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Old 08-05-2011, 05:56 PM   #21
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I have nothing useful to contribute, as I think that large laptops are pointless.
I can't decide. I think part of the problem is that I'm starting to get frustrated with the limitations of my Lenovo S10, and so a larger laptop with a large widescreen seems attractive.

But I do like the lightweight and portability of the S10 (aside from the terrible battery life). And a 12" screen with 1280px would be much better than 10" with 1024px.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:48 PM   #22
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I really did like that Sony of mine. I still consider it the Gold Standard of laptops.

When it came time to buy a new one, I really felt like I was having to make a serious compromise by moving up to a 12" display. I do still wish that I'd been able to find a unit with both a smaller screen and a non-Atom / E350 processor, but all in all I've been quite happy with the Dell E4200.

I looked at that Lenovo S205, and were it not for the CPU, I'd have seriously considered buying it. Same with the new Y-series Vaio. Another potentially excellent computer ruined by a shitty processor.

It's really laughable what manufacturers are classing as "ultraportable" these days. Like the Vaio S, for instance. Four and a half pounds and a 13.3" display? What a joke. Sony went through a very brief period in the late '00s where they actually made a couple laptops that were clearly superior to anything else available. Now they're just churning out the same crap as everybody else and charging twice as much.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:26 PM   #23
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I suggest getting a 14'' laptop. They are very small these days and anything smaller screen wise pisses me off. Too hard to read.

That being said if you don't want to... take a look at this. Add on a few extras like Office and you're good to go.
http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-mini1012/pd
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:48 PM   #24
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No more Atom processors for me. They have no mahbles.
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:54 PM   #25
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You can only get so much in a 10'' laptop these days. Gotta step it up to a 13/14'' to get at least an i3.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:34 PM   #26
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You can only get so much in a 10'' laptop these days. Gotta step it up to a 13/14'' to get at least an i3.
That's exactly my point.

A few years ago, you could buy 11" machines with what were then the current generation high-end processors.

Today, you can only buy 11" machines with processors which are less powerful than the ones from three years ago.

Technology has gone backwards. That makes Sad Panda sad.

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Old 08-05-2011, 08:41 PM   #27
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I5s and I7s in the 11 inch MacBook Air, metal case, SSDs, backlit keyboard, lightweight, great battery life, great resale value, runs Windows natively or virtually along with Apple's OS, thunderbolt…not for 400 bux though lol.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:54 PM   #28
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I actually did strongly consider the 11" Macbook Air when I was laptop shopping last year. Nice display, good keyboard, and the right form-factor.

A couple of specific things killed it for me.

First, the battery is a complete fail. 35 Wh vs. 56Wh on my Dell, and I carry a second 56 Wh battery with me, which is not an option with the Mac. (Yes, I know, I could buy an external aftermarket battery and plug it into the machine with a tether. That is also fail.)

Second, no wired ethernet. Yes, I know, I could carry around a USB-Ethernet dongle, but this isn't 2002. I expect certain amenities.

Third, I don't like the touchpad. I have always been in the habit of resting my thumb on the left button while doing any sort of touchpad-intensive work, and since the Macbook doesn't even have physical buttons, it interprets that as a gesture. Again, fail. (An HP machine that I was otherwise going to buy also failed on this criteria.)

It's a shame. The price is actually pretty reasonable for what you're getting (it is far cheaper than the Vaio TX /TT / TZ were when they were new) and I like the overall design.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:58 PM   #29
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I actually did strongly consider the 11" Macbook Air when I was laptop shopping last year. Nice display, good keyboard, and the right form-factor.

A couple of specific things killed it for me.

First, the battery is a complete fail. 35 Wh vs. 56Wh on my Dell, and I carry a second 56 Wh battery with me, which is not an option with the Mac. (Yes, I know, I could buy an external aftermarket battery and plug it into the machine with a tether. That is also fail.)

Second, no wired ethernet. Yes, I know, I could carry around a USB-Ethernet dongle, but this isn't 2002. I expect certain amenities.

Third, I don't like the touchpad. I have always been in the habit of resting my thumb on the left button while doing any sort of touchpad-intensive work, and since the Macbook doesn't even have physical buttons, it interprets that as a gesture. Again, fail. (An HP machine that I was otherwise going to buy also failed on this criteria.)

It's a shame. The price is actually pretty reasonable for what you're getting (it is far cheaper than the Vaio TX /TT / TZ were when they were new) and I like the overall design.

I dunno. Every time I'm "forced" to use a winlaptop I am so happy to get back to the Mac. The large trackpad is a key ease of use feature..ONCE you get used to it. Has some of the benefits of the better touchscreen phones really.

I've had various Sony Vaio which I enjoyed but they don't compare to the Apple stuff IMO, especially these days.

