lots of shit in the bottom.





Maybe it's just a personal taste thing, but I've never cared for Starbucks coffee. I don't drink it often, but when I have, it seemed to me to have an overpowering, somewhat burnt taste. As though it's deliberately brewed over-strength so that you can still taste coffee once it's been diluted with whatever random shit they put in most of their drinks, at the expense of being able to be enjoyed black.

Yeah the overpowering burnt taste is the overroasting speaking. Their medium roasts are darker than my local roaster's espresso roasts.

What I recommended above is not gear whoring in the slightest. I can't tell you about the benefits or drawbacks of french press or aeropress because I don't do either, but you pretty much can't do good espresso for less than 600-700 bucks. I have seen some really nice hand grinders for the 200-300 range, but if you want a setup you can order off amazon, you just have to spend the money. If there was something cheaper that didn't produce shitty coffee, I'd be using it.

It's kind of like the attitude a lot of miata guys (including myself) have to suspension choices. How many people here have looked at the price of xidas/fcms/etc and talked themselves into buying some 1000-1500 dollar suspension setup that isn't half as good? And how many of us eventually end up buying the expensive stuff in the end anyway?

Oh shit I just realized you're in New York City. If you're in Manhattan, go to Culture Espresso Bar on 38th Street, just to the East of 6th Ave. Order an espresso from there or maybe a macchiato (same with a dab of milk). They have good equipment and fresh beans and they know what the fuck they are doing. You will not be disappointed.

The stuff I make at home is about 95 percent as good as what they make. The difference is that they just press a button and get a perfect amount of grounds dispensed from their 1200 dollar grinder. Their giant espresso machine lets them make 10,000 beverages in a day without the machine running out of heat or screwing things up. It's kind of like how a street miata can be as fast as a track miata but cost half as much... but it wouldn't last through an enduro.

I can't speak to a $700 espresso machine, as I've never owned one. But you'll find a $10 moka pot in the kitchen of every self-respecting Latin-American family, and I can brew a mean cafecito with one.


Yup, Manhattan. I live in the UES, and work on east 42nd between Grand Central and the UN building. They're less than a mile from my office- I may stop in there and check them out some morning.

Are you from the area?

Yeah I grew up there, moved out for college, go back to visit family. I left in the early 90s.

BTW, the espresso machine I have is 400 dollars. The grinder was 350. I've tried various alternatives at lower price points and I think I'm pretty much bottomed out as far as price goes.

How fickle fate is. I grew up just south of Tampa (Port Charlotte) and worked my way through Cincinnati, San Diego and Silicon Valley to wind up in NYC.


Yeah, I'm definitely not that passionate about coffee. Had about that much tied up in homebrew equipment at one time, but these days I get my beer in bottles.

Cuban coffee is about the only espresso-type drink I brew with any regularity, and I honestly just can't see how a $500 machine is going to greatly enhance my Café Bustelo. Maybe that's why I'm missing the point.


But alas, I [/threadjack].

Chemex pot is a good option for those who want a relatively cheap way to brew multiple cups at a time.

When I lived in Charlotte, my coworker's husband was from Cuba.
He turned me onto the magical glory of a silly $60 Krups machine from ebay and a can of Cafe Bustelo.
Magical stuff. While it didn't extract espresso under real pressure (and was considered to be the equivalent of Racelands for "espresso machines") it made damned fine Cuban coffee.

I used that machine for a good five or six years, turning out things that tasted better than 80% of the espressos I'd buy, before stepping up to a $200 used machine that required about $150 in parts to rebuild.

That, plus a used $100 commercial grinder from the local restaurant supply company had me upping my game. "Real" espresso brewed under pressure. Real "creme" from extracting all the oils/etc. from the beans. Total investment was still less than $500 for what would have taken $1200 or so (if new).

I've been rocking this setup now for about four or five years and have zero desire to step it up to the next level.
I'd need to invest about $800-$1200 for a different grinder and about $2,000 for the next level espresso machine. And that's turbo Miata money.

Right now, there are a few places that make a better tasting espresso on a regular basis. A few. But honestly, given the price point I'm at, I've very happy with what I can produce at the house.

And while it's not quite as clean as what a $2,000 grinder could produce, it's close enough given what it would take to improve it.
(Kind of like my revalved Bilstein setup. Close enough to Xida ride comfort and performance for me... especially when you factor in the price difference.)

<p>Then there is the whole Turkish, Brazillian, Bosnian styles that use coffee as fine as talcum powder and the grounds are either left to settle (in the pot or the cup) or poured through a cloth filter (Brazil).</p><p>Different brewing technique and totally different experience. Very satisfying if done correctly.</p>

Joe the $30 aeropress is certainly worth at least 3 $100 drip machines, if not more.

I fill my 600ml beaker with water and just microwave the same amount of time every time once I figured out the brew temp I liked. Pull the press all the way open, put two scoops worth of coffee in the press, wet the filter, fill it to the top with the hot water, and let it sit for 2 minutes. Then flip it over the cup I already added sugar too and just press down with the weight of my head, because its the morning and I havent coffeed yet, until I hear the sound of air going through the filter. Squirt the rest of the coffee into the sink, then pop the top off and dump it into the trash and rinse it off. All thats left is to fill the mug with the rest of the hot water and add whatever milk like substance you like, if thats your thing. I like using espresso grinds in it to get a strong and robust cup, but you can use whatever you like.

:likecat::likecat:

Sounds the same as what I described.

Drinking this exact method now. Honestly, using the same coffee in aeropress as above versus brown-stained white Mr. Coffee machine probably determines the flavor of the brew as much as a different bean.