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Old 04-22-2008, 10:46 PM   #41
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wtf?
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Old 04-22-2008, 11:51 PM   #42
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I have to agree with the statement about most of these issues seeming to stem from QC/Communication...

As for me personally, I was most bitter about the $ I paid for labor which I never agreed to.

Frankly its a moot point by now, as you can see I never took it any further.

I guess there's 2 ways to read this thread...as the OP intended as a discussion not a rant. You could use it in to find potential problem areas with certain aspects of your business...Or as a "Begi bashing" thread..which it is not...

The words I think we're looking at here are "constructive criticism", or as previously stated a customer feedback thing.
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:53 PM   #43
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I've been contacted by several people with similar experiences with BEGi. This isn't a very exclusive club.

Here is my tale of woe:

I described my setup in detail: '05 MSM drivetrain in a '95 chassis, with FM (Blouch) compressor wheel upgrade, FM maf-less intake, FM-Link, 550 injectors, large intercooler, improved/more direct turbo to intercooler routing, Forge dv and a free flowing axle-back exhaust initially with a complete catback planned. BEGi was beginning to uncover creep with the separated gases downpipe on stock MSMs, so I asked if an SGDP was right for my setup, concerned about the compressor wheel upgrade. Stephanie said it was, so I ordered an MSM SGDP, but with the standard O2 bungs deleted and a wideband bung added down by the inlet to the cat. Stephanie said they did wideband bungs "all the time" for the MSM and knew where to put it.

I won't bother recounting all the BS about delays, just errors:

1) pipe was built (but I caught the error before shipping) with 3 O2 bungs.
2) pipe was built and shipped with standard bungs, installation hardware was not included, wideband kit had parts pilfered from it, extra flange was not shipped.
3) received pipe with proper single bung, but test fit to the turbo showed that the divider "tongue" was installed incorrectly: the pipe would not slide down over the studs. BEGi says every pipe is fit to their jigs before it is finished, but there is no evidence of shipping trauma. The tongue was installed wrong.
4) test fit of pipe to engine & trans out of the car indicated I might have problems with clearance at the diff (using stock MSM mid-pipe initially). Advised BEGi that their jigs might be off, they didn't think there was a problem. I sent pics showing how the vector of the downpipe was wrong, but no change in BEGi's thinking. When I got the powertrain into the car, the BEGi sgdp put the end of the midpipe HARD up against the diff, as I predicted.
5) tried to install wideband sensor, but the bung is aimed right at the casting boss the PPF mounts too. It lacks a full inch of clearance.

Corky issued a partial refund to cover local repair costs for another bung and adjusting the pipe to actually fit the car. Stephanie says it's all because I put an MSM drivetrain into a '95, ignoring that all of the parts other than the unibody (front and rear suspension, engine, motormounts, trans, PPF, diff, etc) that might affect the exhaust are from the MSM. Corky says the '95 content has no affect on the bad fit, Stephanie continues to say otherwise.

With the BEGi pipe on the car, boost spiked uncontrollably any time the car was under load and revs reached ~5k. I was running a 15psi diagnostic gauge at the time & the needle would be violently pegged against the stop at about 16 psi. Corky said I should restrict the exhaust to control boost.

I bought an FM dp which allowed mechanical boost control to settle at 10 psi. And the OEM midpipe fit like a glove.
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:35 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Bell View Post
We have yet to find...completely stainless flex joints
Best wishes to all,
Corky
Vibrant. I can sell them to you.
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Old 04-23-2008, 02:56 PM   #45
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To everyone reading this thread, I appreciate the feedback and the info has been passed on to everyone else here. Many customers have made suggestions in the past that have been implemented. Many have also sent e-mails with suggestions or corrections to instructions. I appreciate those and look at all of them. If we like it, we use it.

I also want to apologize ahead of time for the tone of the next note. I am happy to take criticism and suggestions, but I do not think that is what 95 MSM intends with his post. His pipe has been the topic of many threads on the MSM forum for over 14 months. So let me explain the situation from our perspective: he purchased one of our MSM downpipes for a conversion he was working on. What he neglects to mention is 1. We never have guaranteed a fit for a DP for something other than what it was intended/made for. 2. That he INSISTED on keeping the pipe. Corky wanted the pipe back, but he FLAT OUT REFUSED! So a refund for half the cost was issued for a pipe he got to keep, and currently uses, with the agreement that he let it go. This was Mark's idea and we agreed. 3. that he recently achieved boost control via porting the W/G on the MSM turbo. Per Corky's suggestion.

