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Old 05-10-2010, 05:37 PM   #1
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Default Lunch drive - Viper ACR

So my boss who got me into miatas likes cars and just finished a mint 1990 Miata - white Texas car with only 35K miles on. Brought it up here and over winter he put on an FM2 kit with associated tranny and exhaust, Afco, roll bar, brakes etc. He loves the car and it is his 3rd Miata. He also has a Viper ACR.
I tried the Miata sat night right after the UFC event. My 1st Turbo Miata drive and it was great, makes me want to start on mine but I still need a few little bits before I begin my build.

So today he drove his Viper to work. He said I should take it for a drive. Now I haven't been to the motocross track this year yet so my motor skills aren't sharpened up but I managed to stay pointing forward the whole time. I tried a tiny 1st gear rolling throttle - wheel spin. 2nd rolling to WFO - wheel spin. Even in 3rd aproaching 150km/hr one side hit the white painted markers and I got wheel spin. Lots of car = lots of respect. It would take a few days/weeks to get comfortable in town in that car. I see why 4 wheel drive supercars are plenty - it's just too easy to lose the rear end. I never even tried to explore cornering. I was a little shaky after getting out but it was fun. I prefer it when he drives as he knows the limits and can pay for any damage.
It's always understood you break it you buy it and if my insurance goes up you cover that too - fair but still intimidating. He likes to find people in the office that have "driven fast cars" and then he takes them for a drive. Most people get scared, freak out and now have an understanding of what quick really is. What i'd like to know is how bad would an F1 car be, 200 more HP and half the weight - it must take a while to get used to that kind of accelleration.
I remember when he had a Viper GTS, he was looking at an NSX just because they are rare and the lot close to work had one. They salesman said yep there pretty fast how about a drive, so off they went. He told the salesman that it was ok but nothing special. The salesman was a bit taken back almost offended and said its pertty much like his Viper, so he offered a ride in the GTS. After a few punches of the throttle the salesman said he had no idea it was like that. All that torque right now all the time - boom.

It's cool that his 2 performace cars are an ACR and a Miata.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:40 PM   #2
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Did you use your mouth on him? I know that when UFC is in town there's a constant barrage of closet bro-queers trying to use their mouths on me.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:56 PM   #3
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I'd lust after a Viper if they didn't have the exhaust note of a box van.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:59 PM   #4
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I'd lust after a Viper if they didn't have the exhaust note of a box van.
Never heard that before.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:02 PM   #5
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I tried to keep up with one at Gingerman raceway last year, it was futile.. 5 seconds faster is enough to make keeping up not happen
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:04 PM   #6
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I've known him for 15+ years and we ride moto together so he trusts me.

Sometimes the UFC ground and pound can gat a little weirdy for me.

The ACR had a nice burble, problem is he has an ECU and headers and so when he ever puts them in (doesn't trust local dealers) well see how it sounds then.
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:08 PM   #7
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I'd lust after a Viper if they didn't have the exhaust note of a box van.
So exhaust note is all that keeps you away?
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Old 05-10-2010, 07:27 PM   #8
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video of me overdriving one at a recent autocross. I liked the exhaust note especially as it nears and hits the limiter.
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:09 AM   #9
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From what I've read, the reason Vipers sound like they do is because they fire two cylinders at once and their firing order is odd due to its design. I know in my personal experience with V10s (6.8L F250), little can be done for a good exhaust note.
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:34 AM   #10
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From what I've read, the reason Vipers sound like they do is because they fire two cylinders at once and their firing order is odd due to its design. I know in my personal experience with V10s (6.8L F250), little can be done for a good exhaust note.
They sound like they do because they yanked the motor straight out of a truck, specifically the Magnum V10 optional on Ram 2500/3500s from 1994 to 2003.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:51 PM   #11
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They sound like they do because they yanked the motor straight out of a truck, specifically the Magnum V10 optional on Ram 2500/3500s from 1994 to 2003.
Actually the above is the snopes version.

Absolutely no common parts.
Lower compression.
Heavier reciprocating mass.
Redline, HP peak, and TQ peak are all at least 1,000 rpm lower.

From the book Dodge Viper by Daniel F. Carney:

Looking back, it seems astonishing that Team Viper was also building a radical new engine from a nearly clean sheet of paper, to a deadline pace. Ruling out the truck engine meant the team members had to build what they wanted themselves.

Said Francois Castaing "It was already April 1989. If we wanted the car to be ready by January 1992, we needed to really get going. But the timing for the truck engine was a year later. It also became obvious, when we looked at it more thoroughly, the weight of the iron engine was too high and the power we would get from it wouldn't be sporty enough." Francois was in charge of truck engineering at the time.

Said Roy Sjoberg , Team Viper's new executive engineer,"We rapidly ascertained, the truck guys and myself, that where we wanted a 6,200-rpm redline, the truck guys didn't really care to go over 4,200 rpm. They were interested in low-end torque, not horsepower at high-rpm levels where we were. They were not concerned about weight. Truckies don't like aluminum blocks. They're not as forgiving, and truck people like to have things that are pretty bulletproof.

"Not a lot could be learned from our truck V-10 development. Both engines were V-10s, but one was aluminum and one was iron; ours was sequential-fire individual-injected, and the truck's was group-injected, so it ended up having air pumps and things. We only needed EGR to meet the initial emission requirements, as well as a catalyst. The truckers had to put some other things on it. We ended up with the same dimension pushrod and that was it. But even there, we used a higher-grade material because of our power and rpm requirements."

In the end, there wasn't a single shared part with the Ram V-10 that was being built elsewhere within Chrysler.
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Old 05-11-2010, 01:58 PM   #12
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Very interesting...

