New car for "Older Drivers"
 

Wife and I are looking to replace our Camry with a vehicle that will take us into our 70's. Similar price range as existing.

Usually buy used. Don't really need performance because I get my enjoyment from the Miata.

Accord and Camry come to mind, but someone mentioned Forester.

What do MT say?

How close are you to 70 now?

Wife is 60. We tend to buy and keep.

as a huge subaru nerd I will always advise to get a forester :)

however, you mentioned not needing anything fun, so that pretty much rules out subaru's. unless you need awd and a great year-rounder in bad weather. also - a forester is not exactly in the same class as a accord/camry

I have always been a camry fan when it comes to commuters but I haven't heard good things about the latest.

ford fusion and Mazda 6 are both good looking and practical car IMO.

Kia optima is another one I'd consider.

I just traded my 09 Mazda 3 hatch for a '13 cx-5. It's AWD, skyactive 2.0, 6 speed auto. I've been getting like 29-30 mpg's on 87 octane cruising to work and back (50 mile round trip). It's a touring package, blah blah blah, I like it so far.

I'm a buy and keep kind of guy too.
I bought a fiat 500 for the wife and have put 100k on it already. It's pretty fun to drive for a little fwd car, gets around 36 mpg and is surprisingly spacious up front (I am 6' 190lbs and I fit just fine).
The best part about it is the extended warrantee Fiat offers. It costs a little more, but ours expires in 2094 and covers anything mechanical, including things like window motors. They even tow the car if necessary and give you a rental.
The only issue we've had so far has been both wheel bearings going bad, which was covered by the warrantee. They gave me a challenger as a rental.
Also, both headlights will burn out at exactly the same time every 50k.
If you're planning on hauling passengers, it's possible, but they aren't going to be very comfortable.
I'm not sure if that's what you're looking for, but it might be worth a look.

It does snow here so awd would be utilized from time to time. Desires are softish ride, lumbar support, good visibility, dual climate control, not low to ground like the Miata (she doesn't ride in it). Not much else is a strong factor.

Cx-5 is silky smooth, has adjustable lumbar support, I'm sure you could get dual climate control as an option. I'm not telling you to run out and buy one, but it should definately be on your test drive list.
I also own a cx-7. That's 2.3 liter AWD turbo and it rips big time compared to the cx-5. There are sacrifices though...cx-7 requires premium fuel and gets like 20mpg's, while the cx-5 runs the cheap stuff and gets 30mpg's. cx-5 is pretty much a redesigned cx-7 that's way more efficient and has all the new bells and whistles.

Oh, and must be at least a real 5 passenger. Some good suggestions to think on.

My current DD is a CX-5, which is really pretty good for what it is. Comfy, OK ride, decent mileage and handling is good for what is basically an Accord on stilts. I bought it because of the AWD and mileage combo, but it's growing on me.

I've had 3 Accords in the last 20 or so years, and no complaints. Near as I can tell, the big difference between Camry and Accord is that the Camry is more old-American-car soft. Around here it's easy to find a low-miles used Accord pretty cheap, which is why I've had three.

My brother has a new 6, and is liking it a lot more than the 08 Accord it replaced. No used ones yet, though.

The Accord Sport is touted as the best all around value in new cars today. You could find a 1 year old used example but it likely won't save you that much over new. Don't let the "Sport" trim fool you, it rides just as nice as any other accord.

A guy I work with just traded his A4 for a new Accord Sport, he is very pleased

5 passenger definitely rules out the 500, although it is surprisingly good in the snow. I did try out the 4 door model and wasn't really impressed by it at all.
CX5 would definitely be on my list to test drive.

wat?

Speaking of extended warranties...my cx-5 is a certified preowned. 7 year/ 100,000 mile warranty on drivetrain.

For real. It's awesome, especially if you plan on keeping the vehicle forever.
I think Chrysler offers (or did) basically the same thing. I think it's called max care.

Driving a Legacy. Also drove an Outback, Accord, and CRV. Like the Outback best so far. Need to drive the Mazdas.

Yes, you do need to drive the Mazdas.

CX-5 is solid. Go with a touring. Save money. Plus since you own a Miata, extra $500 off any Mazda for owner loyalty.

If you don't need AWD, the new 6 is freaking sweet. Best gasoline non-hybrid MPG in its class, sweet drive, great to look at... just get a simpler model, a Sport Automatic would be perfect. Higher trims get too complex IMO.

Edit: Source: I'm an internet sales manager at a Mazda/buick/GMC/subaru/nissan/toyota/scion dealership.

My sister in law has a '14 Mazda 6, Ed is on point, its a pretty nice car.

Every old person drives a Toyota Avalon.

We may be old, but don't have to look that way. This whole search of a car started when I saw a newer 6. We had thought we would keep the Camry another 6-7 years. Also, my daughter needs to update from her Civic, so it's a trickle-down.