In our eyes, we made right by the situation.
Stephanie
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:11 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjernigan View Post
I'd love to be informed of correct bolt tightening for my downpipe. I was never provided instructions for it so I assumed there would be no issues though I did find issues in trying to assemble the parts in three different ways. That includes leaving nuts on the downpipe loose as well as the wastegate then inserting the tubes into the 3rd section slip joints and tightening things down. I was unable to find a method of assembly that worked no matter which order I assembled things in.
According to my sources...
First, Lay the downpipe in place and engage the studs at the front of the cat. Add nuts, but leave them loose. Push the two downpipe sections together and line up guides for the cross bolt. Insert the 1/4-20 x 4" hex bolt thru the guides on each downpipe segment. Install the exhaust manifold. Install the wastegate. Leave fasteners loose. Install turbo.

Tighten in this order:
1. Turbo to Downpipe and Wastegate
2. Downpipe to the Catalytic Converter
3. Wastegate to Manifold
4. Turbo to Manifold

Hope that helps.
Stephanie
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Old 04-23-2008, 04:18 PM   #47
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I'm not going to respond point by point to Stephanie's post, other than to say there are many inaccuracies and a lot of spin.

I do feel it is important to clarify what I went through to get it working (and remember, this is the pipe Stephanie recommended for my setup):

First, the wg was already significantly oversized when the pipe was first installed and failed to control boost. I described what I had done & Corky gave me no further insights.

I recently ported the throat of the turbo favoring flow into the wg port, enlarged the wg port further and installed a larger wg flapper valve plate. BEGi had absolutely no role in any of these changes. No first or second hand info, no inspiration, nothing.
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:15 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvalenziano View Post
I have to agree with the statement about most of these issues seeming to stem from QC/Communication...

As for me personally, I was most bitter about the $ I paid for labor which I never agreed to.

Frankly its a moot point by now, as you can see I never took it any further.

I guess there's 2 ways to read this thread...as the OP intended as a discussion not a rant. You could use it in to find potential problem areas with certain aspects of your business...Or as a "Begi bashing" thread..which it is not...

The words I think we're looking at here are "constructive criticism", or as previously stated a customer feedback thing.

In my view, anyone in my position that can't stand a measure of criticism needs to find a new kitchen. My leadership methods include self-flagellation (SP), A rounded off oak 2 x 4, and a few quiet moments. We screw up often enough that this keeps me both bruised and busy. Probably will never change.

What I view as constructive criticism I will take readily. A few other things can stick a bit in my craw.

So, the stickers:
1. A turbo we prepped for a gentleman down near the Everglades had fittings created in lower Slobovia and matched nothing known to Texans. With the decision on my part to spend the needed 4.5 hours and charge $75 for the job fell within my personal guidelines of the trust I thought I had earned. I think I actually enjoy a measure of trust to deliver sufficient value. In my view, that specific job is a solid piece of evidence.

2. After insisting it be sent back, Mr. Brandt chose the option of paying half and keeping the POS dnpipe.


So............ How is that list coming along?

Best wishes,
Corky
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:19 PM   #49
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TurboTim,
Need more input. send pic/size
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:27 PM   #50
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The ceramic coating on my manifold isn't shiny any more and there is some surface corrosion on my SS downpipe, can I have some money?
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:29 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Bell View Post
TurboTim,
Need more input. send pic/size
http://www.verociousmotorsports.com/...Flex-Couplings

Probably cheaper places to buy from, but I have had good dealings with those guys in the past.
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:33 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
The ceramic coating on my manifold isn't shiny any more and there is some surface corrosion on my SS downpipe, can I have some money?
We already talked about that one, your salty roads destroyed your coating and stainless finish. I wonder if a wire brush on a drill would clean it up nice again. The manifold however is a lost cause unless you got it blasted and coated again.
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:36 PM   #53
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Yeah I know, I was just looking for some easy money I can't keep selling my body to get through college.
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:38 PM   #54
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Corky, you offered compensation for fixing the bad wideband bung and fixing the alignment of the dp. There was never any discussion about it being a final resolution. If you might recall, I even accepted a smaller refund than you offered. I also made it clear that my preference was to have a working (no creep/spike) SGDP (the car had yet to be started up). Neither you nor Stephanie ever INSISTED that I return the pipe, nor did BEGi ever issue a return tag to have it shipped back. You made vague statements that you would like it back for reasons that you would not disclose.
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Old 04-23-2008, 05:48 PM   #55
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Mark, Surely your memory is better than mine as I never had one in the first place. But something is banging around in there that suggests I stated roughly/precisely that I wanted the POS pipe back because I did not want any begi parts on your car. I tend to call that insistant, and clear.

