LEGAL Immigration, But not Illegal
 

To All Illegal Immigrant Protestors -
http://home.comcast.net/~tramp99/image0011.jpg
Please return Immediately - There has been a recall, and you are needed back home!

EDIT: And anyone who believes that their (illegal immigrants) rights are being violated. And could you please learn to speak the language if you want to live here! :vash:

Fing Great!!

dumb and ignorant
 

you are ignorant, this is about miatas not little bullshit comments...Iam hispanic
deser

Did I say Hispanics? NO! I said Illegal Immigrant!
And please read the category title:
< insert BS here > A place to discuss anything you want
I don't think it says MIATA.

its all good
 

its all good..............deser

LOLA - 92, by they way, there is no language for anyone to learn....

Maybe English, LOKI?
I know that it is tough, but if I decided to move to South America I would want to learn to speak & read Spanish fluently out of respect for the inhabitants of the specific region. :ugh2:

Noooo no Lola! They are called "undocumented workers" not Illegal Immigrants. Doesnt that make it all better? :gay: I love how they tried to punish the american people and failed. I love how their susporters dont even realise that an influx of more illegal immgrants will push wages even lower for the people who are legal citizens. Way to go!

If you want you're wages to be shitty and the cities filled with illegals with no licences nor insurance thats fine with me. Just dont be mad when they hit your miata, get hurt and then get free medical that we have to pay for. Oh and did I meantion these awesome "Undocumented workers" dont pay any taxes? Doesnt sound really fair.

Theres no official language in the US, LOLA.... soo maybe any other language you can think of....

Esperanto?

"Would you leave the door to your house open for anyone to walk in and do what they want?" was my wife's comment on our politicians not securing our borders. She is a naturalized U.S. citizen from Peru that made it her first priority to learn English when she came here.

If were going that route Pig Latin should be an option too

except in Brazil they speak Portuguese, in Belize they speak English, and there is a huge population in Argentina that speaks Italian and German. Would you learn "out of respect" or out of necessity? A lot of areas don't speak Spanish, they speak the pre-colonial indigenous language as well.

Do you want to pay an increase of 200% for all the produce you eat? I don't want to. Are we willing/able to pay for the increase in cost of living that would go up to pay for unionized labor that would demand at least if not more than minimum wage?

We don't pay $4 a gallon for gas or $100 for a 20lb bag of rice or $2 for a decent apple or $3 for a 1/3 loaf of bread as they do in Japan, which is the cost of having minimal undocumented workers doing work.

On NPR, they said that about 1/4 of the farming industry, 1/4 of the construction industry's workforce is undocumented workers.

They also pay taxes just like every Tom, Dick, and Harry... sales tax is significant in any state outside of Delaware and Oregon.

Oh, and yer probably thinking I'm a liberal Californicator. I'm independent but tend to vote Republican FWIW.

Bottom Line: I just don't know of any good solution that won't siphon off fun money to pay for basic necessities.

I'm all for Americans. Illegals aren't as cool as you think.

oof. that's gotta be a joke.

Yes they are great americans becuase they pay sales tax. :gay: Yup they pay 8% on everything they buy. (well around there) While I pay that plus I get a lovely 15-20% of my check taken out each month to pay for things such as services for illegal immigrants! Score! Dude dont even start on that sales tax bullshit. Please stop calling them undocumented workers, becuase not all of them are working (Yup those 20 guys outside of home depot all day are working!) and a good deal of them have faked documents in order to work. They are breaking our laws no matter how you rephrase what they are.

EDIT: Oh by the way. Do you think those expensive apples, most of the rice and other crap is grown/made in japan? HA! Yes their prices are expensive on some things but thats becuase almost all of it is shipped in. In the US we grow a lot of shit and have tuns of cattle. Now if we kicked out most of the illegals and then forced lazy wellfair bum dads to work they would do these jobs. Who did all the shitty jobs in the past? Po' white trash! Think about it, would you rather work in a dangerous meatpacking plant or just collect a check and sit at home and drink?

Our farming, meatpacking and other industrys need massive improvements. They are backbreaking, dangerous and dont pay shit becuase illegals are working the jobs for next to nothing. They pay an unfair, fucked up wage. They know its good thats why they fight to keep it that way. Do we really want an immgrant (low wage) slave class in the US? The more we let in the lower wages will get for the people at the bottom.