Next on list will be Mazdas.

That's cool, but then thread title really isn't relevant. Mazda 6's are just good cars for anyone at any age.

I'm happy with my CX-5, but I frequently need to climb a badly-plowed street during a New England winter. If I were in your area, the 6 would be my preference for the better handling and mileage. As for the Subaru and Accord - if you need an auto, the CVT is a disqualifier for me.

For what reason?

OK, now I get your drift. As an engineer, I can be a little socially slow, and with no visual clues, even more so.

That's a lot of +1's for the 6.

Is it not true that even though the direct injection, high CR engine is new in 2014 in the US; it has been out in other markets of a couple of years?

I've had a few rentals with CVT's - mostly Nissans - and found the seat-of-the-pants feel disconcerting. They've felt sort of like an aging auto that's starting to slip, "motorboating" is a term I've heard. My neighbor just bought a new Outback, and it bugged her but she figures she'll get used to it. Go deep into the throttle, the motor jumps right to the torque peak and stays there until the car catches up. Just one more degree of car control I've surrendered. Downshifting and hill descent options seemed pretty much at the discretion of some software engineer.

Newer ones might be better, and I know they can be more fuel-efficient. Just not for me.

My wife and I are in the same age bracket. She drives a 2012 Forester (her 2nd) and we'll likely keep it another 8-9 years (we buy and keep).

She likes it but the newer ones have the CVT and better mileage.

My youngest daughter just bought an Escape and it impresses the hell out of me. I like the Ecoboost system.

I think the CX5 and the Escape would've been the same platform but for the split between Ford/Mazda.

Check out the Toyota Prius - seriously. I just bought a new 2014 and negotiated 5k off sticker. Its quiet, comfortable, and gets 45-60 mpg. My wife has an 04 with 170k on it, the only mechanical issue has been the water pump. It went out after 100k miles and Toyota paid for it under a recall.

Have you looked at the hyundai genesis or the kia optima?

I'm not sure how long it's been available in other markets, but the DI, 13:1 compression mill has been available stateside since 2011 (2012 model year) in the Mazda 3 as a 2 liter, and the 2.5 is just a scaled up version of that engine.


Nissan CVT =! Subaru CVT. The subarus are jumpy off the line, but once underway are smooth, efficient, and extremely unintrusive. Engaging? No. A little rubber-bandy under full throttle? Yes, but only over 65 mph. The only vehicle I've felt it's kinda annoying is in the XV Crosstrek just because the engine is pretty overmatched in that car. In a Forester with the 2.5 or impreza with the 2.0 it feels nice and smooth. Driving a Nissan Altima or Maxima or, heaven forbid, a cube after driving a subaru CVT just goes to show how bad Nissan screwed it up.

Much as I despise Toyotas and their horrible materials quality and their incredibly dull image and overwrough styling.... I have to agree, and I find myself making that recommendation more and more lately. the Prius is a hugely compelling option if you really don't GAF about driving enjoyment.

Prius, lol. 45-60 mpg? Probably. But they still remind me of those cardboard taxi cabs from the original Total Recall.

What can I say, I like it. Its every bit as good as a daily driver as the miata is as a mountain carver.

I have no interest in those brands. May be unfounded, but true nonetheless.

We drove Camry and Mazda6 this evening.

Camry: Nice ride. Wife liked the seats and visibility, as well as electric seat. Could get the LE for just under $20K out the door, no trade. However, she asked, "if we are just going to get another Camry, why not just keep ours?"

Mazda6: Also a good ride. However, in the Sport, the seat adjustments were hard for her to make (especially height). She did not like the visibility, nor the fit of the seats. 6 is out.

Front runner is still Outback, though I expect I will have to pay quite a bit more for one than the price of the Camry.

Drive the new Fusion. My second choice for a new sedan behind the 6.

we love our '10 fully loaded prius.

its anything but "fun" though

A friend at work bought one in, EDIT 2012, and the XMSN was bad from the start. Ford would do nothing, so he sold it for a big loss. Have they gotten beyond that?

What would be the preferred year?

18: Prius is a bit pricey I think.

Is there a general reason to not go Outback? Not sporty, I know.

Not really any reason not to go outback.

Its just not as good on gas as the others, and not as comfy as some of the others.

All around a pretty solid car though.

2013+ fusions, the new ones with the aston-esque grille, are quite sweet. Really smooth and quiet but not boaty. I'd recommend the SE with the 2.5 4 cyl. You'll save money up front and end up with better overall fuel economy than ecoboost. Ecovoost can do well on highway but the turbo is thirsty around town.

The new 2015 Outbacks and Legacies seem sweet but I haven't driven one yet. I'd go forester over Outback though, just my opinion... The new 2014+ Foresters are really nice.