Check out the new Airs…they are a nice upgrade over the old ones. They are 5 hour and 7 hour battery life machines, realistically rated. How much more do you need between charging periods?

I always tell folks to consider easy high resale value aspect when they are considering value. This lowers the overall price long term if you can deal with the float. Around me you can sell Apple stuff the same day very easily, to nice no-hassle people.
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Old 08-06-2011, 01:17 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I actually did strongly consider the 11" Macbook Air when I was laptop shopping last year. Nice display, good keyboard, and the right form-factor.

A couple of specific things killed it for me.

First, the battery is a complete fail. 35 Wh vs. 56Wh on my Dell, and I carry a second 56 Wh battery with me, which is not an option with the Mac. (Yes, I know, I could buy an external aftermarket battery and plug it into the machine with a tether. That is also fail.)

Second, no wired ethernet. Yes, I know, I could carry around a USB-Ethernet dongle, but this isn't 2002. I expect certain amenities.

Third, I don't like the touchpad. I have always been in the habit of resting my thumb on the left button while doing any sort of touchpad-intensive work, and since the Macbook doesn't even have physical buttons, it interprets that as a gesture. Again, fail. (An HP machine that I was otherwise going to buy also failed on this criteria.)

It's a shame. The price is actually pretty reasonable for what you're getting (it is far cheaper than the Vaio TX /TT / TZ were when they were new) and I like the overall design.

This kind of ---- retentive thinking is making me more and more excited for my lap top to get here.
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Old 08-06-2011, 03:26 AM   #31
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The large trackpad is a key ease of use feature..ONCE you get used to it. Has some of the benefits of the better touchscreen phones really.
Yeah, a friend of mine has one of the larger units, and the touchpad does have certain benefits. Unfortunately, those fancy features only work when running MacOS and applications which support them.

I don't want to start an OS argument, I'll just be honest- I use this machine for work, and the majority of the applications that I run on it are only available for Windows. I know this for a fact, because we wrote them. So running MacOS just isn't an option for me. Even if I'm running Windows inside a window under MacOS, it's still Windows, and both it and the applications that run under it are designed to function with the style of touchpad which is commonly found on Windows-native laptops, not the style of touchpad found on Macs or iPhones. My Android phone uses many gesture-style inputs (stretch, squeeze, swipe, fling bird at pig, etc) and they work great in that environment. But that's because the OS and the applications are specifically written to accommodate them.

While the Dell supports a number of interesting gestures (most of which are some variant of a swirly thing), the only gesture that I have enabled on it is the sidebar scroll, and that emulates a feature (the wheel) that's been standard on Win-centric mice for over a decade at this point and continues to be a primary design element. It works nicely, and I honestly can't say that I have ever found myself wanting for more, at least within the sort of applications that I use (databases, grid displays, text editors, etc.)


Quote:
I've had various Sony Vaio which I enjoyed but they don't compare to the Apple stuff IMO, especially these days.
Yeah, I used to be a die-hard Vaio guy, and I still respect the hell out of the TX / TT / TZ series (they are unmatched to this day in my mind), but they've really gone and fucked things up the past couple of years. For all I care, they can all choke on a bowl of dicks at this point.

That isn't to say that I would not gladly shove this entire Dell up my own ******* and pay $2,000 for the next-generation Vaio T(x)-series machine if they ever actually made one (and be happy to have been given the privilege of doing so) but Sony has made it clear that they have absolutely no intention of servicing this sector of the market for the foreseeable future.



Quote:
Check out the new Airs…they are a nice upgrade over the old ones. They are 5 hour and 7 hour battery life machines, realistically rated. How much more do you need between charging periods?
Like I said, I did research them quite thoroughly last year, and the only things that have really changed since then are the CPUs and that pointless thunderball port that isn't naively compatible with anything except for one particular monitor that no sane person would ever plug an Airbook into. Oh, and that means that I can't plug the laptop into the hotel TV to watch a movie without carrying around yet another dongle to convert it into a port that something made by a company other than Apple will accept. Apart from my eleven year old tablet and my 25 year old Radio Shack Model 100, every portable computer which I have ever owned (including this Dell) has included either a VGA or an HDMI output, and those are compatible with the TVs in newer hotels.

As to battery life, there are several factors at play here. First, if I'm flying from coast to coast (which I do frequently) then I probably have a layover in either ATL or DFW. With no delays, it's usually 7 or 8 hours from terminal to terminal. Add in a delay or a missed connection and you're looking at 10-12. Flying to Europe? 14 hours.

Yeah, airports are getting better about locating AC outlets in public places, but it's still a crap shoot. And AC power is available at maybe 5% of airline seats, even in first class.