I chose the latter...

Just so everyone knows Home Depot is a place for day laborers to meet. They wait there hoping to get jobs for the day. Someone who needs extra man power goes there in the morning and picks up as many guys as he needs and pays them for the day...

Actually the expensive rice and produce is because it IS produced in Japan. Check out http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4907742.stm for more info.

Although Japan imports the majority of the food, it's not most of the food 60% imported and 40% locally produced.

Japanese people shy away from eating foreign made food. When Japan had a drought in the mid 90s and the rice crop failed, consumers were forced to buy Thai rice and they threw it away after buying it. However, when US beef was banned, it really jacked up the cheap beef supply in Japan causing many fast food joints to close.

I do agree that they are breaking our laws in being here; but at the same time you cannot deny that we Amercians do reap the benefits of undocumented workers. (I do realize that there are illegal immigrants which don't work, but in the context of this dialogue, I'm not taking into consideration those who don't work.)

Ultimately, you can't deny that the capitalist marketplace economy we live in has "chosen" to accept undocumented workers into the workplace.

Any more discussion, we can take it offline. Oh btw, I didn't go to the rallies the other day nor do I support nationalization of those who are in the nation illegally; but how do we solve the problem of providing cheap products with a minimum wage?

We can tangent off to the trade defecit with China, but as long as WalMart is king (I don't shop there) then we will have a trade defecit with China.

If I were to make Garage Vary knock-off headlight lids Made in China and sell em for $10, you'd buy em. $20 you'd probably buy em still too. I know I would.

Sure the Renminbi is artificially devalued, but we reap the value of that too.

Bottom line is we're trying to have our cake and eat it too.

I don't agree but then you have your own opinion. It's not like we haven't known or had cheap products in the past. We all grew up and the price of an apple never really went up too much...yet it's the influx of cheap illegal workers that have allowed it all this time?? Where do you want to get hurt more..shelling out a coulpe more cents for an apple and produce or suddenly realize when you go to retire that you can't because your government had to spend all it's money taking care of people who didn't belong there to begin with?

i cant believe you guys talk that shit about illegal immigrants. espercially the map of mexico. i am mexican and i never would say anything about you guys. also as we go back in to history if you know your history you guys would see that the united states was part of mexico. and to make it worse mexicans crossed the damb river but whites crossed the ocean. so please dont talk shit about mexicans because they dont do shit to you guys anyways. you would never work in the fields and if you get more money taken away from your pay check is because you guys havent had the guts to vote for a law that would make agricultural or any other immigrant that works for their family as legal permanent residents.

So don't offend us IF you guys dont want to be offended!

wow... whats going on?look at it this way, the us has a border(so you cant cross it) for those who cross it, they must be punished. period. i feel bad of course, but shit, lets all as americans go rob a bank and see what happens. life's not fair guys. just deal with it... if life were fair, we'd have tight-hooked up miatas to our likings and have beer fountains and the girls or our dreams.
good day

No lets not take it offline thats what this forum is for, bullshitting :bigtu: . Maybe you guys misunderstand my point. I dont hate mexicans, central americans or anything. Infact I wish they were paid a fair wage.

I hate the fucking companies that pay them the bullshit low wages. I wish everyone in america would be payed a fair wage illegal or not. See the thing is if the companies stoped hireing illegals and payed american citizens a fair wage people would stop hopping the border to get over here. The real problem is created by the companies not the people that just want a better life.

I dont care that they are coming over becuase it doesnt really affect me and at the same time I am upset that they are violating our laws and using resources that could be put to use for our citziens.

Oh about those hard workers out side of home depot; they are known in my area to steal tools out of your truck/car if they can get away with it. Some of these guys are real fuckers. Like in all places there is good AND bad.

I dont hate mexicans but I do hate people that break our laws. If they happen to be mexican, chinese what have you I hate them.
I can get caught speeding all the time yet they can chill in a country that they ('they' doesnt mean mexicans it means all people who are in the contry illegally.) dont even legally live in with no issues.