Please forgive me, we all have better things to do. You may have the last word and we'll leave it at that. We'll cross paths again sometime and perhaps we'll both fare better.
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Old 04-23-2008, 06:04 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky Bell View Post
1. A turbo we prepped for a gentleman down near the Everglades had fittings created in lower Slobovia and matched nothing known to Texans. With the decision on my part to spend the needed 4.5 hours and charge $75 for the job fell within my personal guidelines of the trust I thought I had earned. I think I actually enjoy a measure of trust to deliver sufficient value. In my view, that specific job is a solid piece of evidence.
Again, it wasn't the dollar amount it was the fact that we never discussed being charged. I agree, $75 for an oddball situation to be rectified, in a quality manner was justified.

A simple call saying, FYI we've check it out and need to do about $75 worth of labor to get it fixed, do you WANT us to do this?
Instead, I received a call saying it's taken care of AFTER you had already done the work and sent it back days later. Not to mention the conversation we had over the phone left off that either I am wrong about the turbo I have, or you've never seen my turbo which you highly doubted. We left off if I was incorrect about my turbo, I'd have to eat the cost to fix it. If it's somethign you've never seen, you'd cover it, which again you were sure wasn't the case.
The result was a quality, functional piece which I am happy about. However, I should not have been charged without being given an authorization for you to do so, and an explanation as to why it became my fault. I already paid the full price of your product, plus the shipping back and forth to resolve the issue.
Again, I was not bashing Begi, but sharing my experience. And as I stated the end product seems to be (not yet tested) of good quality and functional. You replied with your interpretation, and I'm following up with mine.
If the simple notion/practice of making a customer aware of a charge before you are put it on his credit card doesn't sit well with you, it is what it is...
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Old 04-23-2008, 06:07 PM   #57
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95MSM, stop your banter. You issues are obviously over, long gone, and far different than many of the others we're talking about here. It seems both you and BEGI have talked this over many times on different forums and I'm pretty sure I've read it elsewhere at least once.

Corky, I sent my turbine housing in unknowing that the S5 kit was designed for a T3 anyway. My turbine housing is a standard Garrett T3 so where do the fitment issues in my downpipe come from? Can the downpipe not be redesigned so that it has more clearance between the two pipes so this kind of thing doesn't take place?

Even if it means an earlier reintroduction of the WG tube. I know you preach flow and proper swaging frequently but the later introduction of the WG tube offers how much benefit over an earlier introduction that has less problems when it comes time for install?
I would much rather have received a downpipe that didn't have the sugaring on the inside of the tubing with correctly ported inlet outlet than a downpipe that has fitment issues that supposedly flows better than a greased fat kid in a waterslide.
If you reintroduced the WG before the slip joint then there would be one less connection that could possibly warp during welding or be misalligned in the jig. I would sacrifice the 2-3%(WAG) of linear flow that the later introduction offers if it meant having 1 less defect per every 5 downpipes. (Or however many you have problems with)
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Old 04-23-2008, 06:14 PM   #58
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Deleted, per moderator's request.
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Old 04-23-2008, 06:17 PM   #59
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Corky, since you're here, may I please pick your brain (just a little)?

I ordered a S5 manifold and downpipe from the sweet and ever patient Stephanie on the 3rd of this month. The day previous, I had a very pleasant conversation with you regarding your turbo motorcycle, which you may recall.
If I may,
  1. What do you think would be a good turbo for my build? I'll obviously have a S5 mani and downpipe. I'll also have a tial 38mm gate, on a BP bored to ~1.9L, a 99 head with an MSM intake cam and adjustable gears, 6 speed trans, and a 3.31 final drive with a RX7 clutch LSD. Jason @ enthuza is going to build me a sick exhaust. I'm looking for appx 400whp. However, streetablilty and midrange torque is more important to me than overall power. The turbo I was looking at was the Garrett T3/T04E with 50 trim compressor. Was at first leaning towards a .64A/R turbine... but now I'm wondering if I'll want a .48 for spool. Perhaps I can get something along the lines of a .48 stageIII. Comments greatly appreciated.
  2. Should I have my manifold ceramic coated? Is the coating cosmetic only, or does it actually contain heat inside the manifold?
  3. I'm probably going to need to get some other odd bits from you, such as coolant re-route items. What was the final outcome with the reroute; did you end up making a block off plate for the front water neck? IMO, that's the most ideal way.
This is my build thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16608
as to not de-rail this thread too much, I'll move your response over there.

Thanks
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Old 04-23-2008, 06:27 PM   #60
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cjernigan: Have you tried the correct tightening procedure to see if it solves your issue? It is available in their manual on the website.
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