I was always under the impression it was the truck engine architecture, in aluminum, with a Lamborghini designed head.

Good stuff to know.
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Old 05-11-2010, 02:33 PM   #13
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So I had lunch drive 2 today - FM2 '90 Miata

I love it more than ever now, more than the Viper for around town. When I 1st drove it after UFC all i could see was a highway and whatever the lights shone on. There was little to reference to as far as speed as you can't see any trees, or visual indicators as to your related movement and there were no cars to toy with.

Today in the sun and traffic it was great. I longed for red lights and cars to "race" - well really just traffic to compare to. That thing is a monster at 11.5 psi or whatever he has it set to with the Hydra. For you long time turbo guys that may be weaksauce but for my 2nd drive ever in a FI Miata it was great. 1st and 2nd are over quickly and nothing stood a chance (most nothings on the road anyways). I could see more power in 3rd and 4th was needed (remember I drove and ACR yesterday so I'm really biased).

His Afcos were great but on the street my stock Racelands are fine and I can't see upgrading for my DD right now (not a very fair comparo as i didn't have more than 15min with his car and never hit any corners)

On the highway I can see why you guys go built engines and higher boost. Either way I can't wait to get mine going !!
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I'd lust after a Viper if they didn't have the exhaust note of a box van.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
They sound like they do because they yanked the motor straight out of a truck, specifically the Magnum V10 optional on Ram 2500/3500s from 1994 to 2003.
Damn Sav I really thought road racers like you would appreciate vipers a little more than that. Personally that ******* truck engine claim is really the only problem some people have with vipers. I can't even recall how many times i've had to explain that it's just a myth. Maybe it's because I personally live with 2 but, the exhaust note is my favorite part. What really gets me is how different every viper sounds. Our Hennessy car sounds more like a traditional v8 than our 97' gts.

I've noticed that alot people on this board really don't like viper's at all. It's stange to me considering how similar they are. Not mechanically obviously, but both built and designed to be a driver's car with the bare bones minimum. Both are known for numerous racing victories(in different fields of competition obviously), so it really strikes me as odd that no one here seems to like/appreciate them at all.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:15 PM   #15
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Vipers are fugly. The styling is just trying too hard.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:18 PM   #16
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lol @ vipers for overheating in traffic, at the track, and breaking down in general all the god damn time. I usually don't care for the people who own them either, like the buy that parked in my rented awning at Hallett one year and told me the awning was his to rent and tried to give me $100 to go away (he was booted), or the guy who parked on my stuff at MSR-C a couple years ago and called me a child...but I love the way they sound and I love passing them on the track.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:32 PM   #17
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Oh well, I guess you can't please every one. After driving my first 1000+whp viper, everything else instantly became slow. I guess that's why i'm shooting for ridiculous numbers in the miata now.

@ Hustler: That break down thing seems weird to me, was it mechanical failures or driver neglect? Never had one single problem with either or my vipers. Not the daily or the 9 second car.

But, to each their own.

Sorry to the OP for the threadjack. I'm glad you had fun the miata and the viper. My two favorite cars on the planet.
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Old 05-11-2010, 03:49 PM   #18
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no problem.

Miatas & Vipers

I flew out to pick up my 02 SE and had to drive 8 hours home at night. I remember staring at the hood bump/shape in the Miata all night as I drove and it reminded me of when I drove his GTS years back. As I was being numbed by constant highway driving and staring at the hood I would tell myself I was in my mini-viper.

similar cars for layout, and fun driver experience.

My friend/boss has had lots of nice cars and still we both come back to the Miata for driving fun. Whoever gives or has given it a negative stigma has never driven one or is not in tune with driving. 10 minutes of even a stocker and you know you are in something that elevates the experience.

This year at work - I like the guy with truck that said is that your wifes car - you know they have no idea how to drive at anything more than 3/10ths which is about 7/10ths of their pickup. They have on occasion given it full throttle in a straight line (wowee)They need a ride in a boosted miata around a few corners afterwhich they will have dropped the stereotype - then a ride in a Viper and they will have dropped the excrement !
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:09 AM   #19
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Oh well, I guess you can't please every one. After driving my first 1000+whp viper, everything else instantly became slow. I guess that's why i'm shooting for ridiculous numbers in the miata now.

@ Hustler: That break down thing seems weird to me, was it mechanical failures or driver neglect? Never had one single problem with either or my vipers. Not the daily or the 9 second car.

But, to each their own.

Sorry to the OP for the threadjack. I'm glad you had fun the miata and the viper. My two favorite cars on the planet.
bottom line its a $$ thing for alot of us. vipers are so far out of our price range we cant justifiy beating on them like we do a miata. So the hatred or laothing may be a more apropriate term is realy just a coping mechanism. Either way most Fbodys are just to damn large for me to realy enjoy. I dont need room or cupholders, make the car as light as possible and then stuff in as much hp as you can find i say.
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:30 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by viperormiata View Post
Damn Sav I really thought road racers like you would appreciate vipers a little more than that. Personally that ******* truck engine claim is really the only problem some people have with vipers. I can't even recall how many times i've had to explain that it's just a myth. Maybe it's because I personally live with 2 but, the exhaust note is my favorite part. What really gets me is how different every viper sounds. Our Hennessy car sounds more like a traditional v8 than our 97' gts.
I appreciate and respect the Viper, I just don't want one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysle...#8.0_Viper_V10

Viper was an after-hours pet project. Chrysler didn't give them the budget to do a DOHC motor, they aren't going to give them budget to design a DIFFERENT 8 liter V10 from the ground up. All the parts are different but the core design is still out of a truck.
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