EDIT: Oh and fucking stop with that evil white man bullshit. I never crossed any fucking ocean or anything. I am a comptuer nerd that was born in CA that cant take over shit. In case you forgot that most mexicans are a mix of the natives and spanish. The Spanish came over and fucked up mexico and south america nearly destroying the culture. The spanish are just as bad as the english, I would say in many ways they are worse from what I have read.
Also imagine for a second if Mexico still owned cali-texas. It would be just as fucked up as the rest of Mexico is. Mexicans would still go to the US even if mexico controlled most of the south west.

http://www.teampointless.com/apictures/Sackrace.jpg

for levity.

Too much Tequila? :gay:
P.S. I don't care if you're Mexican. What a silly statement.

:gtfo:

What part of ILLEGAL alien don't you understand? If it were logistically possible, I'd be all for rounding ALL of the illegals up (hispanic and otherwise) and deporting them. Nobody here is making statements about mexicans in general, just people who are here ILLEGALLY.

If a person wants to be in this country, they should go through the LEGAL channels to do so.

i agree. lets all park our miatas at the border and play watchdog. or better yet, lets get all the rich ceo guys and have them go to mexico and ruin their economy. see how they like it haha

Indeed!

It amazes me that people of any nationality or origin actually have the gall to think they have rights in a country they aren't citizens of. (basic human rights excepted) Absurd.

They have no rights in Mexico. And even the legal aliens in Mexico are restricted severely if they want to do more than visit.

first of all i was replying to that map that states thhe USA not yours and then it has mexico highlighted and says yours. basically it states that all illegal immigrants come from mexico and they should go back. which is not true. i dont really care what oyu guys/girls think as you dont care what i think just dont talk shit about mexico and that mexico is this or that because you guys have not lived their. basically you guys are talking about what you have heard and that is not the minimal of info. dont listen to what cnn or those other bullshit televisions stations say they are biased toward everything. to the reply on olderguy i have people who violate the laws too. if mexicans drink and drive they should be punished, like all. and also you may not have crossed the ocean i did not state you did i just stated that if mexicans crossed the river then whites crossed the ocean when they came here. same as mexicans crossing the river as they came here does not matter if its today or 1 million yeras ago. i did not cross the river and it should make me no ddiff than you because we both live and die even in simmilar ways.

ngarcia1983 -

You seem to be a very angry person.
What would you say that the percentage of Illegal Immigrants is (Nationality wise) here in the United States right now? Is there a breakdown of percentages somewhere? (Rough Estimate?)
My feeling is that the vast majority of Illegal Immigrants come from South of the Border! If I am wrong , please inform me otherwise.
Muchas Gracias,
Lola

Also...most people who I find get pissy are the ones who say that their parents crossed. Hey that's great..so long as they actually became citizens and weren't aiming for free load on taxes and all the benefits of saying you live in the U.S.
We aren't saying everyone mexican or everyone from mexico here now is wrong. Just those who choose to do it illegaly.

My point is if it's so bad in mexico..why run away from the problem? People should be working to fix the problems. Same goes for Cubans. If you don't like living under a dictator then overthrow your government. Hell in our constitutio n it says all americans have the right to overthrow their government if they feel it in inadequate.(right not observed...nor would it really work to kick the president out and say "hey it's my right!")

Point being...there is no legitimization for illegal workers or immigrants in the US. Legalize, or get out. Again...I would pay the money to have taxes go to the right places...rather than bi-lingual education in schools...bullshit.

ERRR WRONG! Even if you come here legally you dont have to learn english. Thats something that has to be changed on the federal level. Thats our fault not anyone elses.

My remark was about the disparity in the way aliens are treated in Mexico by the Mexican Government as opposed to in the U.S:

Ask non-citizens that are doing hard jail time in Mexico for trying to work, even after entering the country legally.

Ask about the treatment of anyone that tried to enter Mexico from the south.

SEPARATE SUBJECT:
Had our government enforced the laws enacted with the Amnesty in 1986, we would not be having this discussion today. It is not the "greedy employers" as much as it is the governments failure to enforce the laws on employers that broke them.