All else being equal, I prefer not to have o actively forecast my battery utilization.

And of course, that five-hour capacity... Even if it is completely realistic (and at 35 Wh, it probably isn't if you're watching Divx movies), that number is only good when the battery is brand-spanking new. Lithium batteries may be the best thing since sliced bread, but they still degrade. Even if you never cycle it, a typical LiIon battery loses 10-20% of its useful capacity per year. So after just two years, that optimistic 5 hour runtime will be 3-4 hours. That wouldn't even get me through a single afternoon of running from studio to studio doing firmware updates without having to lug the AC adaptor around with me and find a place to plug it in in every room that I enter.



Actually, I just noticed something- the 11" machine doesn't have an SD card slot. What the **** is up with that? This may be the only laptop in production today (at any price) which does not support the single most common nonvolatile memory standard in the history of mankind. Again, I realize that I could carry around yet another dongle to plug into one of the two USB ports so that I can download the photos from my camera, but why? (Do I get a set of steak knives once I'm up to six external dongles?)



Quote:
I always tell folks to consider easy high resale value aspect when they are considering value.
I suppose that if you're the sort of person who is constantly upgrading to the latest and best that this is a valid point, and I won't try to argue that any other brand can match it. But for me, personally, it's not a concern. For one, I can afford not to re-sell my old laptop when I'm done with it. And frankly, I tend to use laptops until they're pretty much toast. I'm not deliberately rough on them, but I travel a lot. So I'm constantly moving them from place to place, accidentally dropping them, picking them up and moving them while there's still something attached to one of the ports, having other people toss **** on top of them, etc. By the time I'm finished with a laptop, it's usually ready for the shitheap.

Now that I think about it, it's a miracle that my Vaio still works- the case is cracked in several places, the paint is worn off from half the keys, and I've had to replace the hard drive, the headphone jack, and one of the USB ports. And yet the damn thing still works like it was new. It's a crime that Sony chose to cripple it with an arbitrary 1.5 GB memory limit. It'd still be my primary machine today were it not for that.




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Originally Posted by curly View Post
This kind of ---- retentive thinking is making me more and more excited for my lap top to get here.
Well, I do hope you like it. Like I said, it's going to suck until you upgrade the RAM, but once that's done, it really is a very nice machine.
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Old 08-06-2011, 03:38 AM   #32
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Im clueless when it comes to laptop ram. What's good, and what fits. Got a few links for me? I'm comfortable installing it, but you mentioned a $23 4gb, but the specs say it'll only accept up to 3gb.
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Old 08-06-2011, 12:58 PM   #33
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How good is the wifi radio on those Dells? I usually "borrow" the connection from my neighbors rather that bothering to tether my phone...but it's a weak signal. I need something that has good wifi range.
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Old 08-06-2011, 01:24 PM   #34
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How good is the wifi radio on those Dells? I usually "borrow" the connection from my neighbors rather that bothering to tether my phone...but it's a weak signal. I need something that has good wifi range.
Ever travel on business and get a room with crummy WiFi meanwhile you have work to do? Sometimes there are no other rooms into which to switch. I don't feel like doing my email from the hotel lobby. So I use a WiFi antenna that plugs into a USB slot. Has at least a 1/4 mile range, more line of sight. Even if you can get a connection, a stronger signal is better so that your speed is up to snuff.
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Old 08-06-2011, 02:30 PM   #35
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Im clueless when it comes to laptop ram. What's good, and what fits. Got a few links for me? I'm comfortable installing it, but you mentioned a $23 4gb, but the specs say it'll only accept up to 3gb.
Geeks isn't always very good about their specs. The Dell tech sheet and the Dell Quick Reference Guide say that it'll accept up to a 4GB DIMM (plus the 1GB onboard) for a total of five. Mine has five (though of course it's not all accessible to due the fact that I run a 32 bit OS.)

Memory is getting to be a bit confusing. I general, I typically go to Crucial.com and use their Memory Advisor™ tool. (Or I look in the manual.)

The E4200 uses DDR3, and it will accept either -8500 or -10600 speed classes. (Note also that DDR3 comes in two sizes- 240 pin for desktops, 204 pin for laptops.)

Here are some units that would work:


PNY Optima MN4096SD3-1066 ($23.99 with free shipping from NewEgg)

AllComponents AC3/SO1066X64/4096 ($24.99 with free shipping from NewEgg)

G.SKILL F3-8500CL7S-4GBSQ ($24.99 with free shipping from NewEgg, plus $5 off w/ promo code EMCKBKH35)

Crucial CT51264BC1339 ($29.99 from Tiger Direct)

Corsair CMSO4GX3M1A1333C9 (in stock at the Fry's in Wilsonville for $37.)