Also: there are SCREAMING lease deals available on Prius and Prius plug ins if you shop a bit, and nice discounts on purchasing too. If you like the Prius, shop them a bit and you might be surprised.

Thanks. I will add the Fusion at least.

One further, general question. I think all the cars we've looked at (save the Camry) had either black or a sandy-white interior. I personally like the light colored ones. Wife is scared of stains. We would prefer a grey or brown, neutral color; but those don't seem to be available.

Will I be sorry if I push her into the white, cloth seats? I.E. will they stain and I get one of those, "I told you so" sighs?

Or will they likely be treated to resist staining?

I hate light colored interiors, especially in cloth. It is very difficult to keep clean, and no matter how careful you are, you will get stains.

Treated? Most likely no.
Can you buy stuff to "treat" em? sure

It entirely depends on how clean you and your wife are.

Buy a couple of cans of Scotchguard, and soak the crap out of the seats, especially the bottoms. Let dry thoroughly, and then do it again. They will be damn near waterproof after that.

What about two-tone? The Fiat has balck seat and steering wheel, but the dash and all of the trim is tan. It looks really good IMO, and you don't have to worry about the two most stain prone areas (seats/ steering wheel).

This method works very well.

I find it interesting that everyone likes the prius. I drove one for a week for business and it made me want to kill myself. It couldn't get out of its own way and it was so bland. I preferred the RWD impala over the prius because even though it was also bland, floaty, and handled like a bloat it at least had some grunt to it. I think my favorite rental was the new altima that I drove. The seats were very comfortable, the engine had some grunt when I needed it, and it had a nice ride that still handled well.

Because most people look for gas mileage and creature comforts/gizmos in their "other" cars rather than grunt.

If OP was looking for grunt this would be a completely different convo.

.....Though it does sound like OP wants something more "fun" than a prius so that convo is pretty much over anyway.

BTW: I know its way out of the price range, but I really like the new FXT

I understand power not being a priority but when it is so wheezy that I feel uncomfortable pulling out into traffic when its anything but all clear that is an absolute no go for me. Nothing else about the car made up for it either. It wasn't particularly comfortable, the inside wasn't very nice, it looks like garbage, it drove like shit, and there was no technology I wouldn't have access to in a base kia. The only thing it has going for it is MPG and that is just not enough.

I'm not going to derail the OP's thread attempting to refute that since he clearly isn't interested on one, so we'll just let it go.

BTW just a random comment:

my in laws have a 13 corolla and sister in law has a 14 camry, and I believe Jason already made a whole thread about this, but:

WHAT THE CRAP is up with the throttle mapping on these new cars?

I mean, its beyond retarded. The first 5% throttle makes the car LURCH forward like you're half throttling it, and then you are rewarded with a big fat NOTHING until the very last 5% of the throttle when the car actually goes WOT.

If test driving new cars, this would be something that'd be a deal breaker for me.
It could possibly be a torque converter lock-up engagement issue, I don't know. All I know is its nearly impossible to drive either of the above without looking like a complete retard.

^all the new Subaru's are the same way and Toyota's have been that way for years, especially on lower-power models. I'm sure they do it to mask the fact that the car is gutless. Lurch = power, oh look how hard I come out of the hole by just breathing on the throttle so much power.

But then you hit the chasm and nobody is fooled.

It does annoy the crap out of many people though. I hear it all the time on test drives. "Why does it do that??"

The Mazda's don't do it, and neither do Fords or VWs :)

My 2005 Expedition has something similar. The throttle is mapped to torque, not plate position. To start smoothly is almost impossible.

I let my wife do all the driving on these tests, so I just thought she was being indecisive on starts.

I did a bit of internet comparison between the Prius V and the Outback. They actually seem to be similar (other than the obvious HYBRID). Outback has 2 pluses: AWD and electric driver's seat. I will have to go to back to the Toyota dealer to look at the other aspects, visibility, ride, and to see if we care about the seat being manual. Some have reported that the Prius V has adequate power.

This has been an interesting quest for me. I've only bought 1 car new, but with the inflated prices of used cars these days, I am surprising my wife and myself and mostly looking for new.

On many of the cars we are looking at, at the trim levels of interest, it's Charcoal or Bone. (the words vary, the colors; not so much). That's it.

Temporary Conclusion:
First, thanks for all the input.
Second, we have decided to put the $$ into the house and drive the Camry a few more years. Surprise surprise, the estimate on the work we wanted done was higher than the funds we had set aside.
Third, Outback is still in the lead.

Monday, we will be picking up our 2018 Outback Premium with Eyesight, power lift gate, and dimming exterior mirrors. 2.5 flat 4. Silver with black cloth.
That ticked the boxes that were important to Heidi and me, and final price below $30K.

Second new car we ever purchased. Hope we like is as well as we think we will.

Will check for factory cloth treatment with water. Either immediately, or when otherwise needed, we plan to treat with 303 Fabric Guard.

Have you already driven it?

Yes I have. I'm not sure why you ask. We drove a 6 and a 4. I also calculated #/HP of that car, my Expedition, and my 4 cylinder Camry.. W/P ratio is same as the Camry that has served us well for 10 years.

They seem to have improved the control on the throttle and CVT from older versions. Take-off is smooth and well controlled, not jumpy.

Floor it and the CVT does what it should, but delivers torque from the offset, before the engine gets up to high RPM. Thus, not so much sling-shot or rubber-banding that I have heard about. Or maybe I just expect a CVT to act like a CVT?

The 6 was a bit smoother / quieter on the highway.

I went in thinking we'd get the Touring at just under $40K, with the 6. The extras were not worth 33% more $ to us. I still think the Limited is no man's land, but I may be just strange, because that is their big seller.

Anyway, what prompted your question?

We own a 2016 Legacy. I absolutely hate throttle mapping, numb response, and basically everything about the engine/power output.

But all that pales in comparison to how much I hate the CVT mapping/programming.

I really really really hope they changed/improved it for 2018, because I cannot imagine having a more terribly programmed transmission.

It "shifts" like a normal auto, which really isn't a shift, but a stupid sudden drop in rpm that's spaced WAY far apart, and a power cut to make it seem like it "shifted". What results is a car that is jerky on shifts, for no reason whatsoever. A cvt is a cvt. It can try to be a "normal auto" but it's not, and that's not a bad thing. A cvt is supposed to be seamless, or at least smooth enough that it doesn't disrupt the way the car drives.

Then there's the huge delay in power delivery if you're in a really low throttle situation and suddenly floor it. You know, like in an emergency situation. It will do nothing for a long time, then finally "downshift" and throw the throttle body wide open resulting in a power surge. Except when you're not going WOT, but say go from 5% throttle to about 30% throttle, it does the same thing. There is absolutely zero correlation between your right foot and the power output. it does what it wants when it wants and only takes the drivers inputs as a suggestion that it seldom takes.

I could go on and on, but the bottom line is: their tuning/mapping is horrendous. I'm sure they'll fix it over the years, and it's highly likely that they already did for 2018, but I'll be selling our legacy because I can't stand driving it for this very reason alone.

Just my .02
(you might want to take it on a lonnnnnng test drive and make absolutely sure it won't bother you).

Our 2014 mazda 6 is a 500% better at all of the above.

Im gonna say Toyota Avalon or the Lexus ES350 (which is the same thing only nicer and quieter)

I have 2 daughters, ages 7 and 9... already wondering what their first cars will be. Our middle-class status means I'll probably be able to buy them something used but decent that really only has to last 8 years max (assuming we get them a car at 16 that needs to last through a Masters Degree).

I had always thought Volvo 240 wagon was the answer, but after owning a Celica and a 4Runner for 10 years, I've changed my mind. If I had to do this today for them, the requirements will be simple... boring, 25mpg, AWD, not small, not big, not a car, and DEAD NUTS RELIABLE for the next 100k.

No matter where my brain takes me, I always come back to RAV4. And as I read this thread, I realize that when I turn 60, I'll be in the market for the exact same thing in a DD.

Good luck with the new Subie... let us know which aftermarket exhaust you go with!

The previous generation RAV4, fine. The new RAV, hard pass.

The previous model's V6 got better mileage in C/D testing than the new 4 cylinder. The new RAV is a disappointment IMO. Forester or CX5 FTW.

Everytime I see the newer Mazda6 I like them more and more. They look awesome and I'm contemplating having a car payment for once when the new one comes out! Recently I had a long range shooting match at the top of the state and had a Altima as a rental car- it was definitely nice, good visibility, nice interior, power bla bla bla. I liked it much better then the rental Dart, Camry, Malibu and fusion I drove in the last year. Put about 500 miles on that thing and it drove fine, but long term? I don't know if it would make that cut though it did seem pretty solid. Me and the wife have been looking for a replacement for her 05 Honda pilot that we have had for 8 years now and I'm leaning towards the 6 or the cx-5... I drove a '14 cx-9 because she still thinks she might want that third row and it was nice but I couldn't see crap - blind spot city! The mirrors were only ok but man having all that peripheral vision blocked by stuff is really annoying. The Mazda3 was great too, but I have kids in car seats / boosters still so more room is needed... I'm still trying to justify one though. Subaru's are great but I only have experience with the 2.5 my girlfriend put in a snow bank/ tree ( oh my god what 25 in the snow can do!) And an 04 wrx wagon that you could watch the gas needle move as you drove. Good luck on the car search