DISCLAIMER:
I have known, employed, befriended, and loved aliens both legal and illegal of many nationalities and have nothing against any individual that has come here to make a better life for himself/herself no matter how they have accomplished it. My arguments are with the false assertion of non-existent rights and demands of illegal immigrants; and abuse of illegal immigrants by employers because of their status.

:rofl:

at least ACT like you're playing nice.

i don't know the full compliment of facts from both sides, but i look at it from the point of view i heard from a former co-worker of mine.

he was a mechanical engineer from hungary, originally from romania. he was in his 40s at the time i worked for him and a legal canadian alien. he immigrated to north america from hungary in '89 soon after the soviet union collapsed. he made it over with his wife and young daughter to toronto. he was able to live and work in michigan as an engineer under the arrangements according to NAFTA. the last i had heard, he had spent almost 5 years and $15,000 USD to lawyers for his family and himself to become US citizens. it was ridiculous, he didn't complain about it, though, and kept doing what he was good at. he is, by far, one of the best engineers and people i have ever worked with in my 10 year career.

the naturalization process is a joke. it is very difficult and cumbersome, not to mention expensive. i understand the need for it and i certainly have respect for those who go the full term to have it done. those who come here illegally to find a better opportunity for themselves and/or their families, i have issues with. there has to be better controls in place. there is a bit of a witch hunt going on here in NC because a local school teacher was killed by an illegal immigrant who was drunk driving.

i think bruce and his wife made some of the best and most compelling analogies i've heard so far in this issue.

Bruce is married?
I thought he was :gay: . You have been leading me on Bruce! :nono:

Zip File
 

If you have Zip, you can open it:
It is EML file

Thats the schools fault blah blah blah, but then again if flag burning is constituational why isnt this? This isnt an illegal alien problem (all those kids could have been born here) Thats a first admendment dealy.

whether it's the schools fault or not, the whole deal is that no one is involved or wants to be, if people don't say something about it there will never be any differences made.

The whole bi-lingual education thing, yeah no one HAS to learn the language but the schools shouldn't be held accountable for teaching classes in 2 languages especially since it requires more tax money.

My great grandparents (on my mom's side) came here from Finland, they learned to speak english and for damn sure my grandmother was raised to speak english. She still lived in a area where a lot of people from finland settled (U.P. Michigan) but everyone at the time took pride in adapting and becoming american. As did the largest immigration population in america...Germans.

The "no official language" thing is just a bullshit way for people to cop out.

Personally I like that theres no official language, I like that people retain their language and heritage. Im happy with the way it is why would i say a thing? You need to get your point across mines already done for me :)

For all intents and purposes english is the "official" language of the USA.

My great grandparents came here from Germany and struggled with the language, but learned as best they could a adopted America as their home. They never asked to be taught in German or requested that signs be in German etc. My grandmother taught herself english and grammar even though she only was in school for three years. When I was a kid she'd correct me on my english/grammar, she was a whiz at word games and scrabble etc...I thought she was a retired teacher like my other grandmother, then one day she told me she only had a third grade education. I also learned that she was quite fluent in German as well but she had no accent.

Frankly there is no excuse to adopt a country as your home but refuse to learn the language. Its a cop out and lazy. There is nothing wrong with keeping your "old" language alive either. If one isn't lazy they can do both.

I dont know what tha means.... We dont have an official language you cant have for all intents and purposes cause if that were true peolpe would be forced to learn english even tho it isnt a law. :robert:

Well, how about if we learn the "American" Language?

Well if we doing american that means french, english, spanish and about 6 other languages are included :)

The point is that if the mass american people accept English as the language of use, then you can say for all intensive purposes it is the official language. The people decide the laws anyway and if the people feel that english is the official language then it might as well be down on paper.

Just because it's not written that it's the official language and that usage other wise is against the law doesn't mean that it can be exploited as an excuse not to adapt. The ruling probably isn't in the constitution because during that period people were afraid of confining the people under laws that the people would disagree with. Setting an official language seems constricting..but it's no different then setting a common currency.

In fact...the american monetary system could be very likened to language...the dollar bill you hold in your hand doesn't have any more value than paper. The value comes from the assumed meaning behind it. It represents it's value, it isn't actually worth anything. Just like words do... so does that mean we are supposed to open up and allow people to pay us in pesos? or how about rubles? no?.....francs?