Etc.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
How good is the wifi radio on those Dells? I usually "borrow" the connection from my neighbors rather that bothering to tether my phone...but it's a weak signal. I need something that has good wifi range.
I can't say that I've ever tried to use multiple laptops side by side with the same WiFi network, so I don't feel as though I have a good basis for comparison.

On the whole, it is adequate. I seem to have fewer problems in hotels than I did with my old Sony, though that's hardly a scientific observation. (It could just be that hotels are installing more access points.) I've never had a problem with it at an airport or on a jobsite.

I would think that for your application, it might be worth purchasing a
cheap WiFi repeater cheap WiFi repeater
or maybe even a device
such as this one such as this one
which is specifically designed for theft of service. (I'm not kidding, read the reviews. "Wardriving" is specifically listed as one of the applications for it.)




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Originally Posted by sjmarcy View Post
Ever travel on business and get a room with crummy WiFi meanwhile you have work to do? Sometimes there are no other rooms into which to switch. I don't feel like doing my email from the hotel lobby. So I use a WiFi antenna that plugs into a USB slot.
Yeah, fortunately the Dell has an RJ-45 ethernet port on the back, and I find that a lot of hotels still offer wired connectivity. I've only ever been in one hotel with this machine where I was unable to establish a connection by one of these two means- a corner room at the Hudson Hotel on 58th. I just had them move me to another room. (Sidebar: don't ever stay at the Hudson. It's clean and modern and pretty all that jazz, but it's also an annoyingly self-righteous piece of **** that places fashion above comfort.)
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:47 PM   #36
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Kind of tempted by this. Wish I knew if the AMD Fusion would be slow like my Atom-powered S10 is, or if it would be comparable to the Dell in speed.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?inv...22U-DT&cat=NBB
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:46 AM   #37
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Gracias Joe!
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Old 08-08-2011, 03:02 AM   #38
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Kind of tempted by this. Wish I knew if the AMD Fusion would be slow like my Atom-powered S10 is, or if it would be comparable to the Dell in speed.
That Lenovo is yet another of the many machines that I looked at last year. I actually like it a lot, except that the CPU is only marginally faster than doing math with a dull pencil.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net is an excellent reference tool for this sort of thing.

Sadly, the AMD Fusion E-240 isn't even close to being a real processor. It ranks between an old Pentium 3 and a current-gen single core Atom. Here are a few excerpts of PassMark test results from the above link:

Pentium 3-S 1.4 Ghz: 347
AMD E-240: 353
Atom N470 (single core): 355
(...)
Atom N570 (dual core): 640
(...)
Core2Duo (SU9400): 966 (Curly's Dell)
(...)
Core i3 (330UM): 1193
(...)
Core i5 (430UM): 1430

The AMD Fusion E-240 is closer to a Commodore 64 than it is to the Core2Duo in the Dell E4200.



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Gracias Joe!
No prob.

If you decide that Vista isn't your thing and you want to downgrade to XP, I have a CD that's pre-slipstreamed with the correct AHCI drivers, though all the rest of the drivers still need to be installed manually. But give it a shot as-is. The only reason I downgraded mine is because of one specific app which I need for work that will only run reliably in XP.
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:33 AM   #39
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Sadly, the AMD Fusion E-240 isn't even close to being a real processor. It ranks between an old Pentium 3 and a current-gen single core Atom.
Yuck, that rules out the Lenovo. I've done 95% of my work on an Atom-based netbook for the past 2 years. No more.

I may pull the trigger on the Dell today. Talked to my boss on Friday and he agreed I could use a new laptop. No love for Vista, but I can run XP until I can find a cheap copy of Win7.
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Old 08-08-2011, 01:25 PM   #40
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Yuck, that rules out the Lenovo. I've done 95% of my work on an Atom-based netbook for the past 2 years. No more.
I just don't understand why the manufacturers continue on this race to the bottom.

One of the machines that I was looking at was an HP based on the E-350, which was brand new at the time. That chip actually rates a moderately respectable 729 on the PassMark test, which is still a long way from the Core2Duo, but markedly better than the Atom N570. In the end, I opted for the better CPU, even though I liked a lot of things about that HP.

When I saw the new E-240, I was surprised to say the least. It never even occurred to me that AMD might deliberately choose to expend engineering effort designing an even crappier version of an already inadequate CPU.

And now, as if just to screw with my head even further, they've released the C-series. The C-30 scores, are you ready for this... 231 on the PassMark test.

231? That is slower than an AMD Duron M, which is an eleven year old design which failed to compete with even the Celeron. It's slower than a 1 Ghz P3-M, for crying out loud, and that architecture dates back to 1999!


You've gotta be real careful when CPU shopping these days. There's a lot of "brand new" stuff on the market which is just complete and total crap.
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