Well dollar bills arent made of paper ;) But again your looking at it from the wrong view, a person can accept any currency he/she wants to, he/she isnt forced into using US currency. Theres the option there are place that do accept more than just US currency.

Just like a person can speak any language they want to. If they choose not to speak english then they will deal with the consequences. Plus knowing a little spanish doesnt hurt when it comes to senoritas

Senoritas?? ummm...right. I really don't know anyone who sweeps women away with spanish. French if anything...but um...yeah no. If you are talking about spanish speaking women who don't speak english...i'd rather not.

Yes there are consequences..there are locations that will take foreign currency but it's not a wide spread and "everywhere" deal...it's limited to those locations and everyone just knows to go there. That and when people do take foreign currency usually it's to exchange for U.S. bills. (i know it's not paper but it's easier to explain it that way).

One problem is that in some areas people who are too lazy to learn english are demanding to be taught in public school in their language and have American society conform to them, rather then adopting America and its customary language. Lazy is all that is. Some who "demand" such "rights" aren't even legal.

Im talking about legal citizens. They have the right...

Yeah...the right to learn english and quit being so damned lazy. :rolleyes:
Any way you slice it the notion that ANY group of people legally immigrate to the USA and then demand everything be done in some foreign language to suit THAT GROUP is ridicuous.

Your premise that we don't have a law that "enforces" english as "official" therefore such actions are reasonable is also absurd. If we follow this stupidity far enough then logically we should have all signs in at least 30 or 40 (if not more)languages because of course why would the rights of mexicans or spanish speaking be greater then say the rights of the immigrants from grasshuttlandia africa where the language is pigsnort or those from some russian republic or china or etc etc etc etc etc etc etc and for that matter why not include classes and signs in ebonics for the citizens who prefer that street giberish.

Like I said, its just people too fucking lazy to learn the customary language here...which is english. Perhaps such a law should be enacted to put an end to such bullshit 'special interest group' thinking.

well road way signs arent in any language so I dont know what that means about changing signs. Since there isnt a official language no one would have to change anything... Im not sure what you have your panties in a bunch about. They arent breaking the law, in fact the law is exactly what these legal citizens are abiding by. Its not my premise about the law, its the law. The only people who it inconviences is the goverment which is way inefficent as it is, if allowing applications and forms to be printed in other languages which those legal taxpayers have the right to request. They are paying the taxes they are legal citizens they can request wahtever they want. No ones forcing you to use the spanish tax return form.....

If its the extra burden to the finanical situation the federal goverment is in, you are look down the wrong alley.

Loki- I have been reading your ignorant crap for too long and I can no longer let you fool people anymore. What you need to do is drop out of college and return to high school as you really didnt learn even the basics. English language IS the law to become a citizen. Here is a quote from the uscis.gov website.

According to the law, applicants must
demonstrate:
• “an understanding of the English
language, including an ability to read,
write, and speak...simple words and
phrases...in ordinary usage in the
English language....”
• “a knowledge and understanding of the
fundamentals of the history, and of the
principles and form of government, of
the United States....”
This means that to be eligible for
naturalization, you must be able to read,
write, and speak basic English. You must
also have a basic knowledge of U.S.
History and Government (also known as
“civics”).

Most of your technical knowledge is good for the toilet as well.. you apparently are doing much more drinking in school then listening. Its too bad that somehow you managed to gain some sort of sick and twisted reputation for knowledge here.. I feel sorry for those that listen to even one word of ignorant BS that comes out of your mouth.

To the rest of you spewing anti-immigrant BS.. get off your dead beat asses and do something about it. Join the Minutmen association as I did and help spread the word.

To all you "Mexicans": this would not be about "Mexicans" if it weren't for the fact that no other nationality cannot follow our laws. If you think this country is yours then come and take it! We could take over your country with one M1-A tank! We made what a America is; not you! So shut the hell up and follow our laws... Awww... we are capped on entries now.. SORRY! YOU LOSE! Should have filled out the forms like we told you to now you aren't even on the list! Now go back to your country and try and avoid the water cuz it gives ya the sh!ts! Oh; and in a few weeks; I will be serving my time on the Phoenix border.. where if I find your dehydrated piece of sh!t a$$ trying to come across I will hand you a drink of water and put you on an air-condtioned bus back to your border.. thats how we do things in America at the moment.. soon that will change... Soon we will do what we did in New Orleans (and this is not public knowledge)... when the military (recently back from Iraq and totally accustomed to dealing with groups if idiots) encountered a group of individuals stealing; looting; raping.. they would simply make a head go away with a single round.. yes, the human head would virtually vaporize and no one would no where the shot came from.. this would make them all run in many directions and rethink about what they are doing... anyhow.. this is soon to happen at the border.. and Jose' will go back with the story.. should slow things down a bit...

You are right but the problem isn't them it is EL presedente Bush Sr.and Jr. who want to turn htis into mexico north as they increase the gap between the middle and upper class and do as much as possible to make sure we only have a lower and upper class from wich we serve him and his cronies. I believe the sniper scenario it is plausible you don't give someone a gun and tell him everyon i an enemy take care now and expect them ot come back wiht any reluctance to kill anyone or anything just look at what happened in vietnam different war same stupidity same results..

Wow. I must say, there are some interesting views/opinions on this board...many of which make me less proud to be an American :eek4:

(Can't wait to see what some of you crazy bastards read into that comment:bigtu: )

No. There is no conspiracy theory. Quit trying to put blame on someone for all the sh!t going down.. its stupid.. I've listened to guys like you go on and on how Bush actually arranged 9/11... stupid.

As for the vietnam comment.. dude get a edumacation... quit living in the past... let me help you here..

You got a group of people (many groups) in New Orleans.. stealing and raping 12yr olds. Now; we could do a few things.. now you pick Mr. Liberal..

1.) Look the other way and say its not my daughter getting a diseased cock shoved up her 12 yr old a$$ that will need therapy for the rest of her life and probably consider suicide.

2.) Yell harsh language.

3.) Fire rounds in the air and disperse the gang of f#ckheads.. for which they will just gather back up and start it again.. seen over and over..

4.) Take them all out... EASY.. but lots of lost life; bad press; and more hatred of anything anyone can try and pin it on from Bush on down..

5.) Vaporize the head of the f#cker with his dick out and watch the gang disperse in horror running for their mommies.. never to come back and probably needing psychological help for mental trauma which they needed in the first place for doing something like that to a helpless 12 yr old..


You choose flower boy. Or maybe you have a better idea? Lets hear it!

Also; these orders came from the top after repeated attempts with poor results... it's very effective in Iraq BTW.. minimizes life loss.. They never even see it coming.. its all radioed to a helicopter out of sight from ground troops using laser technology. The ordinance had a small explosive in it as to not leave any evidence.. there are no holes to analyze..

So this is not ground troops run rampid as you ignorantly suggest.... get the facts and quit making things up.. its sickening.

Freedom aint' easy my friend.. its not always pretty. I can sum this up for you.. there are many cases were the minority must suffer (ie the bad guys) so the majority can live in peace.

A parallel.. and I HATE this one.. because I love animals.. you take any medication? Or family members alive because of it? A dog suffered for your life my friend... think about that.. an innocent animal... we are dealing with SCUM here.. so what you cryin about?

this thread makes me REALLY glad that i live in canada, where we don't think it's necessary to "vapourize" the heads of people that try to move into our country.

hey i am by no means a pacifist or flower boy i just see the loss of life in Ieaq and veitnam as senseless distraction we could have done it wiht a nuke or we could have just got someone else to do it. We have accomplished nothing but the disruption of the region and angering htose around us moreso then ever. as for the kids in New orleans i have none but i wouldn't leave mine alone in a disaster area or let nayone touch them i did not say they where wrong for killing them i just said it didn't surprise me i wasn't there so i cant judge. I find it sad that the young like me are driven into the service by a lackluster job market and floundering economy to be led by a bunch of arm chair generals. the mas loss of life is often senseless but in some cases it can be justified. Chill out GI joe:crx: i am sympathetic to the plight but that doesn't mean i agree with the situation they put you in heck i almost did it myself but the numbers didn't make sense. Plus some of the punks they let throuhg there are pretty pathetic anyway:gay